Canadian Forces helicopter capabilities (from pending Africa peace mission thread)

[McG]

VNE, for those unaware, is "Velocity Never Exceed".

I assume that is an engineering constraint based on a number of factors relating to the aircraft?  A point where parts of the blade exceed the speed of sound, or a point where the aircraft pulls itself apart?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

VNE is a sum of a lot of factors. Retreating blade stall can be part of it. So can the advancing blade going supersonic and losing efficiency.

At some point, the aerodynamic forces on the hull become such that you cannot add anymore power to go much faster.

Gearboxes can usually only absorb so much power from the engines, as well.

 

[suffolkowner]

Is all the above not why the US Marines went with the UH-1Y?

http://www.casr.ca/mp-griffon-soa-helicopter.htm

 

[daftandbarmy]

Apaches couldn't match Chinook speed in Afghanistan, not much can. The Chinook is an odd combination of power, speed, size and agility.

So, just like me then?

 

[The Bread Guy]

So, just like me then?

Well, as far as the "odd combination" goes, anyway ...  >

 

[MilEME09]

For those that work with the Griffons, whats our capability in terms of arming them for escort duty? my understanding is our options are C6, .60, or minigun.

 

[McG]

VNE is a sum of a lot of factors. Retreating blade stall can be part of it. So can the advancing blade going supersonic and losing efficiency.

At some point, the aerodynamic forces on the hull become such that you cannot add anymore power to go much faster.

Gearboxes can usually only absorb so much power from the engines, as well.

So if I want a faster helicopter, do I get that with more blades?  Recognizing of course that with more blades I probably need a more powerful engine, my power linkages will all have to be stronger to support the increased forces, I will have to carry more fuel or compromise endurance, and elements of the air-frame itself may need to be strengthened ... and as I am adding all this weight there is probably some point of diminishing returns where my aircraft stops getting faster and/or starts loosing other performance strengths?

Maybe I'll just leave this sort of good idea stuff to an actual aerospace engineer.

 

[PuckChaser]

G2G: Is there a plan/project to mid life upgrade the Griffon to the newer engines that you're aware of?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

So, just like me then?

 

[SupersonicMax]

Vne is normally a structural type of issue with some buffer.  Either dynamic pressure or often, flutter.  You can't change it unless you modify structure.

In terms of new engines increasing the max speed of the Griffon, it could increase the max speed in hot/high environments where you have more torque available, provided the transmission is matched.

I don't think using VNE was appropriate but it defenitely would have potential to increase maximum level speed at max rated torque.

 

[Kirkhill]

I guess it depends on how we define a helicopter and how complex you want the solution to become

https://sites.google.com/site/worldfastcar/fastest-helicopter-in-the-world

"Traditional" Helicopters - Single rotor

Griffon - 260 kmh
Cormorant - 278 kmh
Apache - 293 kmh (Vne 365 kmh)
Lynx 324 kmh

Twin Rotors

Chinook - 315 kmh
Kamov KA50 - 315 kmh (Vne 350 kmh)

Compound

Sikorsky X2 - 460 kmh
Eurocopter X3 - 472 kmh

Hybrid/VTOL

V22 Osprey - 509 kmh

 

[Good2Golf]

G2G: Is there a plan/project to mid life upgrade the Griffon to the newer engines that you're aware of?

PC, in short, yes-ish...although not sure if the timelines won't need updating. 

Griffon Limited Life Extension project.

Griffon Limited Life Extension

In-Service Support

Objective

The project will extend the life of the CH-146 Griffon beyond the current Estimated Life Expectancy so that the aircraft can continue to be operationally relevant and remain a vital contributor to the readiness of the Canadian Army and the Canadian Special Operations Force Command units well into the future. The extension will bridge the gap until a replacement capability is acquired through the Tactical Reconnaissance Utility Helicopter project.

Requirements

The project will replace obsolete cockpit instrumentation and radios with components that are supportable to 2030 and possibly beyond.  It may also include new digitally controlled engines as a package. Adaptation and integration of existing avionics and electronic flight instruments in the aircraft will enable an extension of the life of the Griffon weapon system.  The flight simulators will be modified to conform to the fleet.  Finally, the project will ensure integrated logistic support, supply of initial spares and training.

Preliminary Estimate

$500 million to $1.5 billion

Anticipated Timeline

2016
  - Definition Approval

2018
  - Implementation Approval
  - Request for Proposal Release
  - Contract Award

2024
  - Final Delivery

Point of Contact:

Director Air Requirements
Phone: 613-944-3293

 

[Good2Golf]

So if I want a faster helicopter, do I get that with more blades?  Recognizing of course that with more blades I probably need a more powerful engine, my power linkages will all have to be stronger to support the increased forces, I will have to carry more fuel or compromise endurance, and elements of the air-frame itself may need to be strengthened ... and as I am adding all this weight there is probably some point of diminishing returns where my aircraft stops getting faster and/or starts loosing other performance strengths?

Maybe I'll just leave this sort of good idea stuff to an actual aerospace engineer.

MCG, in general, it ain't going to get any faster than when they first made it... 

I don't think using VNE was appropriate but it defenitely would have potential to increase maximum level speed at max rated torque.

???

What would be more appropriate?

Regards
G2G