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Canadian soldiers return to Kandahar

word around here (and we're the ones supplying 031s) is fairly grim. Not enough bayonets to protect the other trades. The boys are going to be burned out within 8 weeks. It's looking more and more ridiculous to me with every day. The grand poobahs seem determined to fill bodybags pointlessly.
 
Armymedic said:
And why Khandahar, why not Herat, or Mazer-a- Sharef?
We are late from an Op Enduring Freedom perspective but not so much from an ISAF perspective.  Not sure how much we can discuss about ISAF expansion, etc here.  Probably best not to...

There are no OPSEC issues with ISAF expansion.  It has been extensively briefed (UNCLAS) in an open forum in Kabul.  Herat is being discussed as part of Phase II ISAF expansion, whereby the Italians or the Spanish will put in a PRT (I am dated by a couple of months on this).  Apparently, Iran was opposed to having Spain so close to its border, and that has caused a bit of a delay while the Italians decide what they want to do.  MeS is UK.

Canada has been talking about Kandahar for quite a while.  Any deployment there will (initially at least) be under TF BRONCO and the US-led coalition - vastly different from ISAF (in a good way, IMHO).

The grand poobahs seem determined to fill bodybags pointlessly.

I strongly suggest that the "bodybag" talk needs to stop, particularly in the absence of orders, a recce, or a definitive operational plan.  The recce will determine a good deal of the deployment, as will the political direction that will inevitably determine what we're actually doing.

(quantity removed) 031s...*snip*   16 hour days are expected.

This IS too much information for this forum, at the present time anyway.   I don't mean to be the OPSEC police, bu there should be no talk of numbers and tasks, please.   You may wish to edit your post.

Cheers,

TR
 
FWIW most from my end are looking forward to the southward move

ANYTHING to get out from ISAF and the wishywashy way they do business
 
Teddy Ruxpin said:
I don't mean to be the OPSEC police, bu there should be no talk of numbers and tasks, please.  You may wish to edit your post.

I disagree.  You should.. and so should everyone else.  I applaud you.

We do have to be careful here.. it is the net.

(mind you.. that whole pushup thread .... that would bore any enemy to death)
 
paracowboy said:
word around here (and we're the ones supplying 031s) is fairly grim. Not enough bayonets to protect the other trades. The boys are going to be burned out within 8 weeks. It's looking more and more ridiculous to me with every day. The grand poobahs seem determined to fill bodybags pointlessly.

You guys are too grim...who says it will be Canadian Bayonets securing this base?

Thats why there are good people here training the ANA...
 
paracowboy said:
word around here (and we're the ones supplying 031s) is fairly grim. Not enough bayonets to protect the other trades. The boys are going to be burned out within 8 weeks. It's looking more and more ridiculous to me with every day. The grand poobahs seem determined to fill bodybags pointlessly.

I have no doubt the element with the PRT will be focussed on D&S related tasks (similar to what happened on ATHENA Roto 2, 3, and 4).  Burned out?  Possibly, but, hopefully your leaders will keep you focussed on your actual mission and not allow mission creep.  I echo Armymedics comments about you not being out there by yourself (ANA) and protection is not just an infantry responsibility.  Remember the PRTs not there to chase Mr Taliban....

 
"but rather to the southeast, maybe 30 clicks. Right in the middle of the 'badlands,' said  one Col. familiar with the area."

Where you will see  my Coyote tracks from some of our "Pushing out the bubble" patrols in the spring of 2002.

You are going to love the biblical scenery.

Tom
 
I strongly suggest that the "bodybag" talk needs to stop, particularly in the absence of orders, a recce, or a definitive operational plan.  The recce will determine a good deal of the deployment, as will the political direction that will inevitably determine what we're actually doing.
well, the phrase I used about filling bodybags wasn't direscted strictly towards this particular goat-screw specifically, but rather towards Parliament's and NDHQ's apparent attitude towards the CF in general. You know, little things like lowering standards, cheaping out on training, flying death-traps, submarines that....

Make ya a deal, I'll stop talking about my dead friends when our "Leadership" pulls it's collective head out of it's collective ass.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
 
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/Newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=1660

News Release
Canada Expands Security and Reconstruction Efforts in Afghanistan

NR-05.035 - May 16, 2005

OTTAWA â “ Canada is reaffirming its strong diplomatic, development and defence commitment to Afghanistan by extending its military presence and deploying a Provincial Reconstruction Team (PRT).

This fall, Canadian Forces Camp Julien in Kabul will close and CF assets will move to Kandahar. This will facilitate the deployment in early 2006 of a brigade headquarters and an army task force, expected to remain in theatre respectively for a period of nine and 12 months. This increase of Canada's military contribution will strengthen the security situation in Afghanistan. These forces will also play a key role in accelerating the expansion of the ISAF mission in southern Afghanistan, expected to occur gradually in 2006, during which the Canadian PRT, initially part of the Operation Enduring Freedom coalition, will transfer to NATO leadership.

Canada will also deploy a Canadian-led PRT to Kandahar, in southern Afghanistan, for a period of about 18 months beginning in August 2005 . This team will bring together CF personnel, civilian police, diplomats, and aid workers in an integrated Canadian effort to reinforce the authority of the Afghan government in and around Kandahar and will assist in the stabilization of the region.

As such, Canada will extend the mandate of its reconnaissance squadron already in Kabul until late this year with the fifth deployment to Operation ATHENA later this summer. In doing so, the Canadian Forces ( CF) will continue to provide the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) with valuable intelligence , situational awareness, and will help facilitate the Afghan election process.

â Å“This commitment is consistent with our new international and defence policies, which demonstrate Canada's emphasis on bringing stability and humanitarian relief to fragile states,â ? said Defence Minister Bill Graham. â Å“With this commitment, Canada is assuming a leadership role in paving the way for a secure, democratic and self-sustaining Afghanistan.â ?

â Å“Canada's recognized leadership role in Afghanistan is being increased,â ? said Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew. â Å“This initiative is a genuine demonstration of an integrated approach in line with our new International Policy, between Foreign Affairs, CIDA, the Canadian Forces and the RCMP. This unique approach will assist Afghanistan in its efforts to become a stable, democratic and self-sustaining state which never again serves as a haven for terrorists.â ?

â Å“ Sustainable development requires security,â ? said International Cooperation Minister Aileen Carroll. â Å“The PRT will work to stabilize the Kandahar region and, in turn, help development efforts to flourish.â ?

The specific details of this strong commitment to Afghanistan will be determined in consultation with our allies, partners and other government departments.
 
Guess that means we're good to go.

They usually don't do press releases until everythings confirmed... *bites tongue*
 
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/EdmontonSun/News/2005/02/14/930500-sun.html
Operation Kandahar
Troop commitment to almost doubleMon, February 14, 2005
AP

MUNICH, Germany -- Canada will nearly double the number of troops it has in Afghanistan by this summer and is considering sending a combat brigade to the Kandahar region early next year, Defence Minister Bill Graham told The Associated Press yesterday. Canada currently has some 600 troops serving in the Afghan capital of Kabul with NATO's International Security Assistance Force, and plans to put a provincial reconstruction team, or PRT, in the southern city of Kandahar by August, Graham said.
 
Glad the cat is finally out of the bag-this decision was taken back before Christmas. Working with the US forces in the Kandahar region is a much better move for us-Kabul was becoming a backwater as far as "real" ops go. As well, I think that we have a lot of work to do on our relationship with the US and this is one way to do it. I know that when I was there, CJTF76 would  have gladly accepted a Cdn Inf TF to help out in the ops in the THUNDER and BRONCO AOs along the Pak frontier. Good luck, God speed and safe return for all those who go on this new task.

Cheers
 
Question for anyone, since the initial PRT team will be still part of the Operation Enduring Freedom coalition until handed over to NATO. Can anyone tell me if the medal given will be the South West Asia one or the new camp/star one????  ::)
              :salute:
 
Should be the SWASM.  However, it could (speculating) be the Campaign Star with a new bar...  different mission, so it's only a guess right now...

TR
 
I am going out on a limb to say it would be the SWASM (similar to our other Op ARCHER commitments).  This goes back to the problem that all of the Op APOLLO soldiers will not receive "recognition" for their second tour in Afghanistan.  Hopefully this will be changed soon.
 
How about we go on a longer limb and say wait until someone in Ottawa decides...

supplyguy said:
Question for anyone, since the initial PRT team will be still part of the Operation Enduring Freedom coalition until handed over to NATO. Can anyone tell me if the medal given will be the South West Asia one or the new camp/star one???

But my guess, as opposed to what Gunner said, would be GCS as all the coalition PRTs are under ISAF guidance.

Going over for the sole purpose of getting a new medal is slightly lower then for the "money" in my professional morals book...What happend to getting to do our job?

I shake my head at your question.  ::)


 
Armymedic said:
But my guess, as opposed to what Gunner said, would be GCS as all the coalition PRTs are under ISAF guidance.

I know you're in theatre, but this is not correct (as of Feb).   Only PRTs operating in ISAF's AOR are under ISAF command.   No US PRTs currently work for ISAF, nor does the NZ one.   A Canadian PRT based in Kandahar would likely work for TF BRONCO and CFC-A until ISAF expansion is complete.  At the moment, I believe Phase IV is scheduled to take over sometime after our main force is in place (post Feb next year). 

From the press release:

These forces will also play a key role in accelerating the expansion of the ISAF mission in southern Afghanistan, expected to occur gradually in 2006, during which the Canadian PRT, initially part of the Operation Enduring Freedom coalition, will transfer to NATO leadership.

Given how successful ISAF/NATO has been thus far, I wouldn't hold my breath.  Phase IV involves taking over the worst of the Southern part of Afghanistan and there may well be too many bad guys for that to happen soon.

Going over for the sole purpose of getting a new medal is slightly lower then for the "money" in my professional morals book...What happend to getting to do our job?

I shake my head in disgust at your question.

"Disgust"?   Good grief!   ::)   It was a valid question - give the guy a break.

TR
 
Geez, no kidding - the guy just asked a question; power down the Death Star....
 
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