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Canadian soldiers return to Kandahar

yes, a little harsh....esp with no rolly eyes  ::) thingy beside it....

I based my opinion about the command structure on the fact that the PRT is under ISAF when it gets set up here in the next 6 months. But your quote of the news article suggests otherwise, and that would make sense seeing how we are going to depending on the US for alot of support.

I guess another wait and sees until it happens.




 
Wow!! ??? Armymedic... All I asked was a simple question. I am proud to be in the military and to have the ability to go over seas on various missions to see the difference we actually make. So as I stated above it was a simple question. It wasn't motivated about money or a possibility of a new medal, it was just a question. I didn't mean to make you so uptight there Armymedic  :)

Quote
Going over for the sole purpose of getting a new medal is slightly lower then for the "money" in my professional morals book...What happend to getting to do our job?

I shake my head in disgust at your question.

thank you to the others for the more positive responses.  ;D



 
... brigade headquarters and an army task force, expected to remain in theatre respectively for a period of nine and 12 months.
WoW   :o, so if I read that correctly, the BDE HQ's will be in theater for approx 9 months and the TF will be in theater for approx 12 months?.....if so, watch and shoot for all the "omg, i cant deploy my cats having kittens" people. ::)



Edit: NM, i figured it out... ;D
 
Wowza!  I'm not even going to tread here - there are far too many "hot button"/highly emotive topics all rolled into one.  Medals?  Tour lengths?  Ah, the stuff of endless contention, turmoil, and rumour mongering.....

I'll tell you what.  Give me another chance to launch on deliberate combat operations intended to kill bad guys?  I will quite happily re-live the recce tent on a bed of gravel for 6 months, hard rats, showers on occasion, no HLTA, no fixed end-tour date, no expectation of a medal (or any other sort of recognition), and no whinging on my part.   

Some of the people participating in this "Army" forum really need to sort out their priorities and reasons for "serving".....

Just a humble observation....

Mark C 



 
I hear you sir . those were the days,  to walk as men among men.  let the earth tremble as we pass ... all i ask is that we not be charged 10 bucks for a bag of trail mix
 
axeman said:
I hear you sir . those were the days,   to walk as men among men.    let the earth tremble as we pass ... all i ask is that we not be charged 10 bucks for a bag of trail mix
Wow, sounds like you were realy (to coin a phrase) "in the shit"....
 
well the worst thing about that was the fact  well alot of the troops saw a lot of  planes in and out of there if you were there you'd recall that . well on my side of the tent line i heard a lot of gripes about the lack of creature niceties. and when they do show up  taxed on our smokes  etc. man what a kick that was . nothing personal man just a view over the shoulder . i saw the other guys get a lot more logistical support then we did  . not that I'm bitchin against them as i know a bunch of em  but hey man was it hot and it was something to bitch about .... cant complain against the leadership  they had all the troubles we had  and then some.  when you aint got much theres always something to moan about and that was mine kinda like those big econo size tins of tuna . we were happy as we were moaning but when its quiet  theres something up  you know how it goes .

:salute:
 
Funny how the motivation changes for some so quickly.
Mark C said:
Wowza!  I'm not even going to tread here - there are far too many "hot button"/highly emotive topics all rolled into one.  Medals?  Tour lengths?  Ah, the stuff of endless contention, turmoil, and rumour mongering.....

I'll tell you what.  Give me another chance to launch on deliberate combat operations intended to kill bad guys?  I will quite happily re-live the recce tent on a bed of gravel for 6 months, hard rats, showers on occasion, no HLTA, no fixed end-tour date, no expectation of a medal (or any other sort of recognition), and no whinging on my part.   

Some of the people participating in this "Army" forum really need to sort out their priorities and reasons for "serving".....

Just a humble observation....

Mark C 

You're bang on.  I remember that tour fondly.  Seemed there was no talk about money or medals before we went.  Just the desire to actually do what we are trained to do.  I would go back in the mountains tomorrow for NO EXTRA MONEY, yes I am serious.  The good 'ol Bean and Rice Burrito, burning our own waste, Getting 4 hours of sleep a night in 2-hour blocks for a month straight.  When guys are talking about what they are going to buy with ALL that money it shows what the motivation is that they have.  I wonder how they would feel once they are faced with the realisation that this is not a game and it is playing for keeps.  Oh well, just another example of how things have changed so drastically so fast.  I've only been in a short while and it amazes me what changes I've seen in that time.  I couldn't imagine what it's like for those of you in the 10 years + range.  :warstory:



 
axeman said:
kinda like those big econo size tins of tuna

Never speak ill of the battle tuna.  That bastard fed my whole platoon one night. 

In regards to sleeping in a recce tent, suffering raining mud, the dreaded camel spider, a few turns on white cycle and the apparently carcinogenic intake of MRE's, I would have to say sign me up.  Even if it is for 12 months.

 
"well alot of the troops saw a lot of  planes in and out of there if you were there you'd recall that ..."

Yes.

I was bitter at the time regarding our supply priorities.  One Coyote waiting weeks for an engine, mine waiting weeks for a WFOV/NFOV drive motor, and being told - after leading a two-Coyote patrol on another 80 to 100 km loop through the desert, that mine needed a left MacPherson strut, and not to push it, because there was only one spare. 

Meanwhile: planeloads of stuff, including gym and weightlifting eqpt arrive.

I have since been told that a lot of our heavy spares were shipped through a middle eastern country that was dissapointed we chose not to site a larger diplomatic presence in their nation, and - realizing we had no SOFA with them - decided to ice their point by holding up our supplies.  Nice guys.

Perspective is everything.  I spent maybe six nights living in 'camp', the rest sleeping in, on, beside, or behind Coyote c/s 42A.  We were a lot happier with our lives than most of the people who had to live in the camp were.  Our routine evolved into one week on surv, one week on QRF, one week on surv, one week on QRF...etc., not counting Ops CHEROKEE SKY, GREY HUSKY, etc.

Who wants to go on tour to live in a bloody camp?  Give me a trace on a map and a double load of main-gun ammo any day.

 
 
Well, according to wikipedia, we can all thank (or blame) <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia_Affair#Effect_of_the_Affair_on_the_Canadian_Forces>The Somalia Inquiry and the disbanding of the Canadian Airborn Regiment!</a>

The affair had a number of long lasting effects. It severely damaged the morale of the Canadian Forces and the DND. Recruitment became more difficult. The public revulsion led to the sharp cuts to military spending introduced by the Liberal government to be little criticized.

Many of the report's comments, along with the sustained media criticism of the military, led to the hasty imposition of drastic and unprecedented damage-limiting constraints on military leadership, training, operations, personnel policies and legal processes. In 1997, a former member of the British Parachute Regiment, Falklands war hero, and future commander of UN forces in Bosnia, Lieutenant-General Sir Hew Pike created a controversy among some Canadians when (apparently set-off by, amongst others, new Canadian policies favouring homosexuals and women in combat units) he said bluntly that "politically correct policies , none aimed at enhancing operational effectiveness, had badly eroded (the Canadian) forces' combat capability. He said 'The Canadians have surrendered any claim to be a war fighting force' ". (See: Edited Hansard "¢ Number 094 Monday, October 15, 2001). (http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/1/parlbus/chambus/house/debates/094_2001-10-15/han094_2450-E.htm) Many of these practices, such as the micro-management of training, operations and disciplinary processes at the most senior levels in Ottawa, and the resultant restrictions on the leadership and initiative of commanding officers, continue to shackle Canada's operational units and bloat the size of its bureaucracy. The significant overhead and the expensive facilities for Canadian soldiers in ex-Yugoslavia and Kabul (Afghanistan) that are undeniably the most comfortable field conditions in the world, are a reaction to criticism of the rudimentary conditions of the Airborne in Somalia.


;D ;D ;D

*runs away before the whole board tears itself apart again*


I don't care too much about the medals and what not, but I'll be damned if I go anywhere before I'm issued my C8SFW, RAS, PAQ4, Eotech, Magpul stock, screw-on sound suppresor(LCF kit, C1A1) and CADPAT thong. What's the point if I'm not going to get some full body shots posted over at lightfighter.net?
 
Britney Spears said:
I don't care too much about the medals and what not, but I'll be damned if I go anywhere before I'm issued my C8SFW, RAS, PAQ4, Eotech, Magpul stock, screw-on sound suppresor(LCF kit, C1A1) and CADPAT thong. What's the point if I'm not going to get some full body shots posted over at lightfighter.net?

Brit - if they won't let us do the job - at least I try to look the part   ;D

I'd much rather go over on MRE's and a recce tent on a mission WITH A PURPOSE - not sit around a camp thinking of cool pictures to take.

And I think those who know me (and one or two who know my sit fairly well) know my concern for gongs and stars is a little trivial


 
Has anyone else here noticed how this topic has turned from discussions about the PRT and more into talking about who is a real soldier and who wants to go back?  Not to **** on anyone's parade here, but the PRT is going in to Kandahar and as someone who will be there within weeks, I still don't have enough Int on what we are doing there, for how long or under who's command.

Anyone have anything pertinent to add here?
 
http://www.canada.com/edmonton/edmo....html?id=b07dd59c-43fa-4597-8930-f3c6b0300b88

Afghan recovery team draws on 200 city troops
Their role: guarding aid workers, diplomats

Jim Farrell
The Edmonton Journal
Thursday, June 23, 2005


EDMONTON - A group of soldiers practised rescuing aid workers from a hostile and threatening crowd Wednesday at Edmonton Garrison to prepare for an unprecedented new mission in Afghanistan.

In a month, 200 local soldiers will begin flying to the southern Afghan city of Kandahar to take on a new role as the security force for a Canadian-led reconstruction team in the area.

Most are members of 3 Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry. They will be joined by members of Edmonton Garrison's 1 Combat Engineer Regiment, local support and logistics soldiers and 50 soldiers from other Canadian bases who will provide specialized skills such as satellite communications.

A majority of the Edmonton-based soldiers will leave for Kandahar after July 18, and all troops will be there by the first week of August, said contingent leader Col. Steve Bowes, a former commander at Camp Gagetown, N.B.

It will be the first time for Canadians operating a reconstruction team, which plays roles in defence, diplomacy and development.

The local soldiers will be providing the defence.

The diplomatic section, from Foreign Affairs Canada, will help local Afghan officials rebuild local government.

If they're successful, it is hoped they will boost the legitimacy of Afghanistan's central government.

The development work of the reconstruction team will be done by representatives of the Canadian International Development Agency, or CIDA, who will oversee local aid projects; by Mounties who will help local police forces; and by non-governmental organizations that will take on aid projects.

As the security force for the team, Edmonton soldiers will also work with the Afghan army, Bowes said.

"When we go outside the city we will link up with and embed the Afghan army and they will go with us so the coalition will be seen to be in support of them."

During its operations outside Kandahar, the Canadian team will also work with representatives of Afghanistan's ministry of the interior.

Working alongside Afghan officials will help put a local face on the team's activities and boost the stature of their country's central government, Bowes said.

Some of the Canadian staff will operate out of the American military base at Kandahar Airport, where soldiers from 3 Battalion PPCLI were based three years ago.

The remainder of the team will operate out of a former fruit factory in Kandahar, a facility currently used by an American reconstruction team that the Canadians are replacing.

The Canadian team will operate throughout Kandahar province as the U.S. moves its reconstruction activities into other areas of the country.

Canada's assignment represents both an expansion in duties for the country and a greater security challenge, Bowes said.

"The Kandahar environment is more dynamic than others so we have had to focus on that in our training.

"There has been an escalation of activities associated with the Taliban and al-Qaeda in that area this spring, but we have also seen that kind of increased activity in Kabul and in northeastern Afghanistan."

In February, more Edmonton troops will arrive in the Kandahar area as a new rotation begins and Canada moves its Afghan contingent south from Kabul.

By the time that move is complete, an extra 600 to 700 Edmonton soldiers will be in the Kandahar area as part of the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force.
 
At the Kandahar Airfield, you are surrounded by desert.  The only interruption to the view is (besides local structures), a mountain.

I used to call it my "weather rock" - when it became fuzzy, I knew there was a sandstorm on its' way.  When I couldn't see it anymore, the sandstorm had arrived.

I recall a couple of occasions when it actually rained mud - there was so much dirt in the air that the rain mixed with it and it fell to the ground as a plug of wet earth.  It was during one of these storms that the MND was forced to stay an extra night.

When we first got there, it was still cold at night - not "Canada Cold", but bad enough without arctic equipment.  I don't know how early in the fall this type of weather begins, but if you're deploying in August for a six month tour, bring at least SOME cold weather stuff (long johns, etc).

Whenever I feel nostalgic for Kandahar (only twice since I returned - and I was extremely drunk both times), I wait for a REALLY hot day (for Edmonton) of over 25 degrees, then I turn the dryer on full blast, then I stick my head in the dryer exhaust vent - still only approximates the blast furnace the troops will experience.

Good luck to all deploying - Gentle Winds, Soft Landings.

 
"I recall a couple of occasions when it actually rained mud - there was so much dirt in the air that the rain mixed with it and it fell to the ground as a plug of wet earth.  It was during one of these storms that the MND was forced to stay an extra night."

- My morale soared on that one!  Just before that, he was touring a position on the north side of Kandahar  airfield, I was watching from the south side, and a C-17 landed, then used the apron exit between us to turn right off the active.  When he turned, he goosed the furnaces, and sent 100 tons of high speed dust and sand blasting into the position the MND was inspecting.  Almost fell out of my turret, laughing.

"When we first got there, it was still cold at night - not "Canada Cold", but bad enough without arctic equipment.  I don't know how early in the fall this type of weather begins, but if you're deploying in August for a six month tour, bring at least SOME cold weather stuff (long johns, etc)."

- I landed 3 Feb 02 - I think - in the first few weeks, my canteen might have frozen maybe twice.

Tom

 
The weather will be the first of possibly many not so popular experiences no doubt.
I can relate to the "weather rock". I have the mountains to the east of my camp, you can actually see the weather (rain, fog, dust) cresting it and moving towards us.
I particularly like (sarcasm) that they are returning to the area in July and Aug when the most inhospitable (in my opinion) weather hits...wind, sand and heat. This spring has been mild and wet and quite temprate so far in Kabul, and the weather in Kandahar has been a little warmer so far. But now as summer hits and the 100 days of wind come....
 
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