CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

[Brad Sallows]

Chains are light, if you only add them a couple of links at a time.

 

[OceanBonfire]

Doctors frustrated with 'selfishness' of unvaccinated people, protesters

Some doctors and nurses are frustrated with large groups of anti-vaccination protesters outside hospitals in cities across the country and say limited health-care resources are being used to save the lives of those who decided not to protect themselves against COVID-19.

www.ctvnews.ca

‘The ultimate selfishness’: Doctors grow frustrated as anti-vaxxers protest hospitals | Globalnews.ca

'I think they don't realize — they are too arrogant to understand — that we live in a society where we all have to make sacrifices,' said one doctor.

globalnews.ca

I'm also getting frustrated of those who keep the virus circulating around. Guess how preventing idiots from spreading the virus works in France:

COVID-19 cases down after France introduced its vaccine passport — will the same happen in Canada? - National | Globalnews.ca

Vaccine passports appear to push people to get vaccinated, though it's less clear if France's lower daily COVID-19 cases are due to the policy.

globalnews.ca

 

[Colin Parkinson]

France has vaccinated about 61% of it's population, so Canada is actually doing better in that regards.

rant mode on As for doctors, perhaps they can wean themselves off of a billing cycle that rat racing from patient to patient, over the last year and bit of dealing with my daughters health has not helped my opinion of many doctors. Funny enough the doctors I like best are ones that immigrated here and have a totally different patient-doctor dynamic. rant mode off

 

[The Bread Guy]

rant mode on As for doctors, perhaps they can wean themselves off of a billing cycle that rat racing from patient to patient, over the last year and bit of dealing with my daughters health has not helped my opinion of many doctors. Funny enough the doctors I like best are ones that immigrated here and have a totally different patient-doctor dynamic. rant mode off

Paying them piece work leads to this I've had my primary care from nurse practitioners since my family doc died many years ago, and all 4 I've had have been great: accessible, not tied to the "conveyor belt" model (appointments are 30 or 60 minutes) and can hook up with docs/specialists as needed. Also had great service from PA's in emerg, too.

 

[Remius]

Paying them piece work leads to this I've had my primary care from nurse practitioners since my family doc died many years ago, and all 4 I've had have been great: accessible, not tied to the "conveyor belt" model (appointments are 30 or 60 minutes) and can hook up with docs/specialists as needed. Also had great service from PA's in emerg, too.

In another lifetime my wife used to be an RN. Back when nurses were being cut. She worked at an apple tree clinic and the Doctor that ran it was all about volume and quantity over quality care. When he was asking how they could improve she told him that it was a problem when patients were still discussing their issues with him as he ushered them out. Not saying it’s still like that but I have no doubt that things haven’t Improved much.

 

[FJAG]

In another lifetime my wife used to be an RN. Back when nurses were being cut. She worked at an apple tree clinic and the Doctor that ran it was all about volume and quantity over quality care. When he was asking how they could improve she told him that it was a problem when patients were still discussing their issues with him as he ushered them out. Not saying it’s still like that but I have no doubt that things haven’t Improved much.

This is why people go to naturopaths. Listening to the patient is part and parcel to the process. The super diluted medicine given to them is worthless but at least the patient feels that they've been listened to.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I wonder, if hospitals didn't receive extra funding for covid patients and deaths, if some numbers would change dramatically? I'm still of the mind that covid numbers should be counted by hospital admissions, not cases based on test results. Thousands of people will test positive with no ill effects. Those numbers should not be used to lock us down or impose restrictions on us arbitrarily. Especially notwithstanding the efficacy of some of the tests.

 

[Remius]

Hinshaw says government knew since mid-August hospital demand would rise without provincial intervention

Alberta's chief medical officer of health has admitted the province's lifting of restrictions earlier this summer was the wrong approach.

calgary.ctvnews.ca

Now she gets it…

 

[daftandbarmy]

Hinshaw says government knew since mid-August hospital demand would rise without provincial intervention

Alberta's chief medical officer of health has admitted the province's lifting of restrictions earlier this summer was the wrong approach.

calgary.ctvnews.ca

Now she gets it…

I was there, then, and it was insane...

 

[brihard]

I wonder, if hospitals didn't receive extra funding for covid patients and deaths, if some numbers would change dramatically? I'm still of the mind that covid numbers should be counted by hospital admissions, not cases based on test results. Thousands of people will test positive with no ill effects. Those numbers should not be used to lock us down or impose restrictions on us arbitrarily. Especially notwithstanding the efficacy of some of the tests.

Covid patients are vastly more expensive based on longevity of hospital admissions.

Canadian hospitals spend $23,000 on typical COVID-19 patient, report finds

Canadian hospitals spent nearly $1 billion caring for patients with COVID-19, with the average cost per patient being $23,000.

www.ctvnews.ca

Are hospitals receiving disproportionately more money, or does the alleged extra funding get eaten up in expenses? Is it offset by all the forced overtime the medical staff are running?

 

[Remius]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/kenney-shandro-hinshaw-update-covid-19-1.6177210

Things are getting dire in Alberta.

 

[MilEME09]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/kenney-shandro-hinshaw-update-covid-19-1.6177210

Things are getting dire in Alberta.

And I think it was pretty dumb to announce new measures at 6pm, most businesses have closed for the day and will be scambling in the morning.

 

[Remius]

And I think it was pretty dumb to announce new measures at 6pm, most businesses have closed for the day and will be scambling in the morning.

Agreed. But politics seem to be the priority there not public health.

 

[Altair]

Vitor Marciano: Alberta’s fourth wave exposes how little capacity Canada’s hospitals actually have

The truth is that no Canadian province could absorb the hospitalization crush needed to lift restrictions while pursuing COVID herd immunity

nationalpost.com

COVID-19 has put about 24 people per 100,000 Albertans in hospital over the past week or so. Roughly a quarter are in an intensive care unit bed. Now this isn’t 24 people per 1,000. It is a very sparse 24 people per 100,000 and it is overwhelming Alberta’s hospitals and causing the province’s centrally run health system to pull every lever possible to increase ICU capacity. It likely won’t be enough.

Some time in the next week or so Alberta may have to go to ICU triage protocols. Doctors may have to start following pre-set rules that determine whether someone with very severe COVID or someone injured in a serious motor vehicle accident can get an ICU bed. Already this week, Dr. Verna Yu, the CEO of Alberta’s health system, declared that the only reason the system has not collapsed yet is that enough ICU beds are being freed up by patients who are dying every day.

Twenty-four people per 100,000 in hospital would put Alberta in the bottom half of U.S. states by COVID hospitalization rate. The New York Times tracks this information by state, and as of Tuesday Montana was at 41 per 100,000, Alabama at 39, Texas at 40, Arizona at 25, and Colorado at 18. None of them are anywhere near a hospital crisis.

Alberta has had one of the best health care systems in Canada for years now and it only has 400 ICU beds and staff for 4.4 million Albertans.

In places like Ontario its worse, with something like 800 ICU beds and staff for 14.5 million people.

Places like Europe have faired so much better than us as well, with France and Britain both having some of the highest levels of community spread in the western world at one time or another and despite that never having their health care systems collapse under the strain.

Its well past time to tear our health care systems down to the ground and invite experts from the UK, France, Germany and Italy here to help us reorganize and rebuild it. The current system is a expensive disgrace.

 

[RangerRay]

Vitor Marciano: Alberta’s fourth wave exposes how little capacity Canada’s hospitals actually have

The truth is that no Canadian province could absorb the hospitalization crush needed to lift restrictions while pursuing COVID herd immunity

nationalpost.com

Alberta has had one of the best health care systems in Canada for years now and it only has 400 ICU beds and staff for 4.4 million Albertans.

In places like Ontario its worse, with something like 800 ICU beds and staff for 14.5 million people.

Places like Europe have faired so much better than us as well, with France and Britain both having some of the highest levels of community spread in the western world at one time or another and despite that never having their health care systems collapse under the strain.

Its well past time to tear our health care systems down to the ground and invite experts from the UK, France, Germany and Italy here to help us reorganize and rebuild it. The current system is a expensive disgrace.

Everyone knows this but nothing will change. You and I can say “look at Europe” all we want, but the defenders of our system will say “look at the US!” and everyone will be scared. Governments that promise reform will be cowed, or they tinker at the edges and make things worse.

The current system is a sacred cow that will never be slaughtered until it completely collapses. When that happens, the private sector will come in on their own terms, not the public’s.

 

[lenaitch]

^ It would be interesting to compare our system with other single-payer systems. I know virtually nothing about them. At least part of our issue is that the delivery of healthcare is a provincial mandate with federal funding/bribery thrown at it and the constant battle over strings/no strings attached to the spending (as I heard Blanchet speak of - yet again - this morning). I know at least the UK does not have this constant jurisdictional squabbling.

 

[Altair]

^ It would be interesting to compare our system with other single-payer systems. I know virtually nothing about them. At least part of our issue is that the delivery of healthcare is a provincial mandate with federal funding/bribery thrown at it and the constant battle over strings/no strings attached to the spending (as I heard Blanchet speak of - yet again - this morning). I know at least the UK does not have this constant jurisdictional squabbling.

Not possible since they don't really exist.

Understanding Universal Health Care Reform Options: Private Insurance

www.fraserinstitute.org

Canada’s health care system has prominent features that distinguish it from virtually all other high-income countries that provide universal health care coverage. One such feature is the absence of private insurance markets for medically necessary services.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

The USA and Canada are outliers in the western world, USA by not providing universal healthcare and Canada by locking out private healthcare, and both have subpar results.

 

[Brad Sallows]

First place to start is to separate health insurance and health care and discuss each meaningfully. People who brag on "public health care" usually are talking about insurance, but insurance is not very useful if capacity to provide services is lacking.

 

[lenaitch]

Not possible since they don't really exist.

Not sure what you mean:

Countries with Single Payer 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

Sorry; if your using the Fraser Institute as your foundation, we won't have much of discussion.

I won't readily dismiss any role of for-profit in our system simply because I don't understand the complex issues, but have a hard time accepting that to introduction of private insurance - most likely US-based - won't be the beginning of the end.

 

[mariomike]

Doctors may have to start following pre-set rules that determine whether someone with very severe COVID or someone injured in a serious motor vehicle accident can get an ICU bed.

I was thinking of that when I saw Amtrak's "Empire Builder" on the ground in rural Montana, just south of the Alberta border.

Multi-Casualty Incident. Just a couple of days ago.