Cenotaph/Memorial Vandalism/Solutions-Laws (merged)

[Mike Baker]

Heck, I would be a guard there for no charge, just so this despicable thing don't happen again. This clueless fellow would probally not be here if it wasn't for those brave men and women who gave their lives so we could live, not p*** all over their memorials.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

For once, the media has done the right thing and I take some comfort in the fact that this assh*le's photo is on the front page of the Citizen, beneath a banner headline reading "A National Disgrace".

Have a look at the "Sound Off" comments at the bottom of the web page; many others feel as we do here.

 

[LCIS-Tech]

Someone should have grabbed that punk by the scruff of the neck and made him lick the monument clean....

 

[GO!!!]

I would not guard the Memorial with ceremonial guard, especially having borne witness to the gong show that exists at the governor generals residence, where the GGFGs require guarding themselves to prevent tourists from touching them and their weapons.

Make the guard a platoon of Cbt Arms troops in Cadpat, perhaps with an identifying armband. With a shift rotation, you could have 3-4 on duty 24hrs a day. Goodwill ambassadors and question answerers by day, idiot stomping ****kickers by night. I'd volunteer!

I echo the sentiment to the effect of how we spend far more on other things - like sending troops to do ceremonial guard at Buckingham palace, and hundred - man honor guards for generals - while leaving the War Memorial undefended.

 

[paracowboy]

I would not guard the Memorial with ceremonial guard, especially having borne witness to the gong show that exists at the governor generals residence, where the GGFGs require guarding themselves to prevent tourists from touching them and their weapons.

hence the ROEs. not ceremonial duties, these troops would be sentries.

Make the guard a platoon of Cbt Arms troops in Cadpat, perhaps with an identifying armband. With a shift rotation, you could have 3-4 on duty 24hrs a day. Goodwill ambassadors and question answerers by day, idiot stomping ****kickers by night. I'd volunteer!

which is why I suggest the GGFG. Their Armoury is right down the street.

 

[Kat Stevens]

All the pictures taken that night should be printed in every paper, and shown on every news broadcast coast to coast to coast.  And that little spermburp needs a Lee-Enfield sword bayonet right up the chitlins.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

At the risk of ruining a good rant, and taking this off on a tangent:

hence the ROEs. not ceremonial duties, these troops would be sentries.

Unfortunately, you're in to Aid to the Civil Power-type stuff here.  Legally, we couldn't actually mount a "real" guard (one with powers of arrest, ROE, etc.) without jumping through all sorts of legal hoops and constitutional issues.  That's why it's the Ceremonial Guard.

We could mount a 24/7 "ceremonial" guard that just happened to have weapons and bayonets fixed...but I find that a bit American/Russian for my taste.

The Ottawa Police need to step up to the plate here, along with the RCMP; security is their responsibility and they need to be taking it seriously.

 

[orange.paint]

I would not guard the Memorial with ceremonial guard, especially having borne witness to the gong show that exists at the governor generals residence, where the GGFGs require guarding themselves to prevent tourists from touching them and their weapons.

Make the guard a platoon of Cbt Arms troops in Cadpat, perhaps with an identifying armband. With a shift rotation, you could have 3-4 on duty 24hrs a day. Goodwill ambassadors and question answerers by day, idiot stomping ****kickers by night. I'd volunteer!

I echo the sentiment to the effect of how we spend far more on other things - like sending troops to do ceremonial guard at Buckingham palace, and hundred - man honor guards for generals - while leaving the War Memorial undefended.

yep although that would rock I can see the next headline in the Ottawa citizen  "HARPERS SS BEAT DOWN LOCAL TEENS."
As teddy said too much paper law crap to implement a Guard in down town Ottawa.

GGHG should be enough of a deterrant.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Easy. Designate the area as DND property, post "trespassers will be violated" signs around it, and call it an indefinite BDF exercise. Voila! Conditions met .  ;D

 

[IrishCanuck]

That's just awful... someone deserves a beat down.

The only way you will have effective deterrence is if their is in fact a "ceremonial guard".

There is too much space to cover in Ottawa for their to be a dedicated Ottawa police officer or RCMP officer at the memorial at all times. It simply won't happen. ( At least for longer than a temporary length anyway)

 

[paracowboy]

you're in to Aid to the Civil Power-type stuff here.  Legally, we couldn't actually mount a "real" guard (one with powers of arrest, ROE, etc.) without jumping through all sorts of legal hoops and constitutional issues.  That's why it's the Ceremonial Guard.

hence the coordination I spoke of earlier. Legally, there has to be some precedent somewhere. And, if not, then we work with the system to produce one.

We could mount a 24/7 "ceremonial" guard that just happened to have weapons and bayonets fixed...but I find that a bit American/Russian for my taste.

and if we don't have all "t"s crossed, and "i"s dotted, we have a legal/media/political nightmare. If Pte Troopie even lays a finger on John Q. Civvie-scumbag, then we have assault.

The Ottawa Police need to step up to the plate here, along with the RCMP; security is their responsibility and they need to be taking it seriously.

they're busy trying to catch murderers, drug dealers, drunk drivers, and such. They have enough on their plate.

 

[Gunner]

Easy. Designate the area as DND property, post "trespassers will be violated" signs around it, and call it an indefinite BDF exercise. Voila! Conditions met .  ;D

Kat, this would work (designating the National War Memorial as a DND property) under current legislation, no requirement for aid to lawful authority activities.

While I find this behavious disgusting, I am not yet ready to agree to a 24/7 military presence for all the reasons we discussed in the previous tomb of the unknown soldier thread.  Maybe we should be looking for retired cbt arms NCOs/WOs to form something similar to the UK's "Beefeaters" at the Tower of London.  Part Security/part tour guide.

 

[career_radio-checker]

I'm at the monument quite often. Its just a nice place to go and sit and people watch, have a sandwich, and enjoy the sun. Tourists are actually pleased to be able to approach and touch the tomb. It gives the monument a 'tangible' aspect that adds to the aura of the site. If you were there on Canada day you would have see the tomb covered with little paper Canada flags and it actually brought a tear to my eye. Somebody said there should be security there at least on Canada day, and there was. Three commissionaires were there. If there was to be security it should be off to the side and not directly on the monument platforms as this would deter people from getting close to the tomb and the monument itself and enjoying it fully. Trust me the vast 99.9999% of people respect the tomb. I even remember overhearing one dad tell his kids that they should never forget that they have the life they have today because people like the unknown soldier fought and died for their country. Now imagine the difference in impact that would have if your dad didn't say it two feet from the tomb.

 

[GO!!!]

After looking at that picture a little more closely, a few things became apparent.

1) Very short hair
2) Maroon shirt with yellow, unidentifiable crest on left breast
3) Short facial hair (perhaps indicating recently having gone on leave)

Maybe we are looking a little far away for a culprit here, when the problem could very well be closer to home.

It would be a disgrace indeed if this idiot is a member.

 

[Mike Baker]

there is another thing that you all should notice, there seems to be two "spouts." If you look closely to the puddle there, you can see the other, indicating two people.

 

[Sig_Des]

Wow...this is disgusting.

I was downtown at the time, and it's probably a good thing I didn't see this.

Sadly, I can understand the police and security on Canada day missing this one, as it's incredibly busy, and they're looking to make sure people don't pass out drunk, get trampled, or fight.

I personally like the idea of an honor guard. The CG is in effect every summer, why not extend a small portion of it to guarding the WM ?

Another option would be to task it as a rotating duty around units in Ottawa?

 

[Danjanou]

After looking at that picture a little more closely, a few things became apparent.

1) Very short hair
2) Maroon shirt with yellow, unidentifiable crest on left breast
3) Short facial hair (perhaps indicating recently having gone on leave)

Maybe we are looking a little far away for a culprit here, when the problem could very well be closer to home.

It would be a disgrace indeed if this idiot is a member.

Much as I don't want to believe, you may be right. If true this will make for an intersting trial, not his  the other troopie who rips out his heart after finding this mouth breathing asshat.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

The "dude" also appears to have those trendy 'burns so common today, which does not suggest "soldier"...  The truth will come out, no doubt - having one's photo on the front page of a major paper doesn't lend itself to anonymity.

 

[Haggis]

Another option would be to task it as a rotating duty around units in Ottawa?

In Ottawa today it's hard enough to find sufficient members of the Reg F/Class B/C to perform Standing Guard duties for the numerous dignitaries that frequent the NCR.  Recently, 33 CBG had an extremely difficult time getting enough Ottawa based troops together for a change of command (a ONE DAY event) due to summer taskings/ARC etc.  Same for the CLS change.  Troops were brought in from all over Ontario for that one, a ONE DAY affair.  Now you want to make it a 24/7/365 tasking?

Who pays for this "duty"?  Where do we find the lodging, rations, training, equipment?  How long before the Liberal Defence critic slams this as a waste of scarce manpower and resources and an insult to the abilities of the Ottawa Police?

Look, I know everyone's pissed off right now, but put this in perspective.  IF this photo hadn't been taken, IF the photographer wasn't a vet, would anyone know?  How many OTHER times has this happened with no photographer around?  No witnesses?  No indignant press?  Until today nobody knew this was happening or how often.  Maybe this once?  Maybe every Saturday night? 

It would be a disgrace indeed if this idiot is a member.

It would indeed!  But THAT, GO!!!, is exactly what the media who frequent this site will focus on.  If it had been just another street person.... well, who cares.

 

[IrishCanuck]

After looking at that picture a little more closely, a few things became apparent.

1) Very short hair
2) Maroon shirt with yellow, unidentifiable crest on left breast
3) Short facial hair (perhaps indicating recently having gone on leave)

Maybe we are looking a little far away for a culprit here, when the problem could very well be closer to home.

It would be a disgrace indeed if this idiot is a member.

Unlikely.

The facial hair you are talking about appears to be a chin strap, a style which involves much effort and maintenance, probably not worth it for whatever short period of "leave' he may have had.

He's dressed in a more suburban rich kid look, ie. Hollister clothes etc  combined with his gelled hair and Nike Shocks shoes make me even more skeptical of him being in the CF.  I know im generalising, but I see alot more of these wanna be playboys around campus driving their daddy's cars then down at the armouries by Dow's Lake.