CF Short Service Medals

[Disenchantedsailor]

it's not so much a short svc medal itself, however we do give a gratuity to reservists who serve over 10 years before packing it in, whether they earn the CD or not, but there is a call to change the "wound stripe" to a wound medal, simaler to our US Conterparts, and our own version of the CIB, not important to Canadians of of the world wars and Korea, now if a soldier goes on a UN tour (if we start doing those large scale again) they are entitled to 2 medals for that 1 OP, it just seems that the focus these days is on the bling and not "service before self"

This is my thinking on a short svc medal, give it to the guys who get broken before they can make 12 year unprosecuted crime, but 4 years, hell thats most of the new basic engagements, come on in do your first contract we'll give you a gong and the post nom to go with it and you can go your merry way, when others can spend 20 years chasing that golden wristwatch and walk away with a CD and a fancy piece of paper, tell me where is the justice to those willing to stick around for the long run, when you can get the same thing just after your olde enough to drink in the states.

And George you really beat me too it on that one.

 

[1feral1]

Badges and medals don't make the man; the man does.

+10.

Medals, CIB's etc do give recognition of 'services rendered'.

Awards and decs are worthy, and when I am retired, I can look back at my whole adult life as a soldier, and pass on my medals to the next generation of relations to cherish once I've carked it.

There will always be posers. WW2, Korea,  VN, UN missions, the new post 9-11 wars, etc. People who forge Uni degrees etc. There is always the weak who attempt to tarnish the ones who are for real.

This new war will open a whole new can of worms for them, not only in Canada and the US, but here too. So far over 20,000 Australians have seen service in the MEAO already.


Cheers,

Wes

 

[Dirty Patricia]

The phobia of Canada going the way of our US neighbours is just plain paranoia. The US have a different awards system, and it is part of their military culture. We shoud not knock it or make fun of it.

Too true.  You just have to browse this thread to see peoples ignorance about the American awards system.  Take the time to read up on their system before you knock it. 

I think Wes may back me up on this, but I feel Australia has an excellent system of honours and awards.  They are not afraid of using some American ideas, maintaining some British tradition and developing some ideas of their own. 

 

[1feral1]

it's not so much a short svc medal itself, however we do give a gratuity to reservists who serve over 10 years before packing it in, whether they earn the CD or not, but there is a call to change the "wound stripe" to a wound medal, simaler to our US Conterparts, and our own version of the CIB, not important to Canadians of of the world wars and Korea, now if a soldier goes on a UN tour (if we start doing those large scale again) they are entitled to 2 medals for that 1 OP, it just seems that the focus these days is on the bling and not "service before self"

This is my thinking on a short svc medal, give it to the guys who get broken before they can make 12 year unprosecuted crime, but 4 years, hell thats most of the new basic engagements, come on in do your first contract we'll give you a gong and the post nom to go with it and you can go your merry way, when others can spend 20 years chasing that golden wristwatch and walk away with a CD and a fancy piece of paper, tell me where is the justice to those willing to stick around for the long run, when you can get the same thing just after your olde enough to drink in the states.

And George you really beat me too it on that one.

This reckon this new medal will happen (it will take years though), and I would not be suprised if the criteria will be based on the ADM.

Nothing wrong with the CIB either. I feel one is enough, not three types, thats as bad as the fitness badge thing from after I left.

Of all my medals and awards, the ACB (Aussie CIB for non infantry) that I was awarded means alot. It was earned, and not everyone gets them. Nothing cheap about that!

 

[Sub_Guy]

It seems those who oppose it are so quick to say we are "Americanizing" our awards system.  If you don't like it throw your awards in the garbage, myself I think recognition is a good thing, does that mean I need a ribbon for getting up in the morning? No, it would be nice though  ;D

I have asked several of my American brothers in arms about their ribbons, and I have never heard anything negative, it has always been positive, but then again the American culture in reference to military service is much different than ours.  Its a good idea, now I wonder how long it will take to hammer out a contract, and will it go to a Quebec based company?    Jean "No New Medals!"   

 

[Michael OLeary]

Getting back to a short service medal,

When the Canadian Forces Decoration (CD) was approved in 1949 (and announced in 1950), it replaced eight different long service medals which Canadian servicemen and women could be eligible for at that time:

RCN Long Service Medal (15 years service)
Royal Canadian Navy Voluntary Reserve (RCNVR) Long Service Medal  (12 years service)
RCNVR Officer's Decoration (15 years service)
Army Long Service and Good Conduct Medal (18 years service)
Efficiency Medal (12 years service)
Efficiency Decoration (20 years service, 12 years after 1949)
RCAF Long Service and Good Conduct Medal (18 years service)
Air Efficiency Award. (10 years service)

While there is no historic precedent in Canadian experience for a service medal with a term as short as 4 years, perhaps this should not be used as an exclusionary criteria.  I would be more interested in seeing the complete case for the medal, and how the proposal balances its projected use against the existing award (the CD).  Would a service member be awarded the 4-year medal and then have it replaced at 12 years? 

Or would both be worn?  There is some precedent for double long service awards (such as the EM and ED), but as far as I know the time frames for the non-commissioned and commissioned service in that example would not have been overlapping. 

 

[Blackadder1916]

Getting back to a short service medal,
. . .

While there is no historic precedent in Canadian experience for a service medal with a term as short as 4 years, perhaps this should not be used as an exclusionary criteria.  I would be more interested in seeing the complete case for the medal, and how the proposal balances its projected use against the existing award (the CD).  Would a service member be awarded the 4-year medal and then have it replaced at 12 years? 

Or would both be worn?  There is some precedent for double long service awards (such as the EM and ED), but as far as I know the time frames for the non-commissioned and commissioned service in that example would not have been overlapping.

I could see a case made for a medal in which "one" of the qualifying criteria was a short period of service and which would have no effect on qualifying service for the Canadian Forces Decoration.  In fact most service (or campaign) medals have varying time periods for eligibility and they do not effect the qualifying period for long service and good conduct medals.  The CD falls into the category of a long service, good conduct or efficiency medal.  This class of medal is awarded for completion of certain periods of service (12 years being the basic period in Canada).  The medal proposed, as per the motion from the Honorary Colonels of Canada, would be awarded as a “signal of appreciation for their commitment to Canada and the Armed Forces of our Country”.  The time period of four years (or a similar short period) would be only one of the requirements.

The proposed medal has already been compared in this thread to the Australian Defence Medal.  "The Australian Defence Medal (ADM) has been established to recognise Australian Defence Force Regular and Reserve personnel who have demonstrated their commitment and contribution to the nation by serving for an initial enlistment period or four years service whichever is the lesser."   The Australian counterpart of the CD is the Defence Long Service Medal (DLSM) and like the CD is awarded for completion of a period of service.  The award of the ADM does not affect the award of the DLSM.

The Canadian Volunteer Service Medal awarded during WW2 could be considered in the same light as the proposed medal and its qualifying service had no effect on the award of any long service medals.

While it may be just semantics, there is a difference between a medal for completion of a specific number of years in service and one awarded in recognition of commitment to the nation for which one of the qualifying criteria is a set number of years.  At one time I would be in wholehearted agreement with those who think this proposal ill-conceived, redundant or just plain stupid.  It is very easy to say that those who deserve recognition in the form of medals already get adequately recognized.  But not everyone who joins (or served in the past) remains in military or naval service for a minimum of twelve years, a good number don't and most who stay that long remain until pensionable (career soldiers).  Not everyone has served overseas, or with a NATO force afloat or in special duty areas where they have earned a visible token of their service.  But the many who haven't still serve honourably defending Canada, doing what the country asks them to do; some in fact paying the ultimate price right here at home.

 

[Lard of the Dance]

Essentially, this is a reward for those who choose to leave the CF for civilian life or quite simply aren't cut out for the job! If memory serves me correctly, half of those four years are spent in training, even more for some trades. Hell, while we're at it let's have a second go around with the Queen's Jubilee, we all remember how that went.

 

[Sig_Des]

Essentially, this is a reward for those who choose to leave the CF for civilian life or quite simply aren't cut out for the job!

I don't buy that last statement for a second. I personally don't agree with a short-service medal, but let's be honest, just because someone leaves after their VIE, doesn't mean they weren't cut out. I'm sure there are many outstanding soldiers that have chosen to get out, for personal or professional reasons.

Look at it this way. For almost half a decade, they served their country, and fullfilled the contract they said they would honor.

Besides, while maybe half of that contract may be on training, depending on trade, it's not unusual to see a young troop with a tour by the end of their first VIE.

 

[Trinity]

The sexton at my church retired after 10 years service.  I guess according to you he couldn't hack it. 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

....and here I thought I got out on my own terms after 10 years,.......not until today did I realize I was just a pansy. :

 

[IntlBr]

Why exactly would this be only for people who have released - thats the only thing I don't understand about it, to be honest.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

So we don't get that "Boy Scout" look?

 

[IntlBr]

That strikes me as a pretty poor reason to only recognize people who released....

 

[George Wallace]

That strikes me as a pretty poor reason to only recognize people who released....

As such, it should have some stipulations on it, to make it more or less an award outside of the Order of Awards, in that it would not be permitted to be worn should the person decide later in life to enlist in the CF a second time.

 

[IntlBr]

Well, several others have compared this to the Volunteer Service Medal of WWII reknown. I've heard veterans at my local legion refer to them as EBGMs (Every Bastard Got one Medal), and I've got my grandfather's at home, (along with his campaign stars, mounted, and behind glass) - but I don't think the military was tarnished by it then, and I don't see why it would be now.

Averaging something like this once every 60 years... We're doing okay!

 

[Lard of the Dance]

First off, I did not imply that all of those who choose to leave the Cf "can't hack it", and I most certainly did not call anybody a pansy. So, let's please leave the school games out of this. My point is that I disagree with medals awarded for a short term. All service is appreciated but a short service medal just isn't on, especially because members who continue their careers aren't awarded for their service until the 12 year mark.

 

[Sig_Des]

First off, I did not imply that all of those who choose to leave the Cf "can't hack it"

Well, that was certainly something of an implication when I read this. I will admit sometimes it's hard to read into statements online, but that's what I got here:

Essentially, this is a reward for those who choose to leave the CF for civilian life or quite simply aren't cut out for the job

Like I said, I agree with you about the medal, for the same reasons, but the way it was presented seemed like a slam.

 

[Lard of the Dance]

Wasn't meant to come off as a slam, but I can see where it may come off as one. Apologies for that but I still hate the thought of the medal. Cheers!

 

[tomahawk6]

The US Army doesnt have a long service medal just our Good Conduct Medal which is awarded after 3 year's of honorable and faithful service.

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Awards/GOOD_CONDUCT_MEDAL.htm