CH-146 Griffon

[Kirkhill]

There was an article yesterday about the UK MoD downsizing the A400 fleet due to excessive cost overruns.

Not sure the number 22 holds at this point.

Some rumours of extending the Herc fleet as well?

 

[Kirkhill]

Block 6.0, 7.1 or 8.1 propellers?

Was there some discussion early on about the wash from the early models being so ugly you couldn't jump from them?

 

[Good2Golf]

Was there some discussion early on about the wash from the early models being so ugly you couldn't jump from them?

It wasn’t the propellers, but the ramp configuration as I understand it. My semi-j/k back to Dimsum related to the variety of 130J variants out there and how supportable (or not) they may be.

 

[Kirkhill]

No, I was thinking about a half remembered article from years back about early A400s.

Course my memory plays tricks these days.

 

[KevinB]

Not the original article I read - but

UK scraps additional A400M buy as ‘unaffordable'

The United Kingdom has scrapped plans to acquire additional Airbus A400M Atlas airlifters, saying it is no longer affordable.

www.janes.com

 

[Skysix]

Even better would be to replace the Griffon with UH-1Ys and buy AH-1Z Vipers, which share 84% of components.

And it would remain in kreeping with buying American products made in Canada, contribute NORAD and NATO interoperability (USMC), require far less maintainer and pilot re training, and keep their (currently still operating) production lines open etc etc.

So obviously, it will never happen. It just makes too much sense.

 

[KevinB]

And it would remain in kreeping with buying American products made in Canada, contribute NORAD and NATO interoperability (USMC), require far less maintainer and pilot re training, and keep their (currently still operating) production lines open etc etc.

So obviously, it will never happen. It just makes too much sense.

@Kirkhill put this article elsewhere

Army Vertical Lift Key to Indo-Pacific Strategy

Army Vertical Lift Key to Indo-Pacific Strategy

www.nationaldefensemagazine.org

But it does show why the Viper and Venom aren’t what one should be aspiring towards.

 

[Good2Golf]

And it would remain in kreeping with buying American products made in Canada, contribute NORAD and NATO interoperability (USMC), require far less maintainer and pilot re training, and keep their (currently still operating) production lines open etc etc.

So obviously, it will never happen. It just makes too much sense.

I’m sure that year 70-100 of the venerable Huey basic helicopter design with new *gadgets bolted to it would be fine…

 

[Skysix]

No thanks, it looks like a flying hybrid Slap Chop and VegeMatic

Better than 2 palm trees gangbanging a dumpster.

 

[Good2Golf]

Better than 2 palm trees gangbanging a dumpster.

Haven’t heard that one in a while.

 

[Kirkhill]

Bumping this thread to address the Less Than Lethal helicopter requirement....

US Army National Guard and the Airbus Lakota.

Why the enduring Lakota is the workhorse of the US Army and National Guard - Breaking Defense

In its last Southwest border rotation of 24 helicopters over a one-year period, National Guard Lakotas flew nearly 14,000 hours – near combat deployment numbers for these airframes.

breakingdefense.com

Unlike its active counterpart, the National Guard is unique in that it performs a dual role. When the Guard is not deployed forward or serving under federal authority, it operates domestically under the purview of the states ensuring security of the homeland. That is the day-to-day mission of many Guardsmen and where our 212 UH-72A and UH-72B Lakota quietly perform remarkably well.

...missions the Lakota performs day in and day out include patrolling the Southwest border and carrying out counter-drug operations. The Southwest border has been an enduring concern for a long time and the need for surveillance and reconnaissance is increasing over time.

For counter-drug, the Lakota serves in myriad roles and supports civil authorities across the range of local, state and federal government. Aircrews perform a variety of operations including eradication, or, for example they’ll support the Drug Enforcement Agency or the FBI in providing surveillance to collect information and build cases against larger networks.

And then, of course, there are the more visible missions where the aircraft performs exceptionally well. The Lakota routinely supports disaster response and assessments, search and rescue, and at times works in tandem with authorities on firefighting – specifically the wildfires in the Western states.

There are several variations of the UH-72 used by the National Guard: They can be “slick” aircraft, which are utility helicopters without modification. They can be a Mission Equipment Package (MEP) helicopter that can be reconfigured based on the need. Or they can be specifically configured to serve as a MEDEVAC aircraft.

Slick aircraft routinely conduct missions focused on aerial movement of personnel and supplies, but are often used to perform search and rescue or other missions using its equipped hoist. The aircraft has become a staple within the response portfolio of state emergency operations agencies and the National Guard crews often train and partner with highly qualified civilian personnel to improve response capability for high-altitude or swift-water rescues.

MEP-equipped aircraft are equipped with a forward-looking infrared sensor, a searchlight, a data down link that allows for real-time transmission of data and video capturing capability. The primary role of the MEP aircraft is observation and reconnaissance.

As you can see, the Lakota is a multi-role helicopter that can do many things and it does it at a very low cost per flight hour while being easy to maintain. In reality, a Lakota could perform the full range of missions from utility to MEDEVAC to armed reconnaissance, although the aircraft is not currently performing that role within the Army.

 

[KevinB]

Bumping this thread to address the Less Than Lethal helicopter requirement....

US Army National Guard and the Airbus Lakota.

Why the enduring Lakota is the workhorse of the US Army and National Guard - Breaking Defense

In its last Southwest border rotation of 24 helicopters over a one-year period, National Guard Lakotas flew nearly 14,000 hours – near combat deployment numbers for these airframes.

breakingdefense.com

But you already have the Griffon for that role…
Now you need a combat utility helicopter

 

[Kirkhill]

But you already have the Griffon for that role…
Now you need a combat utility helicopter

I'd buy that.

 

[Maxman1]

But you already have the Griffon for that role…
Now you need a combat utility helicopter

Roll the Griffons in, lift up the registration plate, roll helicopter out, roll in UH-1Y, attach registration plate, roll Griffon back out.

I'd buy that.

For a dollar?

 

[daftandbarmy]

But you already have the Griffon for that role…
Now you need a combat peacekeeping utility helicopter

There, fixed that for you

 

[Good2Golf]

There, fixed that for you

You misspelled ‘convening chopper’…

 

[Skysix]

Bumping this thread to address the Less Than Lethal helicopter requirement....

US Army National Guard and the Airbus Lakota.

Why the enduring Lakota is the workhorse of the US Army and National Guard - Breaking Defense

In its last Southwest border rotation of 24 helicopters over a one-year period, National Guard Lakotas flew nearly 14,000 hours – near combat deployment numbers for these airframes.

breakingdefense.com

Based on experience with the EC-145 that the Lakota is based on and discussions with UH-72 pilots, when staffed with 2 pilots and a medic it is suboptimal for the MEDEVAC role, although it is OK for the CASEVAC role as long as you ditch the winch and 4th crewman. Unless you are at sea level in the arctic fall/winter/spring. If we went that route we would need a much newer version with uprated transmission and engines, possibly the 5 blade rotor to be able to lift an equipped fire team of 4 grunts and their kit which can very easily be 1200# or more for any useful distance.

 

[armrdsoul77]

Bell awarded contract to sustain RCAF CH-146 fleet - Skies Mag

...until at least the mid 2030's

 

[YZT580]

Bell awarded contract to sustain RCAF CH-146 fleet - Skies Mag

...until at least the mid 2030's

Doesn't it make sense though? If they started today with an acquisition programmes it would be at least 2025 or later before the competition was completed then add another year for the inevitable appeal. So all being well, and how often does that happen, the contract would be finalized in 2027 with deliveries starting around 2030: again at the earliest. Extending the Griffon now is probably a lot better than scrambling for parts later.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Based on experience with the EC-145 that the Lakota is based on and discussions with UH-72 pilots, when staffed with 2 pilots and a medic it is suboptimal for the MEDEVAC role, although it is OK for the CASEVAC role as long as you ditch the winch and 4th crewman. Unless you are at sea level in the arctic fall/winter/spring. If we went that route we would need a much newer version with uprated transmission and engines, possibly the 5 blade rotor to be able to lift an equipped fire team of 4 grunts and their kit which can very easily be 1200# or more for any useful distance.

How about the H-145M variant of the EC-145?