cheaters

[brodude]

I was recently talking to a recruiter from the U.S. and we ended up having a conversation about the number of applicants that try to apply to the american military schools with a forged transcript. There has been a couple students that have recently confessed to have not even graduated high school but still managed to get a post secondary education with the military with a fake transcript. Apparently its pretty big news over there. It got me thinking, why do we never hear about that in canada? what is the process for verifying the authenticity of transcripts? are canadians just too honest or do we have a good system for filtering out fakes and verifying if they are real or not? 

 

[Pelorus]

Interesting question.  Here's what happened with regards to my application (anecdotal, so read into it what you will).

When I obtained a HS transcript from my school to submit to my local CFRC (I am still being processed), my school printed it on official letterhead, sealed it in an envelope, stamped it, and signed on the envelope crease so it couldn't easily be tampered with.  They also offered to send my marks directly to the CFRC if required so it wouldn't be in my possession at any point (standard protocol for applying to civilian universities I believe).

When I brought it in, and told the recruiter that it could be sent directly if needed, he told me it wasn't necessary, and the impression that I got from him was that I could have just brought in a photocopy.  This really surprised me, because with the availability of programs like Photoshop these days, it seems to me it would be an easy thing to forge.  I would imagine that trying to forge a document like this would catch up with someone in the long run, but the whole thing seemed rather lackadaisical in my opinion.

Regards.

 

[mantai]

interesting indeed..I was reading the "how to apply" on the royal military college website, and it explained that although you must provide official records of all previous college and university courses, your highschool transcript can be a mere photocopy. It got me thinking that they must have contact with the highschools or at least share a virtual network associated with them where they are able to see the grades. If not, it seems like it would be too easy to cheat the system. As boot said, transcripts seem like a very easy thing to replicate, especially with a program like photoshop. I do also agree that if someone manages to slip through the cracks, karma will do what it does best.

 

[Roy Harding]

I don't know the in's and out's of the whole thing - but it would seem to me that any forgery would be picked up - probably during the Enhanced Reliability Check.

Why don't one of you try it and let us know how you make out?

 

[Pelorus]

Why don't one of you try it and let us know how you make out?

Heh.  Taking one for the team? 

 

[mantai]

we could all try it and split the fraud charge

 

[George Wallace]

I have a suspicion that you already have.

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

Without getting into details I administered a summary trial for somebody who had made false representations with respect to a high school transcript.  It was not for an RMC application, but the point is that the system has checks.

 

[Strike]

I know a reservist who got booted from the Masters Mil Stud program at RMC halfway through first term because he never did in fact get a bachelor of anything.

 

[Lumber]

For Ontarians, one of the requirements for enrolement at RMC (and in fact any Ontario University) is to have completed 6 grade 12, univeristy level courses. Because you can only take 4 courses a semester, you end up applying for enrolement without actually having met this criteria. The hope is that you will successfully complete the remainder of your courses, and the expectation being that you will supply an updated transcript as soon as it is available. Acceptance into RMC is completed, and offers are sent out before these updated transcripts are ever received. I know of individuals here at RMC who still, in second year, have no gotten around to providing the updated transcripts. They are attending RMC, but RMC's records only show them as having 4 university level highschool credits.

For example, you have to take both elementary chemistry and a third year level chemistry. If you took grade 12 univeristy level chemistry in highschool, then you are exempt from having to take the elementary chemistry. My roommate last year wondered why he was enrolled in elementary chemistry despite having the highschool credit required to have him exempt. When he went to the registrar's office, he discovered they had no record whatsoever of the courses he took in his second semester of highschool.

I would hope that the system has checks, and that no matter what these problems will work themselves out. I'm not so confident however.

Cheers

 

[jalara]

You can provide a copy of your transcripts to start your application, but the originals are required prior to enrolment.

 

[airman87]

As far as I'm concerned for RMC, recruiters will add the mean average of each grade from grade 10-12 then average that out for a total 10-12 average. So say for example you got an average in grade 12 U 80% and through out grades 10-11 you were a slacker, it's all reflected on your transcript. Not like civie Universities where they only take the best 6 Grade12U courses.

"It is also recommended that in order to have a competitive file, applicants have marks of 80% or higher in grades 10, 11 and 12."
-RMC phaphlet

 

[dwalter]

When my recruiters looked at my file, they originally said that my grades were only average (After looking at my sub par grade 10 marks), however after they sat down and totalled them all up however they did it, they turned around and told me that my marks were very competitive, along with the other parts of my application. I guess you just have to do the 'submit and see' strategy. You won't know until you apply.

 

[aesop081]

I guess you just have to do the 'submit and see' strategy. You won't know until you apply.

If people did that, it sure would cut back on the repetitive "what if" questions around here. 


i know, i know........"get back in the box CDN Aviator"

 

[Pelorus]

If people did that, it sure would cut back on the repetitive "what if" questions around here. 


i know, i know........"get back in the box CDN Aviator"

It's a wonder that people somehow managed to get through the application process before the advent of the internet! 

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

Eventually they'll get caught, and then we have a wonderful thing called a 1(d) Release "Release for Misconduct" also translates to can't get a job with any level of government and really lucky if McDonalds picks him up as a 4th round draft pick. (unless of course the fraudulent statement relates to age on enrollment)

 

[ballz]

Somehow I doubt that McDonald's or any low-end job that only requires you to be able to read & write long enough to fill out your application checks to see if you had a Release for Misconduct.

For that matter I'd bet money you could start an apprenticeship in Fort McMurray after one of these releases, and be making 150k a year within 4 years.

 

[George Wallace]

Somehow I doubt that McDonald's or any low-end job that only requires you to be able to read & write long enough to fill out your application checks to see if you had a Release for Misconduct.

For that matter I'd bet money you could start an apprenticeship in Fort McMurray after one of these releases, and be making 150k a year within 4 years.

I guess you missed the point.  You may be right on the Mcdonald's question, but the Fort McMurray part is irrelevant.  It isn't a Government job.  Then again, many of the employers up there also do some background checks as to suitability, and may in fact take that as a sign that you are an 'undesirable'.

 

[TCBF]

It's a wonder that people somehow managed to get through the application process before the advent of the internet! 

- Yup. And we got through it a LOT FASTER back then, too!

 

[George Wallace]

- Yup. And we got through it a LOT FASTER back then, too!

Or so your memory tells you.    ;D