CMMA - replacing the CP140 Aurora

[Maxman1]

We don't have an AEWAC capability. The Hawkeye gives us that. And in the past we used Trackers for short range patrols and the Argus for long range blue water patrol.

 

[dimsum]

We don't have an AEWAC capability. The Hawkeye gives us that. And in the past we used Trackers for short range patrols and the Argus for long range blue water patrol.

If we want AEW&C, the E-7 would be a better fit. It‘s also based off the 737 platform, so a lot of the infra and support requirements are similar, if not the same as, the P-8.

Also, allies already use it (RAAF currently, USAF in the future) so there’s another good reason to adopt it over the E-2C.

 

[lenaitch]

I wonder if Bombardier is following along and saying 'hmmm, we can draw a plane that looks like that and sell it'.

 

[KevinB]

I wonder if Bombardier is following along and saying 'hmmm, we can draw a plane that looks like that and sell it'.

You caught on to their business model…

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I wonder if Bombardier is following along and saying 'hmmm, we can draw a plane that looks like that and sell it'.

I think you meant to write “…we can draw a plane that looks like that and then politically extort money to do nothing…”

 

[Maxman1]

If we want AEW&C, the E-7 would be a better fit. It‘s also based off the 737 platform, so a lot of the infra and support requirements are similar, if not the same as, the P-8.

Also, allies already use it (RAAF currently, USAF in the future) so there’s another good reason to adopt it over the E-2C.

Yes, we should absolutely get the E-7 (it's too bad there’s no E-8 JSTARS replacement), my thinking is having a second fleet of shorter range aircraft would allow for more patrols while reducing wear on both fleets while also allowing the longer range plane to be used for long range patrols.

 

[dimsum]

Yes, we should absolutely get the E-7 (it's too bad there’s no E-8 JSTARS replacement), my thinking is having a second fleet of shorter range aircraft would allow for more patrols while reducing wear on both fleets while also allowing the longer range plane to be used for long range patrols.

Do we need it though? This isn’t WWII where we needed 24/7 air cover - satellites can do a lot of that now for surface surveillance.

As for ASW, without going into specifics, having constant coverage isn’t really feasible for a military of our size.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The RCAF fleet doesn’t routinely “patrol” our coastal waters. There are assets that do that, surface patrols (SURPATs) daily; PAL contracted, TC NASP come to mind.

As Dimsum mentioned, space assets can do part of the job. AIS and other tools are big enablers that negate the need for low and slow fly-by with handheld photography and hails.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The RCAF fleet doesn’t routinely “patrol” our coastal waters. There are assets that do that, surface patrols (SURPATs) daily; PAL contracted, TC NASP come to mind.

As Dimsum mentioned, space assets can do part of the job. AIS and other tools are big enablers that negate the need for low and slow fly-by with handheld photography and hails.

A very excited Pollution Patrol aircraft called us because there was a large fleet of boats with large pumps on the back, they were worried that they might cause a spill. We told them they were looking at the herring fleet and the pumps were for moving fish, not oil. They seemed confused and disappointed.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

A very excited Pollution Patrol aircraft called us because there was a large fleet of boats with large pumps on the back, they were worried that they might cause a spill. We told them they were looking at the herring fleet and the pumps were for moving fish, not oil. They seemed confused and disappointed.

I’d like to think pollution patrols would love to be disappointed something turned out to NOT be pollution? Lol

 

[DBNSG]

A very excited Pollution Patrol aircraft called us because there was a large fleet of boats with large pumps on the back, they were worried that they might cause a spill. We told them they were looking at the herring fleet and the pumps were for moving fish, not oil. They seemed confused and disappointed.

Was that the west Coast Pollution aircraft because I thought the East Coast one has participated in apprehending fugitives. The Cop Killer in Moncton was tracked down by the D-8 with its thermal Camera. Talents in other areas and all that.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Was that the west Coast Pollution aircraft because I thought the East Coast one has participated in apprehending fugitives. The Cop Killer in Moncton was tracked down by the D-8 with its thermal Camera. Talents in other areas and all that.

Yes a red Dash-8-100

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Probably NASP aircraft; https://rusi-ns.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Skopilik_RUSI_NS_2022.pdf

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Probably NASP aircraft; https://rusi-ns.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Skopilik_RUSI_NS_2022.pdf

It would have been a CCG aircraft at that time (1997ish)

 

[captloadie]

Yes, we should absolutely get the E-7 (it's too bad there’s no E-8 JSTARS replacement), my thinking is having a second fleet of shorter range aircraft would allow for more patrols while reducing wear on both fleets while also allowing the longer range plane to be used for long range patrols.

Where we would be find the funding and personnel to fly them? There are already hard decisions that will need to be made to just be able to operate current and near term capacities coming on board. All the good idea fairies who are suggesting anything more than what we currently have on the books need to go back to their dells and give the RCAF a couple of years to stabilize and determine what the hell can actually be accomplished with who and what we have.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Where we would be find the funding and personnel to fly them? There are already hard decisions that will need to be made to just be able to operate current and near term capacities coming on board. All the good idea fairies who are suggesting anything more than what we currently have on the books need to go back to their dells and give the RCAF a couple of years to stabilize and determine what the hell can actually be accomplished with who and what we have.

Well you can have TC buy a bunch of Grey helicopters (same as the CCG ones) and man them with TC personal. They fly off the AOP's during their arctic patrols. TC bills DND for the helicopters and personal. This is what they do for the CCG.

 

[YZT580]

Well you can have TC buy a bunch of Grey helicopters (same as the CCG ones) and man them with TC personal. They fly off the AOP's during their arctic patrols. TC bills DND for the helicopters and personal. This is what they do for the CCG.

do you think TC is going to have any more luck recruiting pilots than the CAF or the airlines? With the cost of fuel being so high the only people who can afford to get a license are foreign students on subsidies and folks who don't need a job in the first place. Airlines are employing people off the street and training them from scratch. Haven't seen any government job posters offering the same incentives

 

[Colin Parkinson]

do you think TC is going to have any more luck recruiting pilots than the CAF or the airlines? With the cost of fuel being so high the only people who can afford to get a license are foreign students on subsidies and folks who don't need a job in the first place. Airlines are employing people off the street and training them from scratch. Haven't seen any government job posters offering the same incentives

TC will have more luck than the CAF and can recruit from industry directly and I known a lot of helicopter pilots that would love to have a steady and much safer work as a TC pilot.

 

[KevinB]

Where we would be find the funding and personnel to fly them? There are already hard decisions that will need to be made to just be able to operate current and near term capacities coming on board. All the good idea fairies who are suggesting anything more than what we currently have on the books need to go back to their dells and give the RCAF a couple of years to stabilize and determine what the hell can actually be accomplished with who and what we have.

Clearly NCM pilots

 

[childs56]

Where we would be find the funding and personnel to fly them? There are already hard decisions that will need to be made to just be able to operate current and near term capacities coming on board. All the good idea fairies who are suggesting anything more than what we currently have on the books need to go back to their dells and give the RCAF a couple of years to stabilize and determine what the hell can actually be accomplished with who and what we have.

Civilians and Air Reserve.
I know of four pilots right now who only have a few hundred hours who would like to build those hours up and fly but making $40,000ish a year wasn't paying the bills and life is expensive. (Their current job gives them mandatory time off paid and unpaid for Military Training/ Deployment).
They do not want to join the Regular Force, But would apply to the Air Reserves if they had a chance to fly. They would not or did not even get a second look.

Well you can have TC buy a bunch of Grey helicopters (same as the CCG ones) and man them with TC personal. They fly off the AOP's during their arctic patrols. TC bills DND for the helicopters and personal. This is what they do for the CCG.

I agree.

do you think TC is going to have any more luck recruiting pilots than the CAF or the airlines? With the cost of fuel being so high the only people who can afford to get a license are foreign students on subsidies and folks who don't need a job in the first place. Airlines are employing people off the street and training them from scratch. Haven't seen any government job posters offering the same incentives

Money talks, Look at training from the start. Lots of younger to be Pilots would love a $60,000 year to train as a pilot.

TC will have more luck than the CAF and can recruit from industry directly and I known a lot of helicopter pilots that would love to have a steady and much safer work as a TC pilot.

I fully agree. Good money and they actually get to fly their entire careers, along with not starting off at as and when jobs