• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Conflict in Darfur, Sudan - The Mega Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter SFontaine
  • Start date Start date
George Wallace said:
"We did not evacuate,'' Blalock stressed. "The program was cut short because tensions were too much.''

Reminds me of another famous quote - "we are not retreating, we are advancing to the rear..."

e·vac·u·ate (ĭ-văk'yū-āt')
v., -at·ed, -at·ing, -ates.
v.tr.
To empty or remove the contents of.
To create a vacuum in.
To relinquish military possession or occupation of (a town, for example).
To withdraw or send away (troops or inhabitants) from a threatened area. <--- I think this applies.
To withdraw or depart from; vacate. <--- likewise.
To excrete or discharge waste matter from (the bowel, for example). <--- good possibility 'because tensions were too much'.
v.intr.
To withdraw from or vacate a place or area, especially as a protective measure. <--- definately aplies
To excrete waste matter from the body.
 
What do all you fine folks think of these comments by him.

"I think it is almost reflective of a banana republic if we can't, as a leading middle power, be able to move forces in those two mission and do it with the capabilities we have," he said.

"In the current situation, after the last two years where the Canadian Forces have been pulling out of UN missions in order to lick their wounds, I believe we can go in as part of a developed world contingent to reinforce the African Union (peacekeepers) for a short period of time."

 
military granny said:
What do all you fine folks think of these comments by him.
"I think it is almost reflective of a banana republic if we can't, as a leading middle power, be able to move forces in those two mission and do it with the capabilities we have," he said.
"In the current situation, after the last two years where the Canadian Forces have been pulling out of UN missions in order to lick their wounds, I believe we can go in as part of a developed world contingent to reinforce the African Union (peacekeepers) for a short period of time."

1) We can do more than two missions with our current capabilities - what matters is whether the missions are within our capabilities!   
2) I would like to know which missions in the last years we have 'pulled out of to lick our wounds?' - more rhetoric?
3) Go in as part of a developed world contingent?  Excellent.  But it would help if he could name countries willing to go in with us.   
 
A very good rebuke. If only all Canadians read and thought critically about defence issues wuch as this one.
 
The Canadian Institute of Strategic Studies recently published a commentary on Darfur and the possibility that if Canadians are deployed to Sudan, they may face Al-Qaeda:
http://www.ciss.ca/Comment_African_Jihad.htm
The most important part of the commentary is here:
Bin Laden qualified his offer of support by noting that it was not his intention to defend the Khartoum government, but to defend Islam. How can you send fighters to a regime that you just announced you don’t particularly support? What would you expect to happen to them once they arrive? If this message is genuinely from bin Laden, it suggests that the terrorist leader has become delusional in his search for a cause to sustain his movement. There is a crime in Islam called fitna; it means creating discord amongst Muslims, and it is one of Islam’s greatest offences. Bin Laden apparently believes that sending Muslims to fight other Muslims is a suitable aim for his movement. Neither Sudan’s government nor the Darfur rebels desire the assistance of al-Qaeda. Should bin Laden’s followers head to Darfur there is no doubt that a hot reception awaits them.
 
Armymatters said:
The Canadian Institute of Strategic Studies recently published a commentary on Darfur and the possibility that if Canadians are deployed to Sudan, they may face Al-Qaeda:
http://www.ciss.ca/Comment_African_Jihad.htm
The most important part of the commentary is here:
I disagree with that quote. Bin Lyin'underarock would be quite welcome in Khartoum after the amount of money he has spent on the place. He has friends in the Khartoum dictatorship, and shares goals with it.
 
Just in case anyone is interested in the peace that needs to be kept in Darfur......

....Two of the main rebel factions fighting the Sudanese government and its allied militias have turned on each other, spurred by ethnic tensions and what appears to be a relentless grab for more territory. Now the rebels have unleashed a tide of violence against the very civilians they once joined forces to protect.

"Right now, we don't have any security problem with the government forces or with the janjaweed," said Lt. Col. Wisdom Bleboo, the commander of 140 African Union troops based in nearby Tawila, referring to the Arab militias that have terrorized the people of Darfur in recent years. "It is only the fighting between the rebel factions that is causing us trouble."

The tactics of the rebels have grown so similar to those of their enemies that an attack on this dusty village on April 19 bore all the marks of the brutal assault that first forced its people to flee their homes three years ago. Soldiers in uniform, backed by men toting machine guns on camels, flooded the village, burning huts, shooting, looting and raping.

Only this time, the soldiers were not government troops, as they had been before. Nor were the men on camels and horseback the fearsome janjaweed, who often destroy villages alongside government forces in a campaign of state-supported murder and rape that the Bush administration has called genocide......

http://www.nytimes.com/learning/students/pop/articles/19sudan.html

Or if that job isn't to your liking how about this one.  It seems the Germans don't want it either.

German Congo mission faces opposition fire
BERLIN (Reuters) - The German government on Friday defended plans to deploy troops to the Democratic Republic of Congo in the face of fierce opposition from critics who called the mission pointless and ill-conceived.

In a speech to the Bundestag lower house of parliament, Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said German involvement in the Congo was justified, but critics demanded more details on a mission that has proved controversial in a country with a strong pacifist streak.

Germany plans to deploy 780 troops to help keep the peace during and after elections scheduled for July 30. ......

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=746832006&source=somnia

16 nations on top of 17,000 UN troops.

So if you get tired of Afghanistan and Darfur isn't your cup of tea maybe you want to try 4 months (extendable) in tropical Congo.  Stay tuned for additional posting opportunities.

 
I wrote a letter to Dallaire (Sorry for not attaching all of his appropriate titles) a month or two ago, and just recently received a reply, (We adressed the topic of the Election and Sudan)

  I am 100% behind Dallaire and his desire to intervine in Sudan/Darfur.  We do not need to allow genocide to be carried on any further.  If intervention is a role Canada and or the UN decided to partake in, I would sign up after I am finished course.  This is Genocide people, lets end it.

Pte. Bradbury
 
There will be no
developed world contingent

From the horse's mouth:

No NATO troops have been or will be deployed to Darfur.
http://www.nato.int/issues/darfur/index.html

Moreover they are not wanted:

"UN diplomats say the force is expected to be largely drawn from African, South Asian and Islamic nations so as to reduce opposition to the move in Khartoum, while the United States and NATO would provide logistical support behind the scenes."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060517.DARFUR17/TPStory/TPInternational/Africa/

Mark
Ottawa
 
Bradbury said:
I wrote a letter to Dallaire (Sorry for not attaching all of his appropriate titles) a month or two ago, and just recently received a reply, (We adressed the topic of the Election and Sudan)

  I am 100% behind Dallaire and his desire to intervine in Sudan/Darfur.  We do not need to allow genocide to be carried on any further.  If intervention is a role Canada and or the UN decided to partake in, I would sign up after I am finished course.  This is Genocide people, lets end it.

Pte. Bradbury

If you or Senator Dallaire have been paying attention to the ground truth about the Sudan (as discussed here and in other places), then you realize you are calling for an invasion of a sovereign nation by Canada, alone, without international sanction or approval.

The fact this nation you propose to invade is halfway around the world, is full of armed militias and a functioning military, has the tacit backing of China and an undeveloped infrastructure should also help guide your thinking a bit.
 
Why is it that everybody who opposes us being in Afghanistan, a place where our own national security and treaty obligations sent us, wants us in Sudan, where we have neither?  We have supplied materiel and funds for the African Union troops, and if they request technical assistance, I'm sure we can shake loose some technical advisers, but the boots on the ground have to be African, or this mission will not work.
 
And of course, the people who want us to go to Dafur want us to go under the command of the UN:

http://freewillblog.com/  27 May 2006

United Nations: The World's Mall Cops

While much of the world rushes toward the sound of screaming and gunfire...

    Many dead in chaotic East Timor, where Australian forces are seeking to halt the bloodshed....They'll be joined by New Zealand troops, finally deployed following days of Clarkish dithering....Forces from Malaysia and Portugal are also soon to arrive.

...one force flees, profoundly useless in a crisis:

    The UN is planning to evacuate the majority of its 300 to 400 staff in East Timor, possibly from today.

A liberal friend of mine, when asked why she was obsessed with defending the United Nations, once said that it was because "it's all we have", apparently unaware of the fact that countries can take action for themselves.

Once we have rebuilt the Forces so we can "take action for ourselves", then we can talk.
 
Here is some late news on the situation, available at:http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/06/07/darfur-wed.html

UN peacekeepers heading to Darfur, group agrees
Last Updated Wed, 07 Jun 2006 16:06:28 EDT
CBC News
The UN Security Council and the African Union have agreed that a UN force should take over peacekeeping in Sudan's Darfur region, once they have the approval of the Sudanese government.

They also agreed Wednesday to quickly reinforce the African troops now on the ground.

The decision came Wednesday when a high-level Security Council delegation met with the African Union Commission, the executive body of the 53-member AU.

"In Darfur, we share the same point of view," said commission chairman Alpha Oumar Konare. "We need to hand over the baton to the UN. There is a necessity today to implement the Darfur Peace Agreement."

But extra troops are needed, he said.

Optimistic about UN force

"The AU today does not have the resources to be there," Konare said. "We have to be clear about that. We don't have the capacity to face a peacekeeping situation or an extended conflict."

The group was optimistic that Khartoum would agree to a UN force, despite its previous reluctance to accept outside help.

Khartoum's agreement was necessary, Korare said, because "Sudan's sovereignty has to be respected. We have to have a dialogue with Sudan. The troops are not coming to start a war with Sudan."

Said Djinnat, commissioner for the AU Peace and Security Council, told the Associated Press he was working to upgrade the 7,000-member UN force so it has the ability to carry out all the requirements of a peace agreement signed May 5 by the Sudanese government and the largest rebel group in Darfur.

NATO supplying support

Djinnat said several battalions are likely to be added to the AU force over the next few months.  "I can tell you that it could be raised to the level of 10,000," he told AP.

The additional troops would likely come from Rwanda, Nigeria and Ghana. NATO would likely provide helicopters and other logistical support, while the AU police force in Darfur will also likely be doubled to 2,000.

The next step is the arrival Friday in Khartoum of a joint UN-AU team that will hold talks with the Sudanese government next week and then head to Darfur to make a technical assessment for a possible UN peacekeeping mission.

The team will then report back to the Sudanese government and its own leaders.

Britain's UN ambassador, Emyr Jones Parry, head of the Security Council delegation, said the Security Council and the AU agree that the "transition should take place, and that by the beginning of next year there should be a United Nations operation, and it should do so recognizing that it will need to have a strong African character."

It looks like there was (and is...) no desire to have non-African troops involved. On top of that, (as a number of posters have pointed out...) there was no resolution to even permit our presence under the UN. Far better, I think, that we end up giving some technical or log help under the NATO umbrella mentioned above. Hopefully the Darfur ranters will take note.

Cheers
 
pbi said:
Hopefully the Darfur ranters will take note.
The eternal optimist, eh  ;)

According to today's BBC, the ongoing talks see the United Nations taking over the "peacekeeping" operation [my emphasis - - with 200,000 dead and 2 million displaced since 2003, even the NDP would be hard-pressed to call this peacekeeping ::)]. But Sudan is still not buying in, saying any extra UN money should go to the AU. So don't pack your rucks just yet.

If the UN takes over, it will be to merely add its legendary command capabilities and administrative efficiencies onto the dogpile, since AU troops will remain the basis of the field force. Maj-Gen Ihekire, the AU's Nigerian Force Commander, justifies their failure: "If someone hasn't got wings and you say he has failed to fly - I don't think you can call that failure." I would have thought that if one is tasked to stop the killing...and the killing isn't stopped....there might be an appropriate word for that, such as "failure." [I've been known to use words like "responsibility" and "leadership" too, but I'm old-fashioned that way]

So you would have an AU-based force, which acknowledges that it does not have the capability to solve the problem, but now operating under UN command - - the people who have recently demonstrated a complete absence of:
-resolve in Rwanda,
-new thinking in Cyprus,
-economic responsibility with Iraqi oil,
-combat effectiveness in the Congo
....need I go on?

No, what I get out of the CBC report is more grist for the "deploy CF to Darfur" dingbats advocates, whose understanding of the situation is only headline deep. If one actually reads the articles, it appears less likely CF troops will be deploying there (unless we just ignore that troublesome Sudanese sovereignty thing....as the Liberal Defence Critic is wont to do). The headline, however, will have the soapbox experts shouting that now there's no reason to stay in Afghanistan, when we can be blue-hatted, loved-by-all, peacekeepers in sunny Darfur.  ::)

[Now, to hedge my bets, don't discount Op AUGURAL (support for Sudan ops, predominantly in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia) expanding  ;) ]



 
From Tuesday's Ottawa Citizen at: http://server09.densan.ca/archivenews/060608/cit/060608bq.htm

Dallaire should show some courage himself

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last week, Liberal Senator Romeo Dallaire slammed Prime Minister Stephen Harper for what he called "an acute lack of courage." His wording was somewhat convoluted; however, it seems he was attempting to say that the prime minister was exploiting divisions within the Liberal party regarding the current mission in Afghanistan for short-term partisan reasons, and this equated to a lack of "courage."

If my interpretation is correct, and a review of his comments would suggest that is the case, the hypocrisy contained in his comments is blatant and disturbing, to say the least.

In Senator Dallaire we have someone who, two years ago, prior to his accepting a partisan appointment to the Senate, was part of the chorus rightly calling for western military intervention, primarily from NATO countries, to stop the genocide taking place in the Darfur region of Sudan. On taking his seat in the Senate he immediately abandoned his professional judgment and limited operational background gained from his experience commanding the largest operational failure in the UN's history.

He could have been a strong voice for intervention by professional militaries to stop the genocide, but instead opted to abandon his principles and, displaying "an acute lack of courage" himself, vocally supported a flawed Liberal foreign-policy decision to merely help the inadequate African Union peacekeeping force with some cash, vehicles and a handful of advisers, saying that was enough for Canada to contribute.

To make matters worse, following a short visit to the Darfur area he yet again displayed an astounding lack of military judgment -- or succumbed to partisan pressure, or both -- when he opined that the situation for the victims of the genocide was improving. The fact that fewer victims were being slaughtered because the genocide was working and therefore there were fewer people left to kill was presumably not considered.

In a bizarre change of heart, the senator went on to suggest that those of us who continued to call for western intervention were recommending a racist solution: "Anybody who says that the era of the white man going into Africa and sorting out their problems ... should remain is someone who's totally disconnected from the reality of Africa" was his response.

Senator Dallaire held his anti-western-intervention opinion for the relatively short period prior to the defeat of the Liberal government. Then, completing a 360-degree change of course he returned to his original call for western intervention in Darfur -- presumably ready to accept the mantle of racist by his own definition. His weak excuse for the change of heart was that the situation in Darfur had deteriorated since his visit, a statement not substantiated by the facts, which suggests a lack of military awareness when he visited the area, or once again "an acute lack of courage" to disagree with his party's stand on Darfur.

Lest the reader assume that this is a partisan rebuttal to Senator Dallaire's inconsistent utterances on the tragic situation on Darfur, let me state that I disagree with the current government's policy regarding the crisis. It has been stated on a regular basis that due to our current commitment in Afghanistan the Canadian Forces would be incapable of deploying a substantial force to Darfur. This is only the case due to the outdated procedure of limiting a unit's overseas tour to six months. This was the policy from the 1960s to the 1990s, as it was usual for the UN Security Council to renew the authorizing mandate for each UN peacekeeping mission every six months.

It drove UN commanders crazy, as it meant all your units left at the same time and every six months you had new inexperienced units feeling their way. Fortunately, a number of national contingents were chronically late arriving in theatre, so there was some staggering of the end-of-tour rotation dates thanks to their inefficient arrival. There was no "tour length" in the First and Second World Wars. Units deployed to Korea for a minimum of one year.

My view will be highly unpopular with those soldiers currently serving in Afghani-stan, but I contend that it would be possible, if we are serious about putting boots on the ground in Darfur, to extend the current tour of duty for our soldiers in Afghanistan to one year and deploy the unit currently training to replace them in August to Darfur. I am not recommending that this be done, but because it could be, the excuse should not be made that we are incapable of sending a significant unit of 1,000 soldiers to Darfur.

Meanwhile, Senator Dallaire should take his lead from his Liberal colleague Senator Colin Kenny, who frequently comments that the Senate should be a non-partisan body as much as possible -- frequently setting an outstanding example himself.

If there is a clear "acute lack of moral courage," it is demonstrated by those who know better than partisan politics dictate and capitulate to their own self-interest.

Retired general Lewis MacKenzie was the first commander of the UN's Sector Sarajevo during the Bosnia civil war.

Hmmm. The knives are out. What do we all think about Gen Lew recommending that rotating TFs do a year in theatre?

Cheers

 
Hmmm. The knives are out. What do we all think about Gen Lew recommending that rotating TFs do a year in theatre?

It provides operational flexibility in terms of force generation/force employment but there are significant effects on personnel (both during the year and after the deployment).  Recent US Army and US Marine reporting indicates there is a move towards a shorter deployment schedule, similar to our current doctrine.  Is it worth it for us to change it?

Source - See the DOD Law of War Amendment

2-War's Toll On The Living Spurs Call to Shorten Army Tours.

The amendment's easy passage demonstrated how concerned lawmakers from both parties have been over the adverse impact that year-long tours in Iraq and Afghanistan have had on Army active-duty and reserve troops -- and their families. The Marine Corps, by comparison, typically deploys units for seven months at a time.

The amendment demands an Army study weighing the potential benefits and drawbacks of reducing deployment times. The review would begin 90 days after enactment of the authorization bill.

It also includes language that urges the Army secretary to consider the benefits six-month deployments would have on morale, recruiting, retention and readiness.
 
Goes without saying that year long deployments would hamperthe ability of many reservists to support missions and increase the burden on Regular Force units. The cons are obvious.

Mackenzie certainly pulled no punches in this article re: Dallaire. But doesn't seem to explain the pros of year-long deployments other than vaguely.
 
+1 on the 1 yr tour(although the wife would hate it and no kids)

Unfortunately

+1 with Uncle Lew too. I was appalled at the Sen.'s change of heart/mind/tactical awareness.
 
The only (dubious) advantage I can see in a one year tour at this stage is that it would allow the government to deploy a contingent to Darfur. Balance that against the havoc taking on another major commitment would create and the lack of flexibility we would have to cope with a major crisis and it becomes a not very good idea.

I am a bit surprised at the nasty tone of some of the comments Lew made about Romeo, which are out of character. I suspect there is a degree of exasperation at the blatant political flip-flopping in the senator's position coming to the fore here.
 
Back
Top