Cost of housing in Canada

[Kirkhill]

And yet somehow Ontario managed to get this far without a goverment issueing MZO's in unprecedented numbers and unilaterally expounding city development boundaries against the wishes of all interested parties- to the sole benefit of their doners.

Ontario has been sold, and it seems a large swathe of this site's base have decided its ok because of the jersey colour of the seller

My contention has nothing at all to do with the Maple Leafs and the Argos. My contention is that Toronto's development community, like every other development community, every where, every time, seeks to increase the value of their investments by spreading their influence. Every time they meet a border, a boundary, a wall, a fence, they seek to control that which is on the other side. They do it by whatever means are the cheapest.

It applies to Toronto. It applies to Ottawa and Montreal. It applies to the City of New York and the City of London and I don't doubt it applies to Mexico City, New Delhi and Beijing.

City states are.

 

[IKnowNothing]

So it’s your contention that Ontario was just sold recently by one colour of jersey?

No, my contention is exactly what was stated. The Ford governent has a clear agenda to enable their buddies wherever they can- local governance, local desire, and planning best practice be damned.

We had an exchange not 2 months ago where you made it very clear that you considered that higher levels of government imposing their wants for land use planning was a major threat to our freedom. Hell, the municipalities themselves doing something you didnt like was compared to a charter breach. Now the boogeyman is actually happening - a higher government is romping around imposing planning decisions contrary to the wants of the locals - and all its all cool.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Every time they meet a border, a boundary, a wall, a fence, they seek to control that which is on the other side. They do it by whatever means are the cheapest.

And it would seem that buying a premier is a pretty efficient investment

 

[Kirkhill]

No, my contention is exactly what was stated. The Ford governent has a clear agenda to enable their buddies wherever they can- local governance, local desire, and planning best practice be damned.

We had an exchange not 2 months ago where you made it very clear that you considered that higher levels of government imposing their wants for land use planning was a major threat to our freedom. Hell, the municipalities themselves doing something you didnt like was compared to a charter breach. Now the boogeyman is actually happening - a higher government is romping around imposing planning decisions contrary to the wants of the locals - and all its all cool.

I'll jump in again.

It is not "all cool". It just "is". In this instance my ox isn't being gored so my level of outrage is considerably less than it would be if boundaries that I didn't vote for were sucking up my home. Some fights are worth fighting. Most aren't just because there isn't enough energy for them all.

 

[Kirkhill]

And it would seem that buying a premier is a pretty efficient investment

Yup.

Prime Ministers and Presidents are pretty cheap too.

Did you ever listen to Phil Hammond, David Cameron's Chancellor of the Exchequer, talking to the owners of British businesses, many of them European multi-nationals and strong supporters of the City wings of both the Tories and Labour? He assured them that Brexit was under control and that it could be reversed.

No-deal Brexit could be ‘taken off the table’, admits chancellor

'The government is not in control of this,' chancellor admits

www.independent.co.uk

What business leaders said on the Brexit conference call, perhaps | Financial Times

Stand back Mr Hammond, the answer you are seeking does not lie in a spreadsheet

www.ft.com

Philip Hammond tells business no-deal Brexit will be stopped

The chancellor also told executives that article 50 could be rescinded during leaked call

www.theguardian.com

And that is why many people have mixed feelings about the deposition of Boris Johnson and Liz Truss and the installation of Rishi Sunak by The City. Why the Greeks and Italians have soured on elections after their electoral choices were punted by the EU and replaced by technocrats like Mario Draghi. And why half of Americans are buying Donald Trump coffee mugs this morning. They can afford to buy shares in him. Biden shares are too rich for most folks.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

And yet somehow Ontario managed to get this far without a goverment issueing MZO's in unprecedented numbers and unilaterally expounding city development boundaries against the wishes of all interested parties- to the sole benefit of their doners.

Ontario has been sold, and it seems a large swathe of this site's base have decided its ok because of the jersey colour of the seller

If I read it right, the land was already long 'sold', so I'm not sure if your more worried about colours, or what actually transpired.

 

[IKnowNothing]

If I read it right, the land was already long 'sold', so I'm not sure if your more worried about colours, or what actually transpired.

Im worried about the multi year trend, culminating in the public outing of one particular decision in a portfolio of dubious as blatantly corrupt- which calls for more scrutiny into the rest.

The colours remark is not about Ford ( I voted for him) but rather the posters that are willing to excuse the above

 

[Brad Sallows]

Some parties give away sh!t to unions, some give away sh!t to capitalists, some give away sh!t to voters. Anyone who wants to clamp down on all that, fill your boots.

 

[Good2Golf]

No, my contention is exactly what was stated. The Ford governent has a clear agenda to enable their buddies wherever they can- local governance, local desire, and planning best practice be damned.

We had an exchange not 2 months ago where you made it very clear that you considered that higher levels of government imposing their wants for land use planning was a major threat to our freedom. Hell, the municipalities themselves doing something you didnt like was compared to a charter breach. Now the boogeyman is actually happening - a higher government is romping around imposing planning decisions contrary to the wants of the locals - and all its all cool.

Don’t mistake my not thinking Ford is orders-of-magnitude worse than the Trudeaus/Wynnes/McGuintys for believing that Ford and his Housing Minister’s COS and others shouldn’t be investigated by appropriate means.

If I read it right, the land was already long 'sold', so I'm not sure if your more worried about colours, or what actually transpired.

…and the $8.3B amount was a potentially realizable amount of profits on future sales that the Auditor supposed, not a real number that can be actuarially measured. Thus it can’t be used reasonably as a ‘smoking gun’ real number in the same sense as the billions of taxpayers’ real money misappropriated/water/misspent that did happen in the past. I read the auditors report, which ignored the potential impact of a 2024/2025 recession as it was generously compounding the develepers’ profits. It also conveniently didn’t give a full assessment of the total accrued real estate development equity in play where the $8.3B profit would supposedly happen…funny that the total equity number wasn’t derived with same vigor as the potential profit figure…

 

[Kirkhill]

Don’t mistake my not thinking Ford is orders-of-magnitude worse than the Trudeaus/Wynnes/McGuintys for believing that Ford and his Housing Minister’s COS and others shouldn’t be investigated by appropriate means.



…and the $8.3B amount was a potentially realizable amount of profits on future sales that the Auditor supposed, not a real number that can be actuarially measured. Thus it can’t be used reasonably as a ‘smoking gun’ real number in the same sense as the billions of taxpayers’ real money misappropriated/water/misspent that did happen in the past. I read the auditors report, which ignored the potential impact of a 2024/2025 recession as it was generously compounding the develepers’ profits. It also conveniently didn’t give a full assessment of the total accrued real estate development equity in play where the $8.3B profit would supposedly happen…funny that the total equity number wasn’t derived with same vigor as the potential profit figure…

Auditors seem to have wonderful imaginations.... would that they would stick to the numbers they know.

 

[mariomike]

As far as residential re-zoning and creating new housing in the "yellow-belt" goes, interesting what they did with our neighborhood Legion branch, when it shut down.

2 Beds | 2 Baths | 2,500 ft²

This is from a few years ago.

72 Durie Street, Toronto, ON M6S 3E8 2 Bedroom Apartment for $4,850/month - Zumper

View 72 Durie Street, Toronto, ON M6S 3E8 rent availability including the monthly rent price and browse photos of this 2 bed, 2 bath, 2500 Sq. Ft. loft.

www.zumper.com

 

[suffolkowner]

If I read it right, the land was already long 'sold', so I'm not sure if your more worried about colours, or what actually transpired.

Mostly/partially correct

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/developer-greenbelt-additional-properties-1.6664326

Developers who bought Ontario Greenbelt land linked to Ford government

A substantial piece of the Greenbelt sold for $80-million, weeks before government publicly revealed its plans

www.theglobeandmail.com

"The buyer was TACC Developments (Block 41) Inc., which is controlled by prominent developer Silvio De Gasperis and members of his family. Property records indicate a loan of $100-million from CIBC at an annual interest rate of 21 per cent. TACC did not respond to requests for comment about the purchase and loan until after this article was published. The company later said in a statement that the loan for the purchase was $30-million at a rate of prime plus 75 basis points."

Don’t mistake my not thinking Ford is orders-of-magnitude worse than the Trudeaus/Wynnes/McGuintys for believing that Ford and his Housing Minister’s COS and others shouldn’t be investigated by appropriate means.



…and the $8.3B amount was a potentially realizable amount of profits on future sales that the Auditor supposed, not a real number that can be actuarially measured. Thus it can’t be used reasonably as a ‘smoking gun’ real number in the same sense as the billions of taxpayers’ real money misappropriated/water/misspent that did happen in the past. I read the auditors report, which ignored the potential impact of a 2024/2025 recession as it was generously compounding the develepers’ profits. It also conveniently didn’t give a full assessment of the total accrued real estate development equity in play where the $8.3B profit would supposedly happen…funny that the total equity number wasn’t derived with same vigor as the potential profit figure…

when you pay yourself to do the servicing a lot of money can disappear. Im not sure how a 2024 recession impacts as I have a hard time seeing how these lands receive priority development attention. Where are the plans? Are they approved? Where are the services? Whos installing them?

Whos paying for them? Not too long ago the municipalities lost their case at the OMB to get development charges to fully pay for development now these lands are not going to be subject to development charges at all. Id hate to be a taxpayer in one of those municipalities

 

[Kirkhill]

when you pay yourself to do the servicing a lot of money can disappear. Im not sure how a 2024 recession impacts as I have a hard time seeing how these lands receive priority development attention. Where are the plans? Are they approved? Where are the services? Whos installing them?

Whos paying for them? Not too long ago the municipalities lost their case at the OMB to get development charges to fully pay for development now these lands are not going to be subject to development charges at all. Id hate to be a taxpayer in one of those municipalities

Umpteen years ago I ran into this in Edmonton at the Gainers meat packing plant after it had been bought by a chap name of Peter Pocklington. He was still trying to recoup his investment in Wayne Gretzky at the time.

The management at Gainers was just trying to get the feel of their new bosses while I was trying to sell them some chunks of stainless steel to solve production problems. It was then that we discovered I was no longer talking to the right people.

The parking lot needed re-paving. The local management went out and got bids from local contractors and submitted the request to the new management for approval to go ahead and purchase the service. The new management told them they didn't need to worry their pretty little heads about such mundane matters anymore. Management would take care of it for them. Sure enough, within a week or so the parking lot was resurfaced and lined out. Gainers then got notified that they would be charged by management not just for the resurfacing but for the service supplied by management, a fee two or three times the cost of the resurfacing, the interest on the fee until the fee was paid off, and an increase in their annual overhead costs for business support.

Nice work if you can get it.

 

[mariomike]

1,203 sq. feet of living space for $4 million.

If you don't mind living in a laneway.

A Toronto house with a unique feature just hit the market for almost $4M

It wasn't too long ago when laneway houses were pretty much non-existent. But after that red tape got cut in 2018, we've had the pleasure of seeing...

www.blogto.com

 

[Furniture]

1,203 sq. feet of living space for $4 million.

If you don't mind living in a laneway.

A Toronto house with a unique feature just hit the market for almost $4M

It wasn't too long ago when laneway houses were pretty much non-existent. But after that red tape got cut in 2018, we've had the pleasure of seeing...

www.blogto.com

It's a nice place, though stupidly expensive.

Your price is a bit off though, the $4million is for both the laneway house, and the main four bedroom house.

 

[mariomike]

Your price is a bit off though, the $4million is for both the laneway house, and the main four bedroom house.

Thanks. Didn't see that.

This is the ad. 5 beds + den, and 7 baths. 3,000 to 3,500 sq. feet.

450 Roxton Rd | 5 Beds + 1 | 7 Baths

View photos and details for C6733386

strata.ca

 

[Furniture]

It seems that even three of the big banks are weighing in on how federal policies are impacting housing costs.

Federal policies made housing crisis inevitable

Canada nearly tripled the number of international students, and wants to double the number of immigrants since 2015.

 

[CBH99]

It seems that even three of the big banks are weighing in on how federal policies are impacting housing costs.

Federal policies made housing crisis inevitable

Canada nearly tripled the number of international students, and wants to double the number of immigrants since 2015.

WE NEED THAT FACEPALM EMOJI!

 

[CBH99]

Umpteen years ago I ran into this in Edmonton at the Gainers meat packing plant after it had been bought by a chap name of Peter Pocklington. He was still trying to recoup his investment in Wayne Gretzky at the time.

The management at Gainers was just trying to get the feel of their new bosses while I was trying to sell them some chunks of stainless steel to solve production problems. It was then that we discovered I was no longer talking to the right people.

The parking lot needed re-paving. The local management went out and got bids from local contractors and submitted the request to the new management for approval to go ahead and purchase the service. The new management told them they didn't need to worry their pretty little heads about such mundane matters anymore. Management would take care of it for them. Sure enough, within a week or so the parking lot was resurfaced and lined out. Gainers then got notified that they would be charged by management not just for the resurfacing but for the service supplied by management, a fee two or three times the cost of the resurfacing, the interest on the fee until the fee was paid off, and an increase in their annual overhead costs for business support.

Nice work if you can get it.

I just wanna make sure I am following this correctly...

Management said "don't worry about this stuff, we got it covered..." And then went on to pay someone to do the job at a substantially higher cost than the bids that had been submitted??

(Tossedsome company money to a friend of theirs?)

 

[Kirkhill]

I just wanna make sure I am following this correctly...

Management said "don't worry about this stuff, we got it covered..." And then went on to pay someone to do the job at a substantially higher cost than the bids that had been submitted??

(Tossedsome company money to a friend of theirs?)

Not quite.

The holding company bought the paving service on the market at the market rate rather than letting the subsidiary buy it directly. The holding company then charged the packers for the paving service plus a fee for their service.

That moves money from the subsidiary to the holding company. That allows for adjusting profits and losses which in turn allows for tax advantages. It can be especially advantageous if the holding company is an offshore company working under a different tax regime. Other ways to move money are to loan the money to the subsidiary and pull back the interest over time. Yet another option is to charge the subsidiary a market support fee.