CSOR and JTF2 Physical Fitness tests - what they are, minimum standard, etc

[Sythen]

Hey man people changed I have learned more.  Now I realize being the fittest person in the platoon makes it so much easier on you.  Generally you only go as hard as the weakest quarter of people.

: Take a wild guess at how much they will slow down for people in selection courses? Being fit is important, but being "average" (and I use that term loosely because the average on selection is probably more fit than I've ever been) and tough is better than being the most fit, but not tough.

 

[xxmixkexx]

: Take a wild guess at how much they will slow down for people in selection courses? Being fit is important, but being "average" (and I use that term loosely because the average on selection is probably more fit than I've ever been) and tough is better than being the most fit, but not tough.

yes I do agree with this fully.

 

[xxmixkexx]

also sorry to turn your thread into a flame war!  That was not my intention.  Your best bet would be follow a program similiar to military athlete, sofwods, or sealfit untill you are prepping for selection.  Those programs are designed to start 12 weeks out so you peak on your selection.

 

[The_Falcon]

To me that sounds like something too lazy to train hard would say.  If you are extremely fit the suffering they put you through is not nearly as hard compared to if you are unfit.  That helps you recover much faster and have more energy.  Just my opinion tho.

Excuse me??  Go f**k yourself.  You think you gotta what it takes but your money where your mouth is, and try out for something, until then STFU.

 

[blacktriangle]

Sorry to bring this one up again but I feel I have a few things to add. Just a few experiences from completing the JTF 2 program.

1. Concur with Haggis; This program is very time consuming. I was lucky enough to complete one workout a day during work hours.  I'm a single guy with no kids or any major responsibilities, and it still wasn't easy. I was doing laundry and eating constantly.

2. Diet is crucial. I don't know how to cook to save my life. Ended up relying on protein shakes a lot even though it says not to. For me, it wasn't so much that the individual workouts were demanding (well - they were...but) as it was the sheer volume of training, day in, day out. I guess that's the idea.

3. If you can't achieve the minimums on the PT test for assaulter, don't even bother. Not trying to be mean, but if you don't have a good overall fitness base, you aren't going to be able to push hard enough to gain from this program.


I've heard through the rumour mill that some bases/units cut their applicants loose for a few months under the direction of PSP to prepare for selection. Anyone heard of this, or was it just heresay? I think it'd be great if applied properly, but I think there's also something to be said for someone that can fit it in with their life, as it shows dedication.

P.S. I had great results with this. I intend to try it again at some point...if anyone has a cute female friend that knows how to cook and likes to do laundry, send her my way!

P.P.S No Petawawa chicks!

 

[Infanteer]

Excuse me??  Go f**k yourself.  You think you gotta what it takes but your money where your mouth is, and try out for something, until then STFU.

Manners.

 

[MikeL]

I've heard through the rumour mill that some bases/units cut their applicants loose for a few months under the direction of PSP to prepare for selection. Anyone heard of this, or was it just heresay?

In Petawawa, PSP staff run a morning(not sure if theres afternoon)PT class for people who want to go on various CANSOF selections.  Don't know anything about it though.  I would assume the members requested through CoC to be exempt from unit PT in order to do the PT classes with PSP to prepare for the PT on selection.

 

[Jarnhamar]

In Petawawa, PSP staff run a morning(not sure if theres afternoon)PT class for people who want to go on various CANSOF selections.  Don't know anything about it though.  I can't see  units "cutting loose" their troops for a few months,  unless you just mean for the daily PT class with PSP instead of unit PT, then return to their units for work after the class.

Some memo savvy individuals have put memos in to do PT on their own while training for selection and had it accepted.

PSP runs pre-selection classes for people that pass the (pre-selection) cansof fitness tests. Members need CoC approval.

 

[MikeL]

disregard

 

[Jarnhamar]

I am aware that people can put in memos asking for exemption from unit PT to train for CANSOF selection, etc  I didn't say you couldn't in my post... 


*edited my original post to avoid any confusion

Sorry brah  ;D

I just included the bit about the PT on your own because I figured it fell under 'cutting troops loose for a few months' basically.

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

Looking at both programs and seeing that the candidates are similarly assessed, the question that comes to mind is why are the programs so different?

thing that comes to mind right off the bat, is the strength training in the CSOR program is far better designed, yet both JTF2 and CSOR are tested on pull-ups, push-ups and 1RM bench for strength.

I can see the running being different to a degree since the run times for JTF2 are faster, but I would not think they would differ that much since CSOR level 3 which is what they say it will bring you to by the end of it, is 8:45-9mins for a 2400m run, which is also within acceptable time for JTF2.

I would love to pick the developers brains as to why the vast differences, and also wondering if there is a CJIRU -  CBRN Op pre-selection fitness program in the pipeline, and if not which would those candidates be better served to use (CSOR or JTF2)

 

[PuckChaser]

and also wondering if there is a CJIRU -  CBRN Op pre-selection fitness program in the pipeline, and if not which would those candidates be better served to use (CSOR or JTF2)

Do one of the programs in MOPP 4, voila - CBRN Op fitness program.

 

[The_Falcon]

Looking at both programs and seeing that the candidates are similarly assessed, the question that comes to mind is why are the programs so different?

thing that comes to mind right off the bat, is the strength training in the CSOR program is far better designed, yet both JTF2 and CSOR are tested on pull-ups, push-ups and 1RM bench for strength.

I can see the running being different to a degree since the run times for JTF2 are faster, but I would not think they would differ that much since CSOR level 3 which is what they say it will bring you to by the end of it, is 8:45-9mins for a 2400m run, which is also within acceptable time for JTF2.

I would love to pick the developers brains as to why the vast differences, and also wondering if there is a CJIRU -  CBRN Op pre-selection fitness program in the pipeline, and if not which would those candidates be better served to use (CSOR or JTF2)

The last time the JTF 2 program was updated was 2006, CSOR was stood up afterwards.  It also had the benefit of the CrossFit/Infantry school study and the development of the Combat Fitness Program.  For all we know "they" could be developing a new JTF 2 program, or they are statisfied that it suits their needs, for their selection process (which could be vastly different from CSOR, since they have two different mission profiles).

 

[blacktriangle]

For whatever it's worth, I just pulled open my copy of the JTF 2 program (2006) and a CSOR one I have (2009 - not sure if this is up to date) and the second week of the JTF 2 program has 10 workouts in comparison to the 8 of the second week of the CSOR program. Is the difference between an operator and an assaulter down to 2 workouts a week? No, I don't think it's that simple. As Hatchet Man said they are two different units so comparing their pre-selection programs might be a moot point. As long as candidates are preparing themselves better, and the units are receiving higher quality applicants, the aim has been achieved.

If anyone really wanted to be hardcore, why not just "cycle" them? Do them each once a year to completion. There's almost half a year's worth of excellent PT. You might need the other half for rehydrating, sleeping, and administering anti inflammatory meds, but where's the fun in PT without some of that...right?

 

[Mike92]

Hey everyone,

I was looking on the RMC website under the fitness test and one must be able to do 77 pushups to get the highest level possible. OK, that makes sense, but then I came across the JTF2 level 7 (maximum) standard and it's 55 pushups. ???

I would think that the requirements for someone in JTF2 would be MUCH higher then the requirements for an Officer Cadet (absolutely NO disrespect for Officer Cadets of course). It's possible that the material I was reading about JTF2 was outdated or incorrect, but I've seen this stuff on many sites, I think this one as well. Or is fitness valued more for future CF leaders then SOF members?

Any thoughts?


With respect,

Mike92

 

[MJP]

Hey everyone,

I was looking on the RMC website under the fitness test and one must be able to do 77 pushups to get the highest level possible. OK, that makes sense, but then I came across the JTF2 level 7 (maximum) standard and it's 55 pushups. ???

I would think that the requirements for someone in JTF2 would be MUCH higher then the requirements for an Officer Cadet (absolutely NO disrespect for Officer Cadets of course). It's possible that the material I was reading about JTF2 was outdated or incorrect, but I've seen this stuff on many sites, I think this one as well. Or is fitness valued more for future CF leaders then SOF members?

Any thoughts?


With respect,

Mike92

You are reading into it too much.  They are two totally separate tests, each which their own methodology and testing focus.

 

[fraserdw]

Pushups is one aspect of both tests, in the case of JTF you must collect a point total  of all the test features and doing just pushups is not enough to score the minimum.

 

[Journeyman]

Just shows you how hardcore the MilCol ninjas are, compared to those JTF2 pussies.  :nod:

 

[Mike92]

MJP,

You are probably right, I do tend to over-analyze these things WAY too much :facepalm:.

Journeyman,

Careful, LOL.  You never know who ( :threat is watching

fraserdw,

Yeah, because the JTF2 tests also include bench press which is a test of muscular strength as opposed to muscular endurance (pushups).

 

[MikeL]

Yeah, because the JTF2 tests

It is called the Cooper's Test,  not JTF2 test.

I have an idea of what you are looking at,  and it is not the scoring sheet for the Cooper's test.  It is just a scale that gives you an idea of where you are physically.  On the Cooper's test the scoring for pushups is much higher then 55,  I believe it maxes at 78+ pushups.