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Cutting the CF/DND HQ bloat - Excess CF Sr Leadership, Public Servants and Contractors

hamiltongs said:
The problem there is that you end up running into the old "as a Deputy Director I have to go up against full Directors in other departments doing the same job" issue; also, is it reasonable that someone with a comparable level of responsibility in, say, Fisheries & Oceans, has a higher PS rank and pay than a similar position in the (much larger) DND? I think ERC's suggestion of revising the PS/military rank equivalence chart is the most sensible solution (I have a cousin in the PS with 10 years experience who's an EX1; it takes about twice as long for the CF to make a Cdr/LCol). However, since doing this involves essentially revising upwards the pay for pretty well all senior CF members, it ain't gonna happen IMHO.

Is it possible to sever Military Rank from PS Title and have CF members appointed to PS positions while they serve at NDHQ regardless of rank?  The military already makes the distinction between rank and appointment.  Bn COs by convention are LCols but the appointment can be held by lower ranks if circumstances require.  Accordingly a full NDHQ Business Card might read Major or LCol so and so, Acting Director of such and such...
 
Remember that NDHQ is a fully integrated HQ; it is, simultaneously, the HQ of a major government department, DND, and the HQ of a separate entity, the CF. There are parts of NDHQ that have relatively little to do with the CF, per se and where civil service mores and titles and everything else are most appropriate. There are (or there used to be) parts of NDHQ that have (had) little to do with the department, because they 'manage' purely military functions such as operations in progress. Much of the HQ is split - some of the work is military, some is departmental and the overlaps and (or were when I served) many and varied.

Splitting the HQ is possible and some pretty smart people think it would be a very good idea. I'm not sure the result of a split HQ, two (three?) HQs, would be more cost effective or smaller.

I believe, as an outsider, that some (all?) of the "dot coms" could be rolled back into NDHQ and that substantial savings could be made there. I also believe that defence procurement could be radically overhauled and that hundreds and hundreds, maybe thousands of positions across government could be saved - and the process could be made to react more quickly.
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Of course, as you can guess, I also believe in the tooth fairy!  :nod:
 
Spectrum said:
To the powers that be,

I'll speak for the lowly Jr NCM's for a second...at least those I know.

Change whatever you want, we won't notice and things will still appear screwed up to us! Just don't mess with our pay.  Unless you are going to make it go up  :nod: (Just kidding TB, it's fine where it is...just don't drop it!)

Thanks!

And this, for all intents and purposes, highlights the futility of this exercise.  We ought not to start at the top, and then decree what ought to be in the HQs, but instead, ought to start at the bottom, with the lowly rifleman and his lot in life, and what we (as Canadians) want him to be able to do.  He needs a uniform, he needs weapons, he need logistical support and he needs command support (among many other things).

So, keeping in that in mind, together the Canadian Army, the Royal Canadian Air Force and the Royal Canadian Navy make up the Canadian Armed Forces, and as such are instruments of force, and that force is meant deliberately to be deadly, and is to be wielded against our enemies as HM The Queen wishes, within the constraints of international law, and as advised by her ministers.

In short, it's all about the killing, and we ought to never forget that.  Ever.


(Edited for grammar)
 
Technoviking said:
In short, it's all about the killing, and we ought to never forget that.  Ever.

I recently reminded the head HR manager for all DND Public Servants in the Prairie Region that everything she does must inexorably lead to the death of the Taliban.  She was......nonplussed.
 
Slash civilian staff at Defence HQ: report
http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/08/21/slash-civilian-staff-at-defence-hq-report/

By Jeff Davis
OTTAWA • Bureaucrats tried to stymie a report by Lieutenant-General Andrew Leslie that calls for deep cuts to civilian ranks at National Defence Headquarters, interfering in his study months before the still secret document was finished.

“The team was directed to stop further work on the civilian structures in late November,” says the report, parts of which were shared with Postmedia News on Friday.

Lt.-Gen. Leslie was named chief of transformation in June 2010 after finishing his term as chief of land staff. Assisted by a team of military and civilian staff, he spent the last year preparing a report on how to make the Canadian Forces a leaner, meaner and more cost-effective organization.

But he began encountering resistance some six months before the tough report was finished.

Lt.-Gen. Leslie writes that his team had only examined the top two layers of the civilian bureaucracy — the deputy minister and assistant deputy ministers — before the order to halt was given in November. The report does not specify who gave the order to stop examining the civilian side of the department.

“At that point we had only examined the senior levels — levels 1 and 2 — and had not yet had time to drill down below the level 2 (assistant deputy ministers),” the report says.

His team reported only to Deputy Minister Robert Fonberg and Chief of Defence Staff General Walter Natynczyk. In his report, Lt.-Gen. Leslie writes that his superior said NDHQ’s civilian staff was none of his concern.

His report has been circulating within the military for more than a month. Despite repeated requests, bureaucrats and political staff have refused to release the report to the public.

One of Lt.-Gen. Leslie’s 43 recommendations was to cut 3,500 civil-service jobs from the department, as well as 3,500 regular force positions at headquarters that “serve little purpose.”

John MacLennan, the national president of the Union of National Defence Employees, said Mr. Fonberg briefed union chiefs and told them staffing cuts were coming, but did not say how many positions would be eliminated.

Mr. MacLennan said the unions have not been consulted on the upcoming staffing cuts.

Even before the report was released, Lt.-Gen. Leslie writes, internal resistance to his recommendations was already crystallizing.

“[At] a large meeting in December 2010 involving the generals, admirals and senior DND civil servants … it became apparent the tendency was to argue for the preservation of the status quo,” the report says.

“Though grimly amusing, these interactions proved that consensus has not and probably never will be achieved on any significant change.”

Of the 28,000 civilians working for the department, union president Mr. MacLennan said, many — such as technicians and cooks — are essential. He said he expects cuts to focus on the mass of about 4,000 managers and desk jockeys at NDHQ.

“The bloating of the organization is the bureaucrats,” he said.

David Bercuson, director of the Centre for Military and Strategic Studies at the University of Calgary, said cutting military bureaucracies is never easy.

“Militaries are inherently conservative bureaucracies and they don’t like change,” he said.

Mr. Bercuson said such cuts will need a strong minister, who isn’t afraid to “stand on the necks” of officials and force staffing cuts through.

He said he does not see Defence Minister Peter MacKay — who has not commented on the report — as taking the leadership required.

NDP defence critic Jack Harris called the revelations of bureaucratic growth in the report “shocking,” particularly given “massive failings” in areas such as procurement.

“It does echo some other complaints about the headquarters and the bureaucracy being bloated, and at the same time the people on the front line are being underserviced,” he said.

Mr. Harris said he has not received the report, and called on Mr. MacKay to release it “right away.”

He said it is wrong that services provided by the military — such as maritime search and rescue — are being downgraded while more and more bureaucrats are hired in Ottawa.

“That’s a bit of a shock when you see the bureaucracy itself increasing substantially when there is work that needs to be done is not being done,” he said.
 
Of note, the Globe and mail has acquired a copy of LGen Leslie's retirement letter.  According to the G&M,

“My military duty is complete,” wrote the former head of the army. He and his wife are currently on vacation in the Aegean. “On our return I have been invited to join a great Canadian corporation in the private sector,” Lt.-Gen. Leslie said in his letter.

He could not be reached for comment.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/why-report-advocating-massive-military-cuts-will-be-a-hard-sell/article2135950/


and re:  "Why don't the media release the documents they receive" - DND is not yet workign with truly electronic documents; most are, rather, scans of hard copies.  Hard copies may have been annotated or may in some way indicate the original recipient - and no news agency wants to burn the source that provided them with a copy of such a document.
 
Many folkd don't understand the "separate lives" of the CF and DND.  Minister MacKay oversees both.  General Natynczyk commands the CF.  DM Fonberg oversees DND. 

If LGen Leslie's Transformation report was a CF report, then there are two truisms: 1) it is not any of DM Fonberg's direct business; however 2) it should only include the CF and not address or make recommendations as to the civilian DND positions that do not fall directly within the CF chain-of-command.

That said, I believe you will never see Mr. Fonberg ever write a report saying he must cut thousands of civilian bureaucrats who by their very existence make him one of the top dog DMs around town.

:2c:

G2G
 
Has anyone, in recent history, at LGen Leslie's civilian counterpart level, ever written a report championing the slashing of uniformed CF personel at the same levels and equal positions as the DND civilians suggested by LGen Leslie's report? 
 
dapaterson said:
.... re:  "Why don't the media release the documents they receive" - DND is not yet workign with truly electronic documents; most are, rather, scans of hard copies.  Hard copies may have been annotated or may in some way indicate the original recipient - and no news agency wants to burn the source that provided them with a copy of such a document ....
True, but
1)  this doesn't apply to ATIP documents they receive and write stories on, and
2)  any document can be sanitized re:  where it came from.

Edited to add:  I guess now that the title has been released, someone's going to ATIP it and maybe share it.
 
recceguy said:
Has anyone, in recent history, at LGen Leslie's civilian counterpart level, ever written a report championing the slashing of uniformed CF personel at the same levels and equal positions as the DND civilians suggested by LGen Leslie's report?


I believe that Kevin Lynch, then DM of Industry, did, back in the early 1990s, about the time when Jocelyne Bourgon was Clerk of the Privy Council and when Jean Chrétien was considering how to tame the budget deficit. There was some cutting but not as deep as I think Lynch thought justifiable - Chrétien/Bourgon decided that downloading the deficit to AB, BC and ON was, politically, easier.

Additionally, during the real decades of darkness, in the 1970s and '80s, there were substantial cuts to DND's civilian workforce - which were, at least, approved by the DM. My recollection is that DMs, not CDSs, recommended the steady, painful 'draw-down' of the CF, accompanied by concomitant cuts in DND's public service population - always keeping an agreed ratio of military to civilian personnel. Thus, when the CF was reduced from 120,000 to 100, 000 and then to 80,000 regulars the DND PS was reduced proportionately and 'in step.'
 
Some, but perhaps not the majority, of the cuts to the civilian employees did indeed come about from force reductions, principally base closures. A look at a map showing commands and bases in the seventies and eighties, even into the nineties, would show lots of little stations as well as some bases that are no longer operating. Working across the country think Argentia, Shelburne, Summerside, Chatham, La Macaza, London, Gimli, Alsask, Calgary and Chilliwack for starters. Some might not have had that large a work force, while others did. Together they made a substantial number.
 
In all fairness, the pressure to reduce civilian numbers by a few thousand (3-4K, I believe) started last winter, well before LGen Leslie submitted his report. Trying to hire a civilian employee from outside the department is now extremely difficult if not next to impossible - pretty much the only permitted hires into the civilian ranks are from the Regular Force and Reservists on Cl B of 180 days or more.

That being said, does this mean the reductions of civilian staff will occur where they should?  No.  Attrition happens where it happens and if a necessary part of the civilian organisation finds itself short-staffed while a useless part is fat and happy, then that's life.  Considering that the civilian side has such things as an EX-1 Director of Diversity and Well-Being, further comment would be redundant.
 
... and the military has Colonel Director of Official Languages, a LCol Director of Human Rights and Diversity...

The management of DND/CF is marked by swings between draconian central interference in the day-to day, followed by hands-off, inmates running the asylum liberty.

The open and carefree Hillier days have ended and the institution is swinging back.


Of particular note: A significant portion of HQ growth that is suggested as excess would appear to be the Hillier "Transformation".  It is interesting that no one has gone to the rock to ask the Big Cod what he thinks - whether he agrees that HQs are now oversized and bloated.

(Edit because of my poor typing skills, now preserved forever by people quoting me)
 
dapaterson said:
... and the military has  Colonel Director of Official Landuaage, a LCol Director of Human Rights and Diversity...
See my previous post in this thread.  How on Earth do these two positions help the rifleman?
 
Technoviking said:
See my previous post in this thread.  How on Earth do these two positions help the rifleman?
I can see them broadly helping ensure rules are in place to make sure the rifleman doesn't get jerked around arbitrarily, but even then:
1)  the rest of the rules aren't enough?
2)  how many EXs/LCOLs does it take to do this?
3)  how many folks working for how many EXs/LCOLs does it take to do this?
4)  how could that staff $ be better spent?
:facepalm:

dapaterson said:
The management of DND/CF is marked by swings between draconian central interference in the day-to day, followed by hands-off, inmates running the asylum liberty.
Like the picture you paint.
 
Technoviking said:
See my previous post in this thread.  How on Earth do these two positions help the rifleman?

It helps him kill the enemy in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and in either official language....
 
Infanteer said:
It helps him kill the enemy in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and in either official language....

:rofl:
 
PPCLI Guy said:
I recently reminded the head HR manager for all DND Public Servants in the Prairie Region that everything she does must inexorably lead to the death of the Taliban.  She was......nonplussed.

And you can see similar reactions amongst "public servants" at NDHQ - both military and civilian.
 
Technoviking said:
See my previous post in this thread.  How on Earth do these two positions help the rifleman?

(1) They ensure we obey and respect the laws were are sworn to uphold.

(2) They provide tools and leverage to get us out of our self-defeating "anglo-saxon white males only" attitudes, and give use a more diverse CF, which enables mission success in diverse areas where we can leverage those experiences and language and cultural skills.

 
dapaterson said:
(1) They ensure we obey and respect the laws were are sworn to uphold.

(2) They provide tools and leverage to get us out of our self-defeating "anglo-saxon white males only" attitudes, and give use a more diverse CF, which enables mission success in diverse areas where we can leverage those experiences and language and cultural skills.
re: 1.  That's what his or her section commander is for.
re: 2.  That's what his or her section commander is for.

re: both.  That's why we have a National Defence Act, Queen's Regulations and Orders.

Now, re: 2, please show me one iota of evidence that suggests that the CF needs a diversity?  It needs a common sense of purpose, irrespective of the background, culture or ethnicity of its members.

 
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