DND 404 - Driver's Licence ( merged )

[211RadOp]

We had this come up once at our unit and our MSE Safety gave me the link to Lognet and to the drivers regs.

According to Transportation Manual 158 A-LM-158-005/AG-001 (Revised 2006-01-01) Chapter 5 Para 7b "Members of the CF do not require a civilian driver’s licence to operate DND vehicles or rentals contracted to perform DND tasks."

However, if his PDL is under suspension, then he will have to wait.

 

[TN2IC]

My understanding was the personal was ok to drive, but only on Crown land with the 404's. Without provincial that is...
But I could be wrong. I am new with the 158-5. But I think Fdtrucker is bang on with the issue.

 

[The_Falcon]

My understanding was the personal was ok to drive, but only on Crown land with the 404's. Without provincial that is...
But I could be wrong. I am new with the 158-5. But I think Fdtrucker is bang on with the issue.

The whole idea behind suspending/revoking 404's if you happen to get your PDL revoked for driving infractions is a CYA move on the part of the CF and more specifically the people in charge of MSE.  I.E. allowing a person who had there PDL yanked for unsafe driving etc. to operate MSE, while technically permissible, is just a lawsuit/CF98 waiting to happen. 

 

[gaspasser]

According to the "experts" around the shop. (I haven't called Safety, yet)
Except MSE Ops, ALL trades who require 404s for their daily employment require a PDL in order to recieve 404's.
If your husband's PDL has been suspended, he will not be able to get a 404.
Hope this helps.

 

[geo]

Rules come and rules go but, when you think about it, if you have a person who has, in his wisdom, accumulated enough demerit points to have his Provincial licence revoked or suspended, would you want him to operate any kind of vehicle on your Base / near your troops?

Many drivers have been nailed for impaired driving prior to deployment..... they're all part of the rear guard now

 

[skinnyrose]

Hubby had a partial interview today, and your right he can't get his 404's without his civie licence,,,he has another meeting tomorrow about going for another trade that doesn't require a licence at this time.

FYI  he lost his licence do to both of our stupidity.....not drinking driving, reckless driving and such...we bought a new car...while I was driving around in Car #1 getting the licence and insurance for Car #2 he was going to be late for work...so I told him to take car #2 to work,and I'd stop by and put the new licence plate and insurance papers on the car. Well he stopped at a red light a cop pulled in behind him and well got pulled over because of no valid licence plate on the car...needless today he lost his licence for driving without a licence and insurance on the car.....did I mention it was a 5 min drive to work :S
Stupidity...and heres where it got us....
But it appears hes going to get the trade he originally wanted.....so it turns out in our favor after all...

Thanks everyone for your information it is greatly appreciated.

 

[punkd]

No SigOp QL3's for him. If he doesn't have his 404's he won't be going on course. They will probably force him to remuster.

 

[TN2IC]

I think you missed the last post there punkd...

 

[orange.paint]

I know at 17 years old when I join the armoured corp I had no licence.I had NEVER driven a car.The first "car" I ever drove was a LSVW (how sad is that!)second vehicle being a Leopard.We all wrote our Ontario drivers test unless you had a valid ONTARIO drivers licence.Where the grey area occurs is when someone had a licence and lost it.This proves they are reckless etc and poses a risk to DND.I once had a guy in my troop lose his licence for wreckless driving.They were going to send him off to the canteen because he was "not employable as his PCF" without his licence.However as stated earlier:

"military drivers do not require a provincial drivers licence to operate DND owned or leased vehicles on public roads in Canada,providing they hold this permit and it is valid."

Signed by the transport officer on my 404's.

It turns out this member was allowed to drive anything on his 404's and has since deployed as such.

Drinking and driving is a whole differnt can of worms.
It seems quite clear to me,but apparently there is something were not seeing....maybe some MSE safety regulation for base? ???

 

[Lost_Warrior]

I did my DP1 Armoured Recce course in August 2004.  Most of the course didn't have a civie licence, but we were all issued 404's after completing the course.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

From the back of my 404s issued by CFB Halifax recently.

"Military drivers do not require a provincial driver's licence to operate DND owned or leased vehicles on public roads in Canada, providing they hold this permit and it is valid."

There.  In black and white.  If Base Tn is wrong, let me know so I can go jack someone up tomorrow.   ;D

Obviously there is lots of "I think" and "I heard" on this 404 stuff.

SupersonicMax,

I think you better go read your own reference again, sorry to tell you...you are talking apples and oranges.  Nice grouping.  Wrong target. 

As for the "type", well.  I have had 404s since I was a Trooper and I have never heard of classes.  I have heard of types.  Current, and expired.  Can someone tell me if there really is more than one "type" of 404s?

Or are you trying to refer to the Specialty and Class and Level portion of the 404.  Only thing I can imagine is that the tire-kickers get a different one than us "users" do??

 

[orange.paint]

Mudman
Look at your 404's 3rd row first box.It says type.I have type 2.Don't have a clue what thats for,but im sure I use to have a type 1.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Crikies.

Mine...mine doesn't have that.  I am serious.

Unit, Ser #, Rank, Name, Permit #, Specialty, Restrictions, Date Issued, Expiry Date, Class and Level.

Thats it on the front.

Issued by Formation Transportation Safety 16 April 2006. 

On the back is says on the bottom left DND 404 (02-00) 7530-21-920-5043.

Must be dif'rint ones with other NSNs?

"one standard"

Didn't we (read NATO) have trouble with that concept for..ammo...towing pintles...and all kinds of stuff?

Add 404s to the list  :rofl:

 

[geo]

MRM & 099*...
Class & level are where your vehicles are listed..............
eg, mine say: A1 A3 B2 C52 C53 C60
(Exactly what it means - no longer have a clue though I was once qualified MSEOp (amongst other things).  Working out of an area HQ, I don't need much anymore... it's all on my 416s anyway.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Geo,

roger that, that was my little point.  I have never heard of types (other than "expired" lol) and only ever followed my quals...agreed on the "i don't know what is what anymore".

I just know I am qualified to drive stuff.  Just not sure what the stuff is anymore.  used to be AVGP and down...

I think after 5 years at the HQ, I might still be able to handle a go-kart....or a wheelbarrow  ^-^

 

[2929]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if there is a document that explains what the Class & Level codes mean? I vaguely remember getting a sheet w/ my 404's that listed some of the Class & Level codes, but that is long gone.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

I am sure there is.  Drop by your local MSE Saftey/Tn section...good start. 

I remember when my SSM, and old RCD type, wrote "MLVW w/traylower" on my 404s years ago...in pencil. 

Its not quite like that anymore.  ;D

 

[2929]

:rofl: 
A traylower eh?

That reminds me of my Temp Military ID, looks like a 5 year old pasted it together in art class! ;D

 

[Sig_Des]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if there is a document that explains what the Class & Level codes mean? I vaguely remember getting a sheet w/ my 404's that listed some of the Class & Level codes, but that is long gone.

There is...there's some fun quals on it as well....I like floor sweeper

 

[17thRecceSgt]

:rofl: 
A traylower eh?

That reminds me of my Temp Military ID, looks like a 5 year old pasted it together in art class! ;D

This guy was a great soldier, SSM ...but he mispelled "PEIR" one time...PIER...and then said to one of my buddies "well how the hell do you spell P-E-I-R then!"