DND/VA HELP PLEASE!

[Centurian1985]

Another pet peeve of mine.  When I retired, the lady at VA asked if I had any ideas about improving their system.  Poor woman! Half an hour later she weakly smiled as she said she would pass on my ideas to a higher level. 

So heres my problem; there is nowhere on the internet a soldier can learn about successful cases at the VA that they can use to help with their own cases.  I had to go all the way to Charlottetown to win my case for a blown out knee, but won it based on my own research and analysis and application of labour relations law.  Neither of the lawyers who represented me referd to any other cases in their transcripts.  What I complained about to the VA staff was that there was nowhere for soldiers to go to get advice about their cases except to VA lawyers, whom I now have a pretty poor opinion of as neither of the two I worked with knew how to write a credible legal presentation.

So heres what I need to know: Are all VA lawyers like that? who is out there as a non-profit group offering to represent our guys in writing their cases when the lawyers we get given prove to be less than expected?  Sure, I can tell people how I won my case (and have), but who do we go to if we have a case that needs a different approach? We should have access to other peoples VA cases in the same way that lawyers have access to other cases.

Am I out in left field on this one?

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Centurion,

I know what you are talking about here...to some degree.  My "short story" is I screwed my back on basic para in 92.  I lived with the "injury" until 2003 until things started going alittle south.  After asking for an X ray repeatedly at Stad hospital, I got one.  I was sent for an MRI within a week (pucker factor?).  So...they determined...11+ years later that I had herniated discs in my L4-L5 and L5-S1 lumbar spine..degenerative disc's and spinal stenosis.  END STATE?  I have a 5% claim as they see it.  Goodei gum drops. thanks for that.

I am now faced with, after all that, a limited ability to do anything with VAC until they make their "decision".  When they do, I have to go against, if I chose to, the VAC lawyers about how "hurt" I am.  Nowhere is there anyone advocating for me...except me.  And the paperwork from my Pers File that my former C Clk copied for me a few years ago....thank him for that.  Despite CF98s from CABC, X rays and MRI that all point to "jumpin from Herc's" as to where my "disability" comes from, I am daunted with the fact of facing VAC/DVA with no help from the CF, and no one "on my side" in VAC either.  I have no info on "like cases" to measure my own file against. 

Who is there...in the entire VAC org to fight for the ex-service member, or current serving member?  My opinion is "no one". 

It's sad.  You do what you think the Service needs/required you to.  Then...you find out after...that you are up that creek ( the stinky one ) without a paddle, and no one is there to offer one. 

Who should be heading up VAC/DVA?  Someone who has served and seen...that my opinion.  Not someone who thinks "serving" is someting the waitor does for them on Friday at their fav pub.

I feel like I am a convicted car thief, trying to get car insurance.  Like I did something wrong...

I have paperwork too.  Real Vet's are going thru crap 1000% worse than I am.  Funny...all the civie staffers in VAC make as much or more than I have...but never had to put their meat on the line.  Ironic.  In a very maddening way.

Time to go punch out my "weeble wooble" again...

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Oh one point I forgot in my "rage"...

You said something about the VA lawyers that represented  you?  Isn't it sort of ( by sort of I mean VERY MUCH SO ) a conflict for a VA lawyer for you, and other Vet's/claimants, to have a VA lawyer working on their best interest for a claim AGAINST VAC????

I would liken it to having my SSM laying a charge against me....and then having my Assisting Offcr being the one that who "recommended" the charges to the SSM and provided a statement to that effect to the CoC.

Should be a seperate and independant lawyer that, as much as you can have, has YOUR/the claimants best interests in mind.

Seems to be a carry-over of the Liberal government way of doing business.

I only fell out of a plane with a good canopy.  People are out there with real injuries.  Some of them for a LONG time.  Wartime service.

VAC is, in my mind, turning their back on our real Vet's.  And this VA lawyers advocating for claimants is "Not On".

sigh...back to the "weeble wooble" now for some Anger Management.

:rage:

 

[Kat Stevens]

Short answer: Nobody at VAC is on your side. You are under no obligation to use VAC lawyers to fight your case.  Your first move is to contact your local Royal Canadian Legion branch, and get the contact info for your area Veterans Advocate, it is their job to battle VAC on your behalf, and most of them are very zealous. I believe that ANAVETS offers the same service, but I was wrong once before.  You do have the right to retain civilian council to represent you, but make sure he's up to speed on VAC disability claim procedure.  I went through the Legion when it was decided I was of no further use, and it was a (relatively) painless experience.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Kat

Very sincerely, thanks for the indication of where my "center of arc" should be.  As I said...I feel I am up Stinky creek with no paddle.  I will pursue those avenues you pointed to.

But...isn't the REAL issue the other one you said?  That NO ONE at VAC is concerned with "vet's" best interest?  Wasn't that why that Dept was created??????????????????????????

VAC...Veterans Affairs Canada.  Hmm, lets ponder a re-name of that Department.  Maybe that should be a new thread.  I will put a paycheck on the best name that reflects their current function.  Such as....FOOVC.  (**** Over Our Vets).

sigh.  what a slap in the face to Vet's (and I am REALLY not one, I hit the DZ in Canada in peacetime...under a canopy.  Bad jab though  :-\).

My father was a FE (Flight Engineer for non-zoomies) on the ol Argus (VP 415...Swordfish).  After ++ years of flying ASW/SAR during the Cold War with 4 x 18 cylinder piston engines beside him for 24+ hours at a time, he was "legally deaf" type thing.  Understandable.  Right?  The man had 10,000+ hours in the air when he retired in '80...

DVA "graciously" re-assesed his claim, and re-assessed his "benefits"...57 cents a month.

SLAP! 

 

[muffin]

One of the most frusterating things for my Dad, a DVA pensioner, is having to "re-prove" his injury each year through mountains of assessments, paperwork and memories. A close friend of his gave up a long time ago for this same reason and told them to take thier pension  and shove it (so to speak ) Can't say I blame him really.

He is injured. All of his doctors say he will NEVER work again.... and still each year another envelope of forms arrives for him to re-plead his case. Not only this but he has passed CRA now - and couldn't go back even if he wanted to!

.....and of course he just received the information from SISIP saying they are changing their plan again with more reductions at 60 or 65 ....

...just not right.

muffin

 

[Centurian1985]

Would it be helpful if we posted a list of the things any injured membered should do to build their case? Would that be supported by the site-owners?
(Getting a CF 98 is not enough these days)

 

[the 48th regulator]

We actually have a site dedicated for this.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/board,76.0.html

I can work on something this evening for you regarding the process from time of injury, right on up to the multiple appeals, as I have done all of them.

A few things I find intriguing on the posts, as I too have hit many a road block, so I will help.

More to follow...

dileas

tess

 

[Kat Stevens]

At the time of VACs creation, it had the mandate to ensure adequate (by 1940s standards) care for injured veterans.  I believe that, over the years of Governmental apathy toward the Forces, VAC became like any other bureaucratic empire, more concerned with hanging on to "their" money than what was fair. To be semi fair to VAC, there have been many, many fraudulent claims for them to sort through, and this is more than likely the cause for their reluctance to pony up the dough.  You need to access your medical docs through Freedom of Information, with all entries relevant to your claim highlighted prominently.  The CF 98 by itself is no longer enough, have all documentation that supports your claim, including specialists assessments, etc.  GET EVERYTHING YOU CAN RELATED TO YOUR INJURY, no matter how trivial it may seem to you.  If you are still serving, report any aggravation to your condition. Suffering in silence, while a wonderful trait for some things, will shag up your future life something fierce.  To sum up (finally, I hear you say!)  paperwork can be your friend, in this case.

Good luck, Kat

 

[Centurian1985]

Actually the main problem is that the people appointed to make the decision have no military background and do not believe most of the cases presented.  One friend of mine had his knee blown out by a guerilla fighter at a Lebanon checkpoint.  Despite all the paperwork and documentation they still didnt believe that such a thing could happen.

Also, they think we can just got  to the doctor whenever we want, not realizing that sometimes we work in areas of the world where there are no doctors around (at least not always competent ones) or that we are on an operation and cant go to the doctor until the mission is over. 

They also have no legal training and do not undertsand that we are innocent until proven guilty; in other words, I do not have to prove that I am not a liar, they have to prove I am a liar (which is easy beacuse I'm not lying about the injury; apparently some people do lie about their injuries, but I dont know of any personally and I digress...).

Also, a lack of physical evidence idoes not mean that something did not occur. it only means that there was no system or person present to record the incident (if a soldier falls in a forest and no one else is around, does that mean he didnt get hurt?).

You do not have to have EXACT evidence, you must have PREPONDERANCE of evidence! In other words if I say my knee was injured and the doctor says my knee was injured, and my paperwork shows I was not injured when i joined, but does show i am injured now, then ipso facto, there is a high level of probabiltiy that I was injured during military service, and build from there.

Speculation by board members is also illegal, they cannot say 'oh you must have hurt yourself some other time', they must have some sort of evidence of when that other time was   Board members cannot make allegations of falsehood without some sort of supportng evidence, it is the same as commiting libel or slander.  And if they do, you are enttiled to confront your accusers and refute their claims.

Finally, there is wide confusion on the level of proof is required.  This is not a criminal case, you do not need to prove 'beyond a reasonable doubt'; this is a civil case, 'you only need to prove 'beyond a reasonable probability'; the difference is that in criminal cases you need to prove 95% certainty, while in civil court you only need to prove over 50% certainty - makes big difference in how much evidence is needed!

 

[the 48th regulator]

The proof they look for is medical documentation.

This is how they base their judgements, if this does not exist, then the onus is up to the member to have medical proof.

i.e, your friend must find a way to show that his persistant pain and suffering occured due to it being blown out at a check point in Lebanon.  Is this documented medically on his military file?  If not is there any documentations at all that the incident  happened.  If so, this can be the evidence that you can take to your own family doctor.  He/She will make an assessment of the the P & S based on that original injury.  This is the documented proof you present to a tribunal, which you would be able to have anyone and everyone you choose present, VAC legal counsel, Legion Rep, Doctor, family members.

Please note, the appeals board review is NOT made of member of of VAC.  It is an outside body, made of 2-4 members that adjudicate your appeal.

This is where I agree with Kat, get as much information as possible!!  Even then, it may not always work as I recently learned at a appeals board review.

dileas

tess

 

[Centurian1985]

To clarify, they didnt believe it had happened, but he had enough evidence to finally win his case.  His current dilemna is that he has associated back pain as a result of the primary injury, which he is finding it much harder to prove.  His last case went to Charlotteville last summer. 

 

[the 48th regulator]

He needs to see a doctor, that will assess him and document that his back pain is associated with the injury.

dileas

tess

 

[simysmom99]

Well, I hope that change is coming.
My dh, Mcpl. Paul Franklin and I are currently in the middle of this with the VA.  You would think that his case would be pretty cut and dry.  The man blew up in Afghanistan, he has no legs, 100% disability.  Right?  Perhaps not.  They need all the medical records, they need to do a home visit to see what we need to change.  Well, we changed houses for 1 and I have already ordered the chair lift, and I have a lovely metal portable ramp out the back door for access.  I figure with these things it is easier to beg forgiveness rather than ask for permission.  The upside to this is that I am not out any money (yet) as everyone is trying to figure out who will pay for what, being as he's still a serving member, so technically he is not a veteran... and other points too numerous to state.  I have been assured time and again that we will borne no cost for what he needs.  He has new legs, new wheelchair, all that jazz.
Another upside.  There are lots of people listening, and I tend to be a loud and outspoken person.  I have been told that what we are going through right now is new to everyone and that through this experience, change can and will happen.
We shall see.
Good luck to all those who are in the system right now.

 

[muffin]

I have been told that what we are going through right now is new to everyone and that through this experience, change can and will happen.

I hope so too....

Glad to hear everything is progressing as quickly as it can in it's current state though 

muffin

 

[the 48th regulator]

The upside to this is that I am not out any money (yet) as everyone is trying to figure out who will pay for what, being as he's still a serving member, so technically he is not a veteran

simysmom99,

Contact your local legion, and Veteran affairs Representative, regardless whether he is serving or not, he is entitleted to help, services, and payment.

Here are some places to start;

Veterans Affairs Disability Pension Program

Guide to R.C.L service officers

VAC contacts  where you need to locate your local Pension officer and Councilor.

Do this immediately, if no one has approached you yet, it sounds like you have, so I would make sure that the legion is involved.  And read read read, you are entitled to many things, of which the VAC will never let you know that you are deserving of!

dileas

tess

 

[manhole]

Your best bet is to contact the service officer of your local veterans organization, i.e. ANAVETS or Royal Canadian Legion.  I am service officer for our local ANAVETS unit and have quite a few files I am currently working on.  You have to do a lot of your own work on your case and every case is considered individually by VAC.  There are many good people working at VAC but there are some plugs as well.  The Act and regulations thereto require updating and change.    There are some good points to the new Veterans Charter.  During the last election campaign, the Conservatives promised a Veterans Bill of Rights plus an ombudsman.    I would suggest anyone who is not a member of a veterans organization, join and become involved.  If you are still in the military, make sure you keep a record of any injuries, no matter how minor, for future reference.  And if you are really smart, you will report any injuries so that a paper trail can be created.  This is a sad commentary on how our veterans are supported however this is the reality.

 

[beenthere]

I had mixed success after retiring in 96--Med. Release. For some reason unknown to me I wasn't aware that I was eligible for SISIP benefits until about a year after my release. I applied and was advised that I should have applied within 180 days of my release so they would not consider my application-period. I supplied them with very good reasoning for my non awareness of the 180 day factor. They would not accept the very pertinent reason that a lawyer friend (who never participated in any way in my contacts with them) stated was a good reason.I called the Pres. of SISIP who acted like a dink and had no time for me. I told him to bugger off and left the SISIP case to die it's own death. I have not contacted them since 99.
I pursued the DVA route which had also turned down my first application. I requested a complete copy of all of my medical records and within a couple of months 15lbs of paper arrived in the mail. Everything was there. I went through all of it and divided it into piles. Piles that didn't matter like contracts for glasses. Piles that may matter and piles that really did matter---my attendance at the MIR--referrals to specialists and their reports, things that had been noted by military Dr's. but not attended to and so on. I then pieced the really pertinent papers together to make a paper history of my problem and how it had been addressed or looked over/overlooked. I then wrote a narrative that was short but factual to guide anyone who reads through the story presented in the paperwork from my file. Just kind of stitched the pieces together.
I then sent off a copy of it all to the DVA lawyer that I had contacted . Shortly thereafter the DVA lawyer contacted me and stated that I had a good case and that they were going to add their lawyers worth to it and submit it. They did and it was submitted. A few months later I was advised that my disability was assessed at X% and I received a cheque for $X to cover three years of the time since I first made application.(3 Years is max.) and advised me that I would receive $X per month tax free as long as I live. I can also make appeal if I feel that I am more disabled than the X% that they had given me.
I must say that the lawyer was very helpful and was entirely with me all the way. I don't know what Legion reps are like but I have heard good things about them. My advice is get copies of your med docs and accident/ injury reports and anything else that may help your case so that you have a paper trail to follow. Stick with it . Pay NO attention to the first denial and fight them like a lawyer. All facts facts facts and be persistent.

 

[Centurian1985]

Congrats! Sounds like you had a good lawyer, I was not impressed with the ones I had.

 

[3rd Horseman]

I have found that the VAC lawyers are rather good and caring folk. First denial is standard my view is that the committee has to get paid so they must deny a little so they get to sit again on the next board. Reason is they only get paid when they sit. I suggested to VAC that they appoint people for the position and pay them a flat rate not reflective of the time they sit. Who knows if that will work but it would be a start.