• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Do Canadians even care anymore?

Well apparently there is a BFT work up program that exists. Beginning with webbing marches and graduating to a light ruck march and finally "building up" to the required weight and distance.

This sounds like news to you, and if you're 031 then it probably is. My first experience with the "build up" was with an armoured unit.
 
I think this "buildup" is reflective of the low outlook on physical fitness that the Army holds.   Asking someone to walk for a couple hours with their sleeping bag in their ruck is not too much.

Personally, I think all soldiers should have to do some sort of long-distance, tactical   March-and-Shoot (and pass) every three months.
 
Personally, I think all soldiers should have to do some sort of long-distance, tactical  March-and-Shoot (and pass) every three months.

I agree, but then we would spend all of our time re-testing the failures. We're gutless when it comes to firing the weak. Verbal... C&P... discharge. Isn't that the way it supposed to work?
 
I agree that the process for release of pers that are unfit, unsuitable, or unable to perform the full range of their duties is not used much (at least from what I have seen).
I think the problem lies in that fact that the unit trying to process the release will be the one that suffers more.  Most likely the person being processed will be placed in a non-field ATR position (barrack warden or something similiar) and the losing unit will not get a replacement until the APS after the release happens, and only then if they are lucky.  The remaining pers in that unit now have to do their own job as well as that of person being processed for release.  Meanwhile, they could have kept that member, employed them as they are able and gotten some work out of them.  Push to get them posted and get a replacement.  Might not be nice but real life sucks.
Until the training system is able to provide enough troops to bring every MOC up to full strength (or close to it), the system is going to work against those units that want to winnow out the chaff.
 
Apparently this thread is going off on a slight tangent from "Do Canadians even care anymore?"

re: BFT - the work-up training is conditioning - very few people normally exercise while wearing 55 pounds of additional weight, including a insulated helmet on the head (oh, except for hockey goalies, of course ...).  Therefore, the work-up training is sensible as opposed to suddenly changing from P.T. in t-shirt and shorts to going for a 13km walk wearing the olive drab equivalent of goalie gear.
 
Returning to the topic of "Do Canadians even care anymore?" ...
This Edmonton Sun editorial is interesting (and is posted here since it won't be available after today via URL/link):


The vanishing phase
They are public servants in the truest sense of the word, but they aren't out walking any picket lines. They endure often horrendous working conditions for which even their recently raised wages still don't seem fair compensation.

Yet they never talk of going on strike.

They are our Armed Forces, and, as the Sun's Stephanie Rubec has painstakingly (and painfully) documented, they are a proud but vanishing breed thanks to years of government underfunding and neglect.

Almost every piece of kit in our Forces is 20-30 years old, with the odd exception, such as state-of-the-art Coyote vehicles used in Afghanistan.

But overall, as our military's rusting, decaying equipment goes, so goes our Forces.

As defence analyst Howie Marsh of the Conference of Defence Associations told Rubec: "From 2008-13 you're likely to see the disappearance of the air force and half the navy and half the army.... We're into the vanishing phase."

Sobering words, given that the rest of the world is engaged in the war on terrorism - a war to which Prime Minister Paul Martin has said we are committed.

How we're going to meet those commitments with a vanishing military is an open, urgent question.

And Martin's vague promises to build a new peacekeeping brigade are no answer.

There may be, however, a glimmer of hope in the sad litany of military breakdowns and bad decisions Rubec detailed, which makes it clear this problem goes deeper - no pun intended - than our faulty submarine fleet.

Last week's fatal fire on the problem-plagued HMCS Chicoutimi has riveted public attention on the problem and forced the government to conduct an inquiry. Lieut. Chris Saunders, 32, a father of two, was given a full military funeral in Halifax this week.

If there is any decency in our now-humbled Liberal minority government, the inquiry - and the public outrage - won't stop at subs, but will extend to how we support and equip all our troops.

The sub fire may have been a rare occurrence, but it must be viewed as part of a grim pattern for our troops. People are taking notice. The sub fiasco was a tipping point - a signal that Ottawa's neglect has gone too far.

The navy has announced it is docking all the problem-plagued subs pending the fire investigation.

But without a full review of our military and a solid commitment to rebuilding it, this temporary move could signal our Forces' future - stalled and headed for oblivion. Unfortunately, given the report that the government is going to cut the Defence budget next year, it would seem that Canada has chosen oblivion.
 
Personally, I think all soldiers should have to do some sort of long-distance, tactical  March-and-Shoot (and pass) every three months.

Like along the Rideau Canal?
 
I agree that the BFT is a lowest common denominator test. I've seen plenty of big fat guys (and girls) go out, pass the test by the skin of their teeth, take a couple of days off sick, go on light duties and rest up for the next year's test. Its a load of crap. I just did my first Expres test this year (after doing BFTs for the last 8 or so) and I have to say, it is the superior test. That would really weed people out. Especially if they did 2 BFT AND an Expres test every year.

Speaking of workup training, at my old unit we were supposed to do 6 weeks of workups prior to doing the BFT. Too many people had complained that it was too hard to just do it. I always thought that the unit should be bugged out with no warning, other than saying "in the next month we will do the BFT."  When I left the unit was starting to follow the army fitness guide and the programs in it, but I don't know if it stuck? Has anyone been following that guide?
 
Returning to the theme/title of this thread, I just ran across a news item suggesting that SOME Canadians, do indeed care (and, they've got a catchy slogan ...):

... National Citizens Coalition is launching a newspaper and radio campaign urging Canadians to rally behind their military with the war cry, "Our military forces have always fought for us, now it's time we fought for them."
 
bossi said:
Returning to the theme/title of this thread, I just ran across a news item suggesting that SOME Canadians, do indeed care (and, they've got a catchy slogan ...):

Good for them. I hope it achieves some results. (you never know--we might be surprised...) Cheers.
 
Any positive pressure is good.  We all just have to keep pushing and looking for signs of improvement.

Cheers.
 
I just ran across a news item suggesting that SOME Canadians, do indeed care (and, they've got a catchy slogan ...):

Bossi... Do you recall where you came across that?
 
Yes and no ... It was in a news item about the subs, but right now I can't remember which one
(... there've been so many ...)

So, I just Googled and then visited the NCC website for the first time in my life, and here's what I found:

The National Citizens Coalition believes Canada needs a strong military defence.

And to get that message out, the NCC has run newspaper ads, radio commercials and set up special online petitions.

Why are we doing this?

Because if Canada is going to protect our sovereignty, if we are going to be a reliable ally, if we are going to be a meaningful force in the war on terror, than we need to rebuild a military that has been starved for nearly thirty years.

It's simply wrong to ask the brave men and women who serve in the military to risk their lives with outdated equipment and with inadequate supplies.

If our politicians can find enough money to finance scandalous sponsorship programs and billion dollar gun registries certainly they can find enough money to rebuild our once proud military.

http://www.morefreedom.org/NCCLive/campaigns/campaignsArticle.jsp?ArticleID=166

Their advertisements have the snazzy slogan:
"Our military forces have always fought for us, not it's time we fought for them"
http://www.morefreedom.org/NCCLive/pdfs/NCCMilitaryAd_REV.pdf
 
bossi said:
Yes and no ... It was in a news item about the subs, but right now I can't remember which one
(... there've been so many ...)

So, I just Googled and then visited the NCC website for the first time in my life, and here's what I found:



http://www.morefreedom.org/NCCLive/campaigns/campaignsArticle.jsp?ArticleID=166

Their advertisements have the snazzy slogan:

http://www.morefreedom.org/NCCLive/pdfs/NCCMilitaryAd_REV.pdf

P.S. (and here's the text of their petition)

Petition to support the Military
To Prime Minister Martin:

For thirty years federal governments have starved Canada's armed forces.

Currently Canada's defence spending per capita now ranks 13th out of 18 nations in NATO. We rank 153rd in defence spending out of 192 countries based on percentage of Gross Domestic Product.

We have the 34th largest population in the world, yet we have the 56th largest military force and the 77th largest military reserve.

As an ally we are not pulling our weight, as a country we are not properly equipping our troops.

The brave men and women who defend our country and our freedoms deserve better. We should not be sending them into danger with outdated, obsolete equipment.

If you can afford to spend a billion dollars on a gun registry; then surely you can afford to spend more on our military.

The time has come for this government to rebuild our armed forces. It's time you gave the armed forces the financial support it deserves.
 
Here's a little story to add to the rants:

This thurdsay night just passed The Fables (a newfie band for those who don't know) where playing at the big horn in Cambridge. now I had to go over after parade...while outside for a smoke a women seen my tags around my neck and asked if i was in the military and to that I said yes. She went on to say she was an american and then quoted that Canadian troops are pussies. This upset me but as the rational guy I am I asked her to explain figuring she would bring up the fact that we didn't go into Iraq...She continued on that 'Canadians aren't as hard core as american troops. Canadian's aren't pushed to the limits, physically maybe they are, but not mentally.'  In a nut shell she tried to say we are undisciplined and undertrained. I tried to explain to her that Canadians look at world issues differently...were american troops are peacemaker's (ie lets go in, guns blazing, and take over.), Canadian's are peacekeepers. We go in and say 'ok what can we do to make things better and try not to have chaos and massive fighting on our hands. Lets help the people instead of controlling them. She once again said...'that's why americans are better...we make our own solution.' And I asked 'is that morally right though? If it was your country, you would much prefer someone to step in between the fighting to stop it, than you would a third faction playing both sides and killing everone to stop the fighting. I know I would. What about you.'....to that didn't reply.

Now is it just me or do most people think that way about the military?....more than one person has said to me that because of the Iraq war and the hurt to Canadian trades with the US, they would rather see our troops over in Iraq fighting and dying so that they could have kept their jobs or that we wouldn't be on america's 'bad side.' And these are Canadians! Like WTF?! I thought our job was to protect people's lives and to make a difference in the world not to keep people employed or to apease the americans. Those are the jobs of foriegn affairs and human resources, not MND.

When will people ever open their eyes and see that the world isn't black and white... that there is more to everything than meets the eye?

He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. When you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche
 
Hopefully you didn't waste too much time, breath or energy debating with this person.

"Still waters run deep."
 
Well lets see if we were such pussies who stood as part of many of the US {who will be referred to as YOU'ALLS} military actions . I seem to recall standing on the plains in southern Afghanistan , looking at the place where 4 of my friends were killed by a youall pilot who still to this day believes he did nothing wrong. Another friend of mine watched as some of his friends were killed by   a person who believed that he will now be looked after in paradise as he has killed unbelievers . If it wasn't for the youalls overinflated egos maybe some of this wouldn't have happened . Now that they are caught in this mess of the WMD fiasco and have over 1000 of their soldiers killed and numerous members of the coalition forces killed they are trying to get whoever they can to try to save their A++'s and cut down their loses . IMHO the soldiers shouldn't be the ones to shoulder the burden they are forced to over there . its not the soldier that i have problems with its the elephant that controls it and the mentality of it . We are our own country and should not be burdened by the Youalls stupidity   to be pushed into the corner that they are . they invaded on the premise of the WMD , and now they still havent found anything and are still in the country trying to stabilize the beast they have now created..   but hey thats my opinion and every has one and i agree   in hopes that you walked away from her with maybe a small comment if shes so brave why aint she in uniform ?
 
Inflammatory rhetoric aside, I was thinking of Axeman's signature when I made my previous post ...

Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
 
Excellent points, all. The funny thing is that most people I've met in the US military who have had any real contact with Canadian military are full of praise for us. The woman was obviously an ill-informed, narrow minded idiot who has no real frame of reference. If she knew anything about either military she would not have made the comments she did. Cheers.
 
Sorry that i was a rant Ive kinda given up on that. but every now and then I still do it . but yes  i agree narrow minded and shallow would be a few words that i would use to describe her.  my apologies for my butt hanging out like that . :-[
 
Back
Top