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FWSAR (CC130H, Buffalo, C27J, V22): Status & Possibilities

  • Thread starter Thread starter aesop081
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What a load of s**t, besides the c-130's flying... to Afgn. the airforce don't do s**t

These six guys might disagree...

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070530/nl_vessel_070530/20070530?hub=Canada

Six crew members from a fishing boat that caught fire off the coast of Newfoundland were rescued from the icy North Atlantic ocean and taken to hospital Wednesday afternoon.

A coast guard spokesperson said the six men on board issued a garbled mayday at about 12:30 p.m. Atlantic time, and a fixed-wing Hercules aircraft from Greenwood, N.S. and a Cormorant helicopter out of Gander were dispatched to the scene immediately.

The Cormorant, first to arrive on the scene, discovered the men in the water. They were forced to evacuate the 18-metre Nautical Legacy after it had caught fire.

"We were on scene overhead the boat within an hour of receiving the call and found six personnel in the water, at which point we hoisted them out of the water and proceeded back to St. John's. Successful results all around," Capt. Chris Herten of the Search and Rescue Squadron, in charge of the cormorant helicopter that plucked the men from the water, told NTV News.

Five of the six men were able to don survival suits before entering the water. Rescue crews surrounded the young man who wasn't wearing an immersion suit, and got him out first.

"Two of the men were hypothermic," search and rescue technician Sgt. Dave Payne told NTV News. "They were very cold, but we got there in time." All six men are expected to make a full recovery.

It's believed the men are from the Clarke's Beach area. NTV News reports the Nautical Legacy had burnt to the water line and is expected to sink shortly. There is no word at this time as to the cause of the fire.
 
bilton090 said:
    What a load of s**t, besides the c-130's flying from the U.A.E to Afgn. the airforce don't do s**t, choppers that can't fly outside of canada ( junk ), f-18's that are to old ( to many hours ), ship choppers ( to old ), S.A.R plane's to old.  ???

::)  Thanks for coming out - come back when you have a "clue".
 
It was terrible, his comments made me say something nice about SAR.  I think I need a shower, I feel dirty.
 
kj_gully said:
maybe someday, Zoomie could be a joystick pilot!

As long as I get to keep my flying pay!  At least it would be in air conditioned comfort.  Yesterday was a scorcher - 5 hours cooking my head up front.
 
For the information of the ignorant:  (That's me,)

1.  How important is pressurisation in a FWSAR aircraft?  I understand it might be more comfortable when repositioning over the BC hills but  is that a significant proportion of flight time?  How inconvenient is Oxygen? Is building a pressurised  aircraft  with a big rear ramp not more expensive than it is worth for this application?

2.  I apologise for asking,  I have tried surfing and not found the answer.  Can anyone tell me how the performance of, say, the Spartan compares to the Buffalo,  and operational cost,  very roughly?

3.  If I read between the lines right a good spec for the next FWSAR is 50 knots over the buffalo for dash, extra range and available time in the air per mission,  still the same slow speed characteristics and STOL.  How about size?  Has the SAR equipment  etc  grown too or can the Buffalo handle it fine?

4.  Again, reading between the lines,  there is no  civilian market that ends up with an airplane that fulfils this spec or even close, so anyone who designs and builds a plane to suit is only looking at military markets for their production run.  Are there any other military uses for which such an aircraft would be suitable?  Given the answer to that, what is the possible market world wide for such a plane.  Surely there must be any number of countries that have a similar need.

5.  Given the discussion above on suiting operations to the aircraft, is there an obvious change or improvement we could make in our style of operations that would change the ideal spec, and how?  Is there a situation that arises today that we can not handle and what would we need to handle it?

I would be at Comox Saturday  but I have a graduation ceremony to attend.    Infuriating,  I'll be over there 11 Saturday night! 
 
Well, I have a question to add to the that i would like answered.  What are other countries using to do SAR in their mountain regions?  We are using the Buffalo.  What are the Americans using?  the European countries around the Alps?
If we need an aircraft to fly slowly through the valleys then they must have the same requirement.
 
Mountains are only part of the equation.  European countries don’t have to worry about the distances we find in BC alone.
 
... also, landlocked countries don't have to worry about flying over so much water.
 
European countries rely upon Helo assets for a majority of their SAR response.  Geography permits this...

The Russians rely on a mixed bag of RW and FW assets - their fledgling federal aviation agency is still working out the details...

We could eliminate the need of FWSAR - we would just have to increase the SAR budget by about 500% and place RW assets at every major aerodrome across the country - or just keep using FWSAR. :)
 
I wish I could wave the magic wand and order the right aircraft right now.  The questions were asked not as criticism or 'may be we don't need'  (I believe we do, more and better,)  but to try and understand what a good spec. would be and ,  when we do make achoice,  why it might be good or bad.

Something I learned from this site:  In a typical forces scenario we order enough planes but after a while,maybe when we are talking about replacement, we don't replace those lost by attrition,  then we end up with a fleet that is 'tight' for purpose and can get stressed over capability.  Had not occurred to me before.
 
Looks like the Spartan wins won . . .

C-27J tapped for Joint Cargo Aircraft

By Gayle S. Putrich - Staff writer
Posted : Wednesday Jun 13, 2007 19:37:43 EDT

The Pentagon gave the go-ahead late Wednesday for the Army and Air Force to award the $2 billion Joint Cargo Aircraft contract to the C-27J Spartan team of L-3 Communications Holdings, Boeing and Alenia North America, a unit of Italy’s Finmeccanica.

The Italian airframe beat out the smaller C-295, offered by Raytheon and EADS. Lockheed Martin pulled the already-in-service C-130J out of the competition last year.

The services received approval to buy 78 planes over the next six years, with 54 going to the Army and 24 to the Air Force





RTR at

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2007/06/defense_JCA_070613/


 
Haletown said:
Looks like the Spartan wins won . . .
Maybe, but the Pentagon does not normally give "the go-ahead" in Canadian equipment selection.  I think you have some lines crossed here.
 
The information is provided as a point of interest. 

Equipment procurement, esp. expensive bits of kit like aircraft, is influenced by the Pentagon.  The Brick Brain on the Rideau, home of the tall foreheads that make the decisions, probably keeps an eye, or at least a blink, on what the Pentagon is doing.

Just a thought. 
 
This decision could very well be a defining point in this procurement enterprise.  With the USAF and US Army as large customers, the CF can piggy back on their supply chain and training environment.  We could conceivable alleviate the exorbitant cost of a simulator by buying time off the USAF - like we do with the U.K.'s Merlin simulator for our Cormorant pilots.

Again the commonality of parts with the J Model hercs may also lend towards making this deal a little sweeter.  Having such a huge pool of engines, props and other components all in North America would drastically shorten the supply chain between our forces (both US and Canadian) and the Italian manufacturer.

Just food for thought - nothing official here, please move on...
 
good backgrounder

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/06/12/214528/frontline-warrior-the-alenia-aeronautica-c-27-spartan.html


 
A post at The Torch--C-130J vs. C-27J for tactical airlifter:

...[A certain reporter] reports a great economy with the truth
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/06/david-********-reports-great-economy.html

Mark
Ottawa
 
MarkOttawa said:
A post at The Torch--C-130J vs. C-27J for tactical airlifter:

...[A certain reporter] reports a great economy with the truth
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/06/david-********-reports-great-economy.html

Mark
Ottawa

WTF?  "great economy"?!?  I think the word is "misleading"
 
I_am_John_Galt: I use the word "misleading" in the text.  "Economy with the truth" is commonly used as a polite way of saying "lying". ;)

Mark
Ottawa
 
Mod edit: we've had legal troubles here before, let's not bring that back on us.
 
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