Hamas invaded Israel 2023

[Quirky]

genocidal propaganda being circulating around

The ironing.

 

[KevinB]

And some don't understand why folks don't want Palestinians in there country...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1802069595718631792

 

[Remius]

Honestly I decided to join the conversation as I saw a lot of Israeli misinformation and genocidal propaganda being circulating around. And I didn't any see any Palestinian-Canadian adding their voice so I decided to step in.

Such as? I’m not seeing much if a conversation. You post then you leave, then you avoid uncomfortable questions then you post something else.

It's totally normal for us Canadians to criticize another foreign country that's currently on trial for Genocide, its leaders are becoming wanted criminals by the ICC and its army blacklisted/shamed by the UN for harming children. In fact, it's the moral thing to do.

Oh, the trial has started has it? You may have missed a few steps before that happens.

 

[Good2Golf]

Meanwhile the Arab support for Palestinian refugees is...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1802405753136836718

“…The problem is, as long as terrorist organizations like Hamas and others are elected to represent the Palestinian people, their plight will most likely continue as neither Israel nor the surrounding Arab nations want to see their own populations threatened by terrorist groups.”

There you have it folks. Palestinians who voted for Hamas and see it as the valid government of a Palestinian nation, have doomed themselves to misery…


@abduly85 Did your relatives vote for Hamas?

 

[RangerRay]

More on the group behind the Hamas summer camp at McGill.

My latest: Camp Hamas

McGill makes the wrong kind of headlines

open.substack.com

 

[OldSolduer]

“…The problem is, as long as terrorist organizations like Hamas and others are elected to represent the Palestinian people, their plight will most likely continue as neither Israel nor the surrounding Arab nations want to see their own populations threatened by terrorist groups.”

There you have it folks. Palestinians who voted for Hamas and see it as the valid government of a Palestinian nation, have doomed themselves to misery…


@abduly85 Did your relatives vote for Hamas?

Forced to elect Hamas at gunpoint I be thinkin....

And as I have said before indoctrination of the youth is a high priority for a dictatorship and a terrorist organization, and that includes the youth in North America

 

[Jarnhamar]

Honestly I decided to join the conversation as I saw a lot of Israeli misinformation and genocidal propaganda being circulating around. And I didn't any see any Palestinian-Canadian adding their voice so I decided to step in.

Let's take a look at what your first posts on joining the conversation looks like.

Wow, Israeli terrorist forces are deliberately targeting and killing a Canadian veteran...3 times... While he was on a mission to secure food Deliveries for to starving Palestinians!

Yes, because the ICJ, ICC, the UN, HRW, Amnesty international.. Etc are all anti-Semites.

I know, the truth hurts sometimes, so soldier on my son.
It's obvious you don't care about a fellow veteran (Jacob Flickinger) who was slained by another country and you'd rather stand with the Israeli terrorists who killed him than your own brethern.
I'm really questioning your loyalty to Canada.

Sure seems like you came in trying to rile us up on the account of a veteran being killed, and when we didn't start screaming for intifada you questioned our members loyalty to Canada.

Is that what a Palestinian-Canadian voice sounds like?

 

[KevinB]

Let's take a look at what your first posts on joining the conversation looks like.





Sure seems like you came in trying to rile us up on the account of a veteran being killed, and when we didn't start screaming for intifada you questioned our members loyalty to Canada.

Is that what a Palestinian-Canadian voice sounds like?

And he will ignore these questions and facts like before…

 

[abduly85]

If it was a real genocide and real ethnic cleansing was happening, you'd never would've been born. But you keep telling yourself that these things are happening. The palestinians love being victims.

You understand that genocide doesn't entail eliminating a 100% of a population (eg. Armenian genocide, Bosnian/Serbenecia genocide, even the Holocaust.. Etc).
Same goes for ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing entails displacement and dispossession, creating refugees (which is the case for my family).

Have you been to Gaza?

Would you be willing to return to Gaza and vote against Hamas?

I actually haven't been to Gaza before. So not many westerners know, but most Palestinians who were ethnically cleansed in 1948 and in 1967 were not allowed by Israel to ever return to Gaza or the West Bank (and obviously the rest of pre-1948 Palestine) unless you marry someone from within and go through hoops and a long process just to get a Palestinian ID "Hawiyya" (issued/approved by Israel) that allows you to return to Gaza/WB.

My parents were expelled to Egypt in 1967, they were issued an "Egyptian Travel Document for Palestinian Refugess", so the closest we could get to Gaza was Rafah on the Egyptian side (yes, there's a Rafah on the Egyptian side). So it was not until we became Canadian citizens that we could actually be allowed into Palestine (as Canadians), which we did visit in the late 2000s (didn't go to Gaza because Israel had increased its illegal blockade and restrictions on who goes in and out of Gaza).

But yeah, after this genocide, I wish I could go to Gaza to help the people and reconstruct (Israel pretty much levelled the place). As for voting, I wouldn't even be eligible to vote as Israel denies issuing us Palestinian IDs (the PA doesn't solely issue them, they coordinate with Israel).
As for whoever should be voted in well, that's something that the Palestinians should choose themselves and the West/other countries shouldn't dictate it and should respect the democratic outcome.

 

[Quirky]

As for whoever should be voted in well, that's something that the Palestinians should choose themselves and the West/other countries shouldn't dictate it and should respect the democratic outcome.

Palestinians chose hamas. Result is a complete levelling of gaza. Choose wisely. History tends to repeat itself.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Maybe the West should dictate and then real adults might get elected.....

 

[abduly85]

Truly regrettable loss of life, but you seem to take no issue with Egypt’s DIRECT blockading of Gaza as well, and the region Arab nations’ lack of any substantive support for Gazans. Why not?

What were your experiences like when you were in Gaza? I’m assuming you have been to Gaza?

I absolutely take issue with Egypt's government and with most other authoritarian Arab governments (and I believe I mentioned here before). The military regime in Egypt is definitely complicit in Gaza's blockade and could do a lot more to stop this Genocide (and I'm not even referring to a military intervention. They could do a lot more politically). The Egyptian regime is part of the problem, but it's not the main problem. The main problem is the Israeli and Zionist ideology rooted in the ethnic cleansing the indigenous Palestinians (long before even Hamas existed).

Now that doesn't mean there's little support from the Arab populous to Gaza and the Palestinians, on the contrary. However, and as we all now, most Arab regimes are authoritarian and are not representative of their people.

Palestinians chose hamas. Result is a complete levelling of gaza. Choose wisely. History tends to repeat itself.

I'll respectfully disagree with you on this as I consider it to be a typical Hasbara point (ie. Palestinians chose Hamas, so they deserve to be levelled along with Hamas).
Well, 50% of Gaza's population is children (under 18), so in 2006 when Hamas was elected, not only half of the current population didn't vote...but they weren't even born (or would've been 1 or 2 years old).
Another point is that populations aren't typically held responsible for their governments' action (for the most part). For example, the US-led war in Iraq resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis (not to mention the 500k children during the sanctions earlier). I, and I believe many Iraqis, would blame the US administration at the time...and not on the Americans en masse even though they voted for that administration.

 

[Good2Golf]

However, and as we all now, most Arab regimes are authoritarian and are not representative of their people.

Surely following Islam allows the very large majority of Arabs in the region to live rich and fulfilling lives, no matter the nature of the individual nations’ governmental / representational style.

Are you implying that citizens of these such Arab nations are leading less fulfilling lives because of the authoritarian nature of the governments?

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'll respectfully disagree with you on this as I consider it to be a typical Hasbara point (ie. Palestinians chose Hamas, so they deserve to be levelled along with Hamas).
Well, 50% of Gaza's population is children (under 18), so in 2006 when Hamas was elected, not only half of the current population didn't vote...but they weren't even born (or would've been 1 or 2 years old).

Palestinians supported Hamas January 25th 2006.

17 years later, in September 2023, when 50% of Gazas population was under 18, Palestinians still supported Hamas.

On October 8th 2023, after Hamas invaded Israel in a rape, murder, and kidnapping spree, when under 50% of Gazas population is under 18, support for Hamas exploded.


Palestinians have continued to support Hamas for 17 years (and got really excited when the raped murdered and kidnapped jews). Exactly what point are you trying to make with your 50% under 18 comment?

 

[lenaitch]

However, and as we all now, most Arab regimes are authoritarian and are not representative of their people.

I wonder why that is.

 

[IKnowNothing]

As for whoever should be voted in well, that's something that the Palestinians should choose themselves and the West/other countries shouldn't dictate it and should respect the democratic outcome.

The West/other countries did respect the democratic outcome. Hamas stayed in power.

If the Palestinians of Gaza wanted and elected leaders focused on peace, good governance, and the welfare of their people the outcomes of the last 16 years would have shown that. They instead chose terrorist zealots focused on jihad... and the results speak for themselves. They don't "deserve to be leveled", but choices have consequences.

"Hamas is the legitimate, democratically elected government and represents the will of the people" and the "people of Gaza are blameless victims caught in a conflict between Hamas and Israel" cannot both be true.

 

[TacticalTea]

However, and as we all now, most Arab regimes are authoritarian and are not representative of their people.

As a general rule, leaders are of and from the people and do represent the people, no matter the system of government.

This is so true, in fact, that as soon as the Palestinians got the right to vote, they elected Hamas, a theocratic, tyrannical organization of terrorists hell-bent on genocide.

Democracy is not a magic pill nor a one-size-fits-all.

 

[Infanteer]

Instead of conjecture and political theory, let's see what the Palestinians, and more specifically the Gazans, think?

Public Opinion Poll No (90) | PCPSR

pcpsr.org

We asked the respondents what they thought of Hamas’ decision to launch the October the 7th offensive given its outcome so far, a vast majority (72%) said it was a correct decision and 22% (12% in the West Bank and 37% in the Gaza Strip) said it was incorrect. The belief that Hamas' decision was right is higher in the West Bank (82%) compared to the Gaza Strip (57%), among men (75%) compared to women (69%), among the religious and the somewhat religious (76% and 71% respectively) compared to the non-religious (42%). It also increases among supporters of Hamas (92%) compared to supporters of Fateh and other forces (55% and 45% respectively).
....
While 95% think Israel has committed war crimes during the current war, only 10% think Hamas also committed such crimes; 4% think Israel has not committed such crimes and 89% think Hamas did not commit war crimes during the current war. 85% say they did not see videos, shown by international news outlets, showing acts committed by Hamas against Israeli civilians, such as the killing of women and children in their homes; only 14% saw these videos. The percentage of those who say they have seen these videos is higher in the Gaza Strip (25%) compared to the West Bank (7%), among the non-religious (31%) compared to the religious (15%), and among supporters of other forces and supporters of Fateh (21% and 20% respectively) compared to supporters of Hamas (12%).

When asked if Hamas did commit these atrocities, the overwhelming majority said no, it did not and only 7% said it did. Those who say that Hamas did not commit the atrocities seen in the videos are higher in the West Bank (97%) compared to the Gaza Strip (83%), among the religious and the somewhat religious (91% and 92% respectively), compared to the non-religious (75%) and among supporters of Hamas (97%) compared to supporters of Fateh and other forces (85% and 81% respectively). Belief that Hamas fighters have committed atrocities against civilians is also higher among those who did watch videos showing such atrocities (31%) compared to those who did not (3%). In the Gaza Strip, 41% of those who watched the videos believe that Hamas did commit these atrocities while only 8% of those who did not watch these videos believe that Hamas committed atrocities.
....
Support for Hamas increases in the West Bank from 12% three months ago to 44%; in the Gaza Strip support for Hamas rises from 38% three months ago to 42% today. Support for Fateh decreases in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip to 17% compared to 26% three months ago.
54% believe that Hamas is the most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people and only 13% believe that Fateh, led by Mahmoud Abbas, is the most deserving.

While criticism of Israel's policy, strategy and/or concept of operations and reported disregard for civilian casualties is one thing, you can't read these statements and not think "mess with the bull,....."

 

[KevinB]

You understand that genocide doesn't entail eliminating a 100% of a population (eg. Armenian genocide, Bosnian/Serbenecia genocide, even the Holocaust.. Etc).
Same goes for ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing entails displacement and dispossession, creating refugees (which is the case for my family).


I actually haven't been to Gaza before. So not many westerners know, but most Palestinians who were ethnically cleansed in 1948 and in 1967 were not allowed by Israel to ever return to Gaza or the West Bank (and obviously the rest of pre-1948 Palestine) unless you marry someone from within and go through hoops and a long process just to get a Palestinian ID "Hawiyya" (issued/approved by Israel) that allows you to return to Gaza/WB.

My parents were expelled to Egypt in 1967, they were issued an "Egyptian Travel Document for Palestinian Refugess", so the closest we could get to Gaza was Rafah on the Egyptian side (yes, there's a Rafah on the Egyptian side). So it was not until we became Canadian citizens that we could actually be allowed into Palestine (as Canadians), which we did visit in the late 2000s (didn't go to Gaza because Israel had increased its illegal blockade and restrictions on who goes in and out of Gaza).

But yeah, after this genocide, I wish I could go to Gaza to help the people and reconstruct (Israel pretty much levelled the place). As for voting, I wouldn't even be eligible to vote as Israel denies issuing us Palestinian IDs (the PA doesn't solely issue them, they coordinate with Israel).
As for whoever should be voted in well, that's something that the Palestinians should choose themselves and the West/other countries shouldn't dictate it and should respect the democratic outcome.

I wonder what you are smoking at times...
Hmm ethnic cleansing in 1948 and 1967? Let's look at exactly what the Arab world tried to do to Israel on those dates.

Maybe in 1948 when the Arab League attack Israel, and got their ass handed to them, and the country of Israel expanded to take buffer territory.
Then the Arab nations promised to take in Palestinians, as they had been forcibly expelling Jews anyway - with the promise they could return once Palestine was 'liberated" -

and lets not forget the PLO charter in 1964, which promised to destroy the Zionist presence...

Or 1967 when Egypt and Jordan decided to have another go (and kick out the UN Presence) but Israeli Air Force had destroyed the Egyptian Air Force then went on to wipe out the Jordanian and Iraqi Air Forces - and occupy even more land the Sinai, West Bank, East Jerusalem, Golan Heights etc...

Then in 1973 Egypt and Syria attacked on Yom Kippur, which led to more Arab nations sending troops - and the whole Oil Embargo - and then the Russians threatened to send troops to the Arab nations, and a ceasefire was called due to American pressure on Israel (as they where winning heavily again).

I mean for fucks sakes dude...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

You understand that genocide doesn't entail eliminating a 100% of a population (eg. Armenian genocide, Bosnian/Serbenecia genocide, even the Holocaust.. Etc).
Same goes for ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing entails displacement and dispossession, creating refugees (which is the case for my family).


I actually haven't been to Gaza before. So not many westerners know, but most Palestinians who were ethnically cleansed in 1948 and in 1967 were not allowed by Israel to ever return to Gaza or the West Bank (and obviously the rest of pre-1948 Palestine) unless you marry someone from within and go through hoops and a long process just to get a Palestinian ID "Hawiyya" (issued/approved by Israel) that allows you to return to Gaza/WB.

My parents were expelled to Egypt in 1967, they were issued an "Egyptian Travel Document for Palestinian Refugess", so the closest we could get to Gaza was Rafah on the Egyptian side (yes, there's a Rafah on the Egyptian side). So it was not until we became Canadian citizens that we could actually be allowed into Palestine (as Canadians), which we did visit in the late 2000s (didn't go to Gaza because Israel had increased its illegal blockade and restrictions on who goes in and out of Gaza).

But yeah, after this genocide, I wish I could go to Gaza to help the people and reconstruct (Israel pretty much levelled the place). As for voting, I wouldn't even be eligible to vote as Israel denies issuing us Palestinian IDs (the PA doesn't solely issue them, they coordinate with Israel).
As for whoever should be voted in well, that's something that the Palestinians should choose themselves and the West/other countries shouldn't dictate it and should respect the democratic outcome.

My Jewish friends families were expelled from Iraqi and from Morocco for the crime of being Jewish. Their family roots were centuries old in Morocco and time immemorial in Iraq. In fact the majority of indigenous Jewish population in Muslim countries were expelled or ethnically cleansed.

Yes it sucked for your family, but the palestinian issue is directly linked to the Arabs attempting to wipe out the Jews in the area. Muslims have better look long and hard in the mirror before pointing the ethnic cleansing and genocide finger.