How to lose weight in a healthy way (merged)

[Ascendant]

Kratos knows best, clearly.

When did I say or imply I "know best"? I didn't...

The Paleo/caveman diet and it's supporters were adamant about (among other things) the exclusion of grains from their diets because that's not how a caveman ate. There's a very popular website, Mark's Daily Apple, run by Mark Sisson, one of the biggest pushers of "Primal eating". He demonizes grains and so do most of the Paleo/primal followers.

I have been on more than one forum where there have been heated and long winded debates on the Paleo diet.

So yes, I find it hilarious that there is now very strong evidence, basically to the point of fact, that cavemen ate grains.

 

[MJP]

When did I say or imply I "know best"? I didn't...

The Paleo/caveman diet and it's supporters were adamant about (among other things) the exclusion of grains from their diets because that's not how a caveman ate. There's a very popular website, Mark's Daily Apple, run by Mark Sisson, one of the biggest pushers of "Primal eating". He demonizes grains and so do most of the Paleo/primal followers.

So yes, I find it hilarious that there is now very strong evidence, basically to the point of fact, that cavemen ate grains.

Can you post the study/studies that point to widespread grain within the Paleolithic population?  I wrote an essay for a bio anthro course on our Paleolithic ancestors diet last year and the prevailing research hasn’t shown a grain based trend for them.  That is not to say there was not usage of grains, however the evidence is slim.  Most isotope studies of Paleolithic bones have not supported the notion of a grains based diet, but rather a diet of meat (in many forms), fruits, nuts & vegetables as the dominant foods in their diets.

All that said, I think people have to take a step back and look at what works for them.  Personally for me milk doesn't help, but lots of the guys I train with swear by it when they are building up bulk.  For me it makes my body generally feel crappy, but it wasn’t till I took it out of my diet and then reintroduce it that I found this out. 

 

Ignore the horrible formating my browser was not making it easy to to cut and paste the citations in.

1. Diet, Mobility, and Settlement Pattern among Holocene Hunter-Gatherers in Southernmost Africa,  Judith Sealy, Current Anthropology, Vol. 47, No. 4 (Aug., 2006), pp. 569-595

      Neanderthal Diet at Vindija and Neanderthal Predation: The Evidence from Stable Isotopes, Michael P. Richards, Paul B. Pettitt, Erik Trinkaus, Fred H. Smith, Maja Paunovic, Ivor Karavanic, Vol. 97, No. 13 (Jun. 20, 2000), pp. 7663-7666 Published by: National Academy of Sciences

Stable Isotope Evidence for Increasing Dietary Breadth in the European Mid-Upper Paleolithic , Michael P. Richards, Paul B. Pettitt, Mary C. Stiner, Erik Trinkau, Vol. 98, No. 11 (May 22, 2001), pp. 6528-6532 Published by: National Academy of Sciences

Mesolithic and Neolithic Subsistence in Denmark: New Stable Isotope Data, Michael P. Richards, T. Douglas Price, Eva Koch, Current Anthropology. 44, No. 2,

edited for horrible grammar

 

[northernboy_24]

Eat what you want, but realize that people NEED a balance of complex carbs, proteins and healthy fats.  Associated with those foods you need to balance your intake of nutrients, vitamins and minerals.  Eating lots of vegetables and fruits is important (fiber, nutrients, vitamins and sometimes healthy fats).  The good news is that fruits are necessary and great for you.  Yes they contain sugars that is why you dont eat a bag of oranges or apples a day but they are great for you in moderation.

Complex carbs are necessary especially if you are active
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/34/9/1831
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/288/20/2569

As for those of you eating tons of proteins, that could cause issues as well (no long term analysis in healthy kidneys but patients with less than optimal renal function should be very careful)  Do not eat more than 2g/kg/day  1.5-1.9g/kg/day has been shown to be beneficial in high output athletes.

So what does this say, dont eat white pasta all day every day, dont eat extreme amounts of fruits, veggies, fats or proteins.  Have a healthy diet, balanced diet is important.  We need healthy fats (flax oil, olive oil, avocados, seafood (fish oils) and heck even nuts.

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/2/1/25
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3018342  (yes men can have breast cancer)

Dont consume too much sodium (1500-2000mg/day; 2000 if you are sweating a lot), drink lots of water.  Your body needs fats and needs carbs to survive.  Stressing your body on a extremely low carb input to the point where you get dizzy (aka atkins) is not healthy.  Carbs and fats feed the brain and your muscles the energy they need to perform.

If you dont like my advice then talk to a licensed nutritionist.  Complex carbs dont always have to be grains (casava, sweet potato etc)

 

[Ascendant]

Can you post the study/studies that point to widespread grain within the Paleolithic population?  I wrote an essay for a bio anthro course on our Paleolithic ancestors diet last year and the prevailing research hasn’t shown a grain based trend for them.  That is not to say there was not usage of grains, however the evidence is slim.  Most isotope studies of Paleolithic bones have not supported the notion of a grains based diet, but rather a diet of meat (in many forms), fruits, nuts & vegetables as the dominant foods in their diets.

All that said, I think people have to take a step back and look at what works for them.  Personally for me milk doesn't help, but lots of the guys I train with swear by it when they are building up bulk.  For me it makes my body generally feel crappy, but it wasn’t till I took it out of my diet and then reintroduce it that I found this out.

I never said their diets were grain based.

This news broke last week, I believe:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1321844/Stone-Age-man-ate-bread-just-meat.html

http://www.livescience.com/technology/ancient-flour-suggests-cavement-balanced-diet-101019.html

http://www.science20.com/cool-links/cavemans_kitchen_grains_menu_20000_years_farming

http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=humans-made-flour-30000-years-ago-10-10-19

 

[Mudshuvel]

... so easy a caveman could do it!

Sorry, just had to say it.

 

[MJP]

I never said their diets were grain based.

This news broke last week, I believe:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1321844/Stone-Age-man-ate-bread-just-meat.html

http://www.livescience.com/technology/ancient-flour-suggests-cavement-balanced-diet-101019.html

http://www.science20.com/cool-links/cavemans_kitchen_grains_menu_20000_years_farming

http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=humans-made-flour-30000-years-ago-10-10-19

I think even the most fervent researchers of paleolithic diets have conceded that grains made up a small portion of their diets.  To say it isn't so is to ignore archaeological findings and quite frankly I wouldn't pay much attention to their research.  Although reading the news articles it doesn't sound like they were cultivating the plants like our ancestors 10,000 years ago did when they gradually made the switch to horticulture.  I will certainly read the source article over the next few days though as it sounds interesting (as interesting as finding 30000 year old flour can be I guess
.

The science however still shows through bone studies that their diet was primarily meat, fruit and veggies(or what passed for veggies back then).  Until we get better methods, and/or a broader sample base (or time machines) those are the findings we have to work with. 

 

[Ascendant]

The science however still shows through bone studies that their diet was primarily meat, fruit and veggies(or what passed for veggies back then).  Until we get better methods, and/or a broader sample base (or time machines) those are the findings we have to work with.

Most people primarily eat meat, fruits and veggies. I'm not arguing with that.

The point was simply to lol at the Paleo prophets and groupies that demonize grains in our diet solely because the caveman didn't eat them.

 

[MJP]

Most people primarily eat meat, fruits and veggies. I'm not arguing with that.

The point was simply to lol at the Paleo prophets and groupies that demonize grains in our diet solely because the caveman didn't eat them.

Well you certainly got them......I am sure they feel appropriately chastised.

 

[Ascendant]

Well you certainly got them......I am sure they feel appropriately chastised.

I know, right.

 

[dinicthus]

The point was simply to lol at the Paleo prophets and groupies that demonize grains in our diet solely because the caveman didn't eat them.

I wonder how they prove that? The few frozen or fossilized ancients they have discovered didn't eat grains shortly before their demise, thus they can make blanket assumptions?

I see that societies that we regard as primitive don't have a great deal of grains in their diet, but, it isn't "cave days" now so who knows what grew then? And grains are not the only source of carbs. Potatoes, squash, bananas/plantains in warmer climes, and other stuff have carbs a-plenty.

 

[eharps]

Hey guys,

This is my first time posting here and I have a seemingly simple question, but first I'll give a little backstory.

I applied for Infantry and Combat Engineer in early February and just confirmed that my CFAT will be on April 13 in Ottawa. I have been using the time that I have to get in better physical shape than I have been in. I have always been of a rather stocky build due to growing up on a farm with lots of long days and hard work. When I started I was 6"1 242 pounds, with some extra fat around the middle, but not a huge amount. My BMI has always rated me as obese so I decided that I should work on losing as much as I can to make all of the exercises easier and, eventually, BMQ.

Currently I am 220 pounds after putting some work into it, running and weight training, but I have hit a plateau. My mid section has thinned a bit but I am looking to lose more weight to get into my ideal range, ~185 pounds.

My question, after that short novel, is what sort of exercises can I do in order to break through this sort of weight barrier and keep progressing towards a leaner self? What do you guys do to stay in shape or get in shape? My go to is a run, burpees, some P90X (mostly cardio) and weights.

Cheers,

eharps

PS Also running in Ottawa Spartan Sprint this year for the first time! That should help prepare me!  :-\

 

[sidemount]

Don't forget that weight and fitness level arent always black and white.

First question would be, are you fit the way you are?

I know lots of people around your height in the 200lbs range that are very fit, lots of muscle mass though.


Second thing is, with weight, diet and exercise are very closely tied together.

If you want to lose weight, you need a diet that, after your resting metabolic rate and daily exercise, is calorie deficient. At the same time you don't want to cut too much because you will lose muscle mass instead of fat.
Also need to look at the types of food you are eating.....there is a whole science behind this.

I suggest that if you have plateaued with exercise, you do some good research into your diet and adjust there.

 

[ProPatria05]

Sidemount has it absolutely right. Exercise alone will get rid of that first round of 'easy to lose' weight. After that, you need to temporarily adjust your diet so that calories in are less than calories out. Once you're where you want to be it's regular exercise plus healthy diet.

I can speak from experience the effect of cutting too many calories and losing weight too fast, which I did when I was 17 (25 years ago  ). I lost 35 pounds in about 3 months on basically a starvation diet while doing intense exercise. A lot of that weight was muscle mass, exactly as Sidemount has described. It took a long time to gain that back.

Slow and steady wins the race.

 

[eharps]

Thanks a lot sidemount/ProPatria05.

I have a lot of muscle mass and a rather big build, but yes I am relatively fit. I could stand to lose some more fat, but nothing im going to lose sleep over. I count calories on a daily basis as a way of monitoring not only my consumption, but also what I am eating.

I used to eat a lot of whatever I wanted but only recently have starting paying attention to veggies/nuts/healthy fats/fish vs processed food as of late. I have noticed that while remaining the same sort of shape, my waistline and hipline are reducing, so clearly I am moving in the right direction.

I think you guys are right about the long term race however, I think most of my struggle is just mental and my desire to lose fat doesn't match up with realistic pacing. I appreciate the pointers and will continue to continue on!

I guess my consideration is more image-minded not fit-minded. Just want to be ready that's all!

 

[sidemount]

By the sounds of things you are doing exactly what you need to be doing.

If you have the muscle mass and are fit, I wouldn't worry about trying to rock another 35-40lbs of cut. Ignore (for the most part) BMI, people with a greater than average muscle mass it doesn't tell the whole story.

To be quite honest, if I were you, and you are fit like you have said, I'd be looking into maintaining with a possible drop of 10-15lbs, and the reason for that is this: You have your trade choices as infantry and combat engineer. Yeah being able to be the fastest runner is great but deployed and on ex its going to be a lot of pack-mule like times, carrying a ton of kit. If you drop the 35-40lbs like you were wanting, I'm gonna bet that you will lose a lot of muscle mass doing that. 10-15 is a more realistic goal, you can maintain muscle mass, and while doing this, work on your cardio so you aren't at the back of the pack all the time.

For workouts, my default is crossfit style. Its a nice combo of everything.

Also, take everything above with a grain of salt as its just my opinion, but in 12 years of the army it hasn't failed me yet.

 

[eharps]

I appreciate that, practical advice is generally better than trying to reach some standardized physique I would imagine.

I will keep on truckin'

Many thanks,

Evan

 

[mariomike]

In case a little inspiration is necessary. 
At 01:25:
http://www.yourememberthat.com/media/3037/The_D_I__Jack_Webb/#.VQxF3bt0x9A

"You ain't gonna eat no bread, no corn, no pie, cake, desserts of any kind. No whole milk, no beans, no butter, no sugar, no potatoes, candy, ice cream, salad dressing or peanut butter... You came here with nothing but fat. You're gonna leave here with nothing but muscle."

 

[Jarnhamar]

Going to the gym alone won't make you loose weight.  Instead of just having fat you'll be building heavy muscle under the fat.  You need to look at your diet and adjust that too.  You can't target certain parts of your body for fat loss because loosing fat is an over all effect. You'll notice you loose weight in your face before your stomach because it's a smaller area.


Personally I worked out twice a day for 2-3 months and I couldn't lose a pound.  I switched to the south beach diet and after a month it was like a switch was thrown and I was basically loosing a pound a day for 40 pounds.

This is why soldiers who deploy to the field for a month and a half can sit around on their ass and loose 20-30 pounds.

 

[coachman]

Hi.
I just remembered one useful technique that military personnel in the past did to drop their weight.

Go to the hardware store and get yourself a plastic wrap and a couple of towels.

Wrap your body from your shoulders to the waist a lot of times, somewhere in the middle place towels. Is to pick up a sweat.
Jog for one hour to warm up and then start jogging for 2 - 4 hours non stop. You will sweat, you will sweat so much.

But, the results are outstanding.

 

[dangerboy]

What military pers did this?