King Charles III Coronation Medal

[PrairieFella]

You have to remember, that a military person, who has made it a career, will go on dozens, perhaps hundreds, of deployments as part of their "job". No one has the chest to accommodate the medals you are suggesting.

On the Civilian side, there are Provincial Awards. There are also National Awards, as well. Police, Corrections and Fire Services also have their Awards. All of these are medals. Civilians can also earn UN medals, as you mention later.


Yes. Unfortunately, you are correct there. At the same time, they are getting a 'higher' award that is meeting criteria that lower ranks may not meet.

If you are wondering about the criteria set for Canadian Honours, Medals and Awards, here are a couple Government of Canada links, and you may find that some of your concerns about creating awards, those criteria have already been created:

Medals and awards - Canada.ca

Canadian military honours and recognition, orders, decorations, medals, insignia, departmental awards and memorials.

www.canada.ca

Canadian Medals Chart - Canada.ca

This chart shows the sequence to wear modern Canadian orders, decorations and medals.

www.canada.ca

I have no idea in which world it's possible for a soldier to do hundreds of deployments. I get serving since Centurion was a rank not a tank but man, we both know that's impossible.

 

[foresterab]

Was curious as I know few folks who received the Queen's Diamond Jubilee in recognition for service. All had at least 40 years active and in one case 50 years with half still active and then in turn received theirs through provincial nomination processes. So looked around to see what other areas were doing.

Australia awarded 10 King Charles Coronation Medals - all to holders of the VC or Cross of Valor

King Charles III Coronation Medal Presentation

King Charles III Coronation Medal Presentation on the Government House Queensland website.

www.govhouse.qld.gov.au

New Zealand had some personal involved with Coronation ceremony but permission to wear the medal awarded needs permission as it's considered a foreign award due to being British.

Canada has some who will be awarded the British medal due to participation in the Coronation ceremony....I did however read over 7,000 people were involved including police/fire/armed forces.

And then the bulk of the 400,000 medals issued in the UK to :

1. The medal is also due to be given to serving frontline members of the Armed Forces, police, fire, emergency services and prison services who have completed five full calendar years of service.
2. Living individual recipients of the George Cross or of the Victoria Cross will also be recognised.
3. It appears military veterans with enough years of service are also eligible to apply (not automatic issuance)

Of additional interest it appears the UK issued 120,000 medals to commemorate the Coronation of Queen Elizabeth in 1952.

 

[Maxman1]

No reason ribbons couldn't be worn on street operations with the uniform we used to wear, if they felt the need to do so...

So just like Commissionaires.

 

[mariomike]

So just like Commissionaires.

Right.

Especially if one considers Canadian Corps of Commisionaires security guards "just like" municipal emergency services.

​

 

[Maxman1]

Right.

Especially if one considers Canadian Corps of Commisionaires security guards "just like" municipal emergency services.

Bump off, you know what I mean.

 

[CountDC]

Now, I don't agree with that. That, in my opinion is going way overboard. After all, that is what the CD is. You have just reduced the time, to create a redundant award, and a "Gimme". I even have a bit of a problem with what is now considered a Veteran that includes people, who in extreme cases, "signed on the "Dotted Line" and quite two days later".

Don't know where that definition of veteran is from. VAC requires completion of basic training to be considered a vet. legion used to require 1 year of service before they would certify a member as a vet eligible to obtain the vet license plate - has that changed?

"Still On PAT" bar for SSM..."Spent my whole career in CFRG...As a Recruit" bar to the CD, with say a different coloured ribbon?

I knew of a mbr that had a CD and only completed basic training. Never completed a trade course.

Without being convicted.

Thank you - I point this out every time someone mentions I went with undetected crimes. Sometimes things are detected but members are not charged or convicted.

Military Combat/Valor recognition. My only knock on these is that Canada seems to recognize general staff/SNCO's disproportionally to enlisted personelle

To be a bit picky SNCO's are enlisted members that are the rank of Sgt.

You have to remember, that a military person, who has made it a career, will go on dozens, perhaps hundreds, of deployments as part of their "job". No one has the chest to accommodate the medals you are suggesting.

Ummm - I have volunteered for deployments but the CAF has always decided my services were needed else where. Closest I got to a deployment was when they offered a 1 year unaccompanied when I was no longer looking for one of them and applied for a 4 year accompanied outcan. Politely replied that the 1 years were no longer my thing and that they should have taken me up on them during the 30 years I had volunteered.

I have to admit I am a bit torn on the short service medal idea considering I was already jaded some on the CD. If you do the match on a CD a member of the regular force will do 4380 to get it while a reservist by regulations that are not enforced only needs 144 half days (with the way some units operate you could get away with a lot less). Perhaps a Short Service Medal with something to distinguish between reserve and regular? Colour or bar with RES/REG?

Fully support a DOMOPS medal especially with the governments at all levels continuously leaning more and more on the military for assistance for them instead of properly funding other agencies that should be in place to deal with them.

For commemorative medals they absolutely should be given to everyone serving on the day of the event it is for.

 

[PrairieFella]

Don't know where that definition of veteran is from. VAC requires completion of basic training to be considered a vet. legion used to require 1 year of service before they would certify a member as a vet eligible to obtain the vet license plate - has that changed?

I knew of a mbr that had a CD and only completed basic training. Never completed a trade course.


Thank you - I point this out every time someone mentions I went with undetected crimes. Sometimes things are detected but members are not charged or convicted.

To be a bit picky SNCO's are enlisted members that are the rank of Sgt.

Ummm - I have volunteered for deployments but the CAF has always decided my services were needed else where. Closest I got to a deployment was when they offered a 1 year unaccompanied when I was no longer looking for one of them and applied for a 4 year accompanied outcan. Politely replied that the 1 years were no longer my thing and that they should have taken me up on them during the 30 years I had volunteered.

I have to admit I am a bit torn on the short service medal idea considering I was already jaded some on the CD. If you do the match on a CD a member of the regular force will do 4380 to get it while a reservist by regulations that are not enforced only needs 144 half days (with the way some units operate you could get away with a lot less). Perhaps a Short Service Medal with something to distinguish between reserve and regular? Colour or bar with RES/REG?

Fully support a DOMOPS medal especially with the governments at all levels continuously leaning more and more on the military for assistance for them instead of properly funding other agencies that should be in place to deal with them.

For commemorative medals they absolutely should be given to everyone serving on the day of the event it is for.

Different recognition for the Reg and Res is fine and dandy until you have to look a long-term reservist with several combat tours in Afghanistan in the face and tell him his service is worth less than the Reg purple trade dude with zero deployments and that his awards should reflect that fact for all to see.

Exaggeration sure, but you get my point.

 

[CountDC]

Different recognition for the Reg and Res is fine and dandy until you have to look a long-term reservist with several combat tours in Afghanistan in the face and tell him his service is worth less than the Reg purple trade dude with zero deployments and that his awards should reflect that fact for all to see.

Exaggeration sure, but you get my point.

Except he will have the medal and bars recognizing him for the combat tours which the reg guy doesn't have and the CD doesn't recognize him for.

 

[Remius]

Just don’t have a reserve or a regular force version and just make it time based and create a shorter term service medal that gets replaced when you qualify for a CD.

 

[medicineman]

Just don’t have a reserve or a regular force version and just make it time based and create a shorter term service medal that gets replaced when you qualify for a CD.

But...but...that might mean fewer gongs for those whose egos depend on them though .

[sarcasm]

 

[Remius]

Or even better. Change the current requirements for the CD to 5 years of paid service and put the 1st bar when you get to 12 years.

0 cost except the staff work to change the eligibility.

 

[dapaterson]

Better yet, stop the stupid dick swinging contests, stop thinking that eating dirt for six months makes you better than someone whose career kept you paid, fed and equipped, and grow up.

 

[PrairieFella]

Better yet, stop the stupid dick swinging contests, stop thinking that eating dirt for six months makes you better than someone whose career kept you paid, fed and equipped, and grow up.

I don't think anyone here is saying anything along those lines?

 

[dapaterson]

I don't think anyone here is saying anything along those lines?

Different recognition for the Reg and Res is fine and dandy until you have to look a long-term reservist with several combat tours in Afghanistan in the face and tell him his service is worth less than the Reg purple trade dude with zero deployments and that his awards should reflect that fact for all to see.

Exaggeration sure, but you get my point.

 

[PrairieFella]

I think if you reread my comment you'll see I'm actually agreeing with the spirit of your comment lol. Ie it's not a dick-measuring contest, I was highlighting that a reservist's service is just as valuable as a reg's and that perhaps it would be poor optics to have reservists arbitrarily wearing different awards and decorations for the simple fact that they're a reservist. It's a bit of an exaggeration on my part but I still have about a dozen combat vets in my reserve unit, so only a bit of an exaggeration.

I touched a nerve on this one lol.

 

[Remius]

I think if you reread my comment you'll see I'm actually agreeing with the spirit of your comment lol. Ie it's not a dick-measuring contest, I was highlighting that a reservist's service is just as valuable as a reg's and that perhaps it would be poor optics to have reservists arbitrarily wearing different awards and decorations for the simple fact that they're a reservist. It's a bit of an exaggeration on my part but I still have about a dozen combat vets in my reserve unit, so only a bit of an exaggeration.

I touched a nerve on this one lol.

Interestingly enough a lot of reg force guys would be able to wear reservist bling if it was a thing.

 

[Furniture]

I think if you reread my comment you'll see I'm actually agreeing with the spirit of your comment lol. Ie it's not a dick-measuring contest, I was highlighting that a reservist's service is just as valuable as a reg's and that perhaps it would be poor optics to have reservists arbitrarily wearing different awards and decorations for the simple fact that they're a reservist. It's a bit of an exaggeration on my part but I still have about a dozen combat vets in my reserve unit, so only a bit of an exaggeration.

I touched a nerve on this one lol.

You kind of undermine your own argument with your last sentence.

Why is combat service more worth than non-combat service? What about purple support trades that signed up to do support functions, and found themselves "combat veterans"? My purple support trade of less than 250 had/has more than a dozen "combat veterans"...

Back to the prior argument about the CD and a different award for Res service. I think there there might be an argument for a different CD ribbon based on whether the majority of your time to 12 years was full-time, or part-time, with neither being inherently superior. A person committing 12+ years of their life to the CAF is worthy of recognition, but perhaps recognizing the personal sacrifices made by people who hold civilian jobs full-time, then also serve the CAF in their time off is worthy of recognition.

Back to the main topic of the thread, if I was PM every member at OFP on the day of the coronation would have received the medal. The point of the medal is to commemorate the King's coronation, not recognize a member's performance. We have awards for that purpose already, so using the coronation medal that way just gives bosses an "easy way out", rather than doing the work to properly recognize their people.

 

[dimsum]

You kind of undermine your own argument with your last sentence.

Why is combat service more worth than non-combat service? What about purple support trades that signed up to do support functions, and found themselves "combat veterans"? My purple support trade of less than 250 had/has more than a dozen "combat veterans"...

I think that is a combination of the Afghanistan legacy, and US military bleed over. When Afghanistan was in full swing, GCS-SWA and GSM-SWA were so common in the CAF writ large (yes, the RCN and certain RCAF fleets didn’t generally have people deploy there) that after a while, it was unusual not to see it on someone’s DEU. Now, there are people with CDs that wouldn’t have joined during that time.

The “US military bleed over” point is a combo of media (POGs vs grunts, that sort of thing) and inherent US military biases. When someone gets awarded the Bronze Star Medal (BSM), that sounds impressive but you can be awarded that as almost an “end of tour” medal if you did your job without any mess-ups. However, if you have the BSM with Valor device (a small V on the ribbon), then that’s a completely different category of medal and you did something worthy of the write-up.

Back to the prior argument about the CD and a different award for Res service. I think there there might be an argument for a different CD ribbon based on whether the majority of your time to 12 years was full-time, or part-time, with neither being inherently superior. A person committing 12+ years of their life to the CAF is worthy of recognition, but perhaps recognizing the personal sacrifices made by people who hold civilian jobs full-time, then also serve the CAF in their time off is worthy of recognition.

The problem with that idea (which isn’t a bad one, btw) is that due to the placement, it would be inherently superior or inferior.

Example: There is a poster with all of the medals and commendations, with their order of precedence. Would the “part time CD” be higher or lower than the “full time CD”? There are various GCS’s with different ribbons but all are in an order - the IMPACT one being higher (worn closer to the centre) than the Afghanistan one, for example.

I think that a delineation between a Reg vs Res CD would just further lead to uncomfortable questions such as whether it should be 12 years of full time service, or just a straight 12 years when you sign the dotted line. My Res service wasn’t completely full time so I didn’t get that converted totally to the equivalent dates of full time service for my pension, which makes sense, so should my CD eligibility match that? When I was on Class A I wasn’t subject to CSD when not in uniform and/or at the unit.

Back to the main topic of the thread, if I was PM every member at OFP on the day of the coronation would have received the medal. The point of the medal is to commemorate the King's coronation, not recognize a member's performance. We have awards for that purpose already, so using the coronation medal that way just gives bosses an "easy way out", rather than doing the work to properly recognize their people.

Absolutely.

 

[Furniture]

Example: There is a poster with all of the medals and commendations, with their order of precedence. Would the “part time CD” be higher or lower than the “full time CD”? There are various GCS’s with different ribbons but all are in an order - the IMPACT one being higher (worn closer to the centre) than the Afghanistan one, for example.

I should have been a bit more clear. Each member would only ever receive one ribbon or the other, so the medal would occupy the exact same space in the order of precedence. The ribbon would be based on service up to the 12, with subsequent bars being added to the medal as initially issued regardless of which type of service they were awarded for. I know we don't have anything like that right now, but it would be a pretty easy thing to do.

 

[MacNav63]

It's interesting that this discussion is basically leading back to the situation that existed prior to the creation of the CD (and when all decorations were part of the Imperial honour system). As a militia officer, my grandfather received the Efficiency Decoration (it had been called the Volunteer Decoration until someone realized no one wanted to put VD after their name...not that anyone now would want ED either). That was awarded to officers for 20 years militia service. The NCM equivalent was the Efficiency Medal (12 years). Presumably, permanent force members recieved the British Medal for Long Service and Good conduct which, interestingly, was only awarded for service in the ranks. The CD simplified matters so that there was no longer a distinction between regular or reserve service, or officers or NCMS. It just counted years of service. In the case of someone like my Dad, it counted his 4 years on Active Service in the war, 3 years in COTC (technically the reserves) and his subsequent service in the Reg Force. The only exception to the 12 year rule of course is the GG. Even Honouraries/Royals have to tick off the 12 year box for the medal and 10 years for the clasps. It has at least the merit of simplicity.