Leave Policy – Annual (time off, after hours, ect...) [Merged]

[ballz]

Just for the sake of this discussion, here is what is outlined in "Canadian Forces Leave Policy Manual - CFLPM 3.1.05 Ordering members on annual leave"

The CO may order a member on annual leave. Prior to doing so, the following factors should be considered:
• That leave accumulation, if applicable, may occur only when the member was unable to take annual leave due to imperative military requirements;
• That the purpose of annual leave is to sustain initiative and enthusiasm; encourage physical and mental well-being; and provide an opportunity for rest and relaxation;
• The wishes of the individual;
• Imperative military requirements;
• The effectiveness of the unit; and
• Unit leave plans.
The Commandant of a CF school, training or educational facility may require that personnel take annual leave prior to reporting for long courses, as the course curriculum may not permit granting leave.

None of the things listed would support me being ordered to take leave. I have heard of being ordered to take leave because of deployments and because annual leave was not used up, but this is the exact opposite of annual leave not being used up.

MJP... Who would you usually contact at a given unit (for example, 1RNfldR) to see if they will take you under their wing? I had actually tried to get 5 weeks of SLT during this time but it got shot down somewhere in Borden pretty quick.

Looks like I better start writing up that memo...

Task... thanks, I guess I'll head down tomorrow. Would you recommend just going to their OR and explaining why you are there and going from there then?

 

[MJP]

MJP... Who would you usually contact at a given unit (for example, 1RNfldR) to see if they will take you under their wing? I had actually tried to get 5 weeks of SLT during this time but it got shot down somewhere in Borden pretty quick.

They usually have a Reg Force RSS officer or NCO availiable during the day to talk to, and sometimes they have a other staff in during the day.  They might not be able to approve it and may have to get permission from the CO/DCO.  This is usually a formality as I haven't seen anybody turned down…..yet. 

That's a tough job there MJP.....you should be slaving like me!!  ;D

Like I said above I try and choose my EWAT.......sometimes there are advantages to it Besides it isn't like you are working anyway.

 

[yoman]

You may want to bring up the possibility of them granting you special leave if this doesn't work out for you.

"CFLPM 5.5.01"

Special Leave (Military Courses) applies to Regular Force or Reserve Force members on Class “B” or "C" reserve service who are in full time attendance on military courses or in full time attendance at educational institutions including Canadian or international Military Colleges.

The OCC or the Commandant of a Canadian Military College may grant up to 14 consecutive calendar days Special Leave (Military Courses) to a student who is under instruction or awaiting a course of instruction.

Special Leave (Military Courses) may only be granted:

• When it is in the best interest of the CF to grant such leave;
• For reasons beyond the control of the student; and
• When the granting of another type of leave is not considered appropriate.

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/pd/lea-con/doc/cflpm-mprcfc-eng.pdf

 

[chrisf]

Reference contacts, check your PMs.

Given the state of reserve manning right now, there's a very good chance that one of the local units would be interested in somone who's already being paid for.

 

[Barts]

The Leave Policy Manual covers your exact situation in section 5.6
[quote author=CFLPM 5.6.01]
Special Leave (Education) was introduced to address two distinct situations associated with attendance at an educational institution:
• Situations when members were not required to perform academic or service duties.
• Periods between the cessation of summer training and the date on which a member is required to return to a university or Canadian Military College to begin academic or service training.
When attending an educational institution at public expense, up to 60 days Special Leave (Education) may be granted when the member is not required to perform academic or military duties.[/quote]

But if that fails...

Find any unit you can contact, because EWAT doesn't need to be related to your trade. I've known a pilot working in a supply warehouse and seen an infantry officer working with cadets in Whitehorse - both on EWAT.  You just need to be somewhere (anywhere), or on leave. 

Doing your own legwork to find EWAT placements ties in with the "You are your own career manager" concept.  It might also help get you the placement you want, as you'll be 100% focused on yourself (this time, that's a good thing) instead of depending on someone who's managing multiple files.

 

[ballz]

Just for an update, since I've received some PMs offering help and although it's sincerely appreciated I would like to clear up that I've got this sorted out now. Got picked up by a good unit and had my first day with them today, learned a lot and expect to learn a ton over the next 4-5 weeks.

I was sketchy about the Special Academic leave idea because at the SEM brief we were told it would only be given out for "legit" reasons but, as it turns out, family-related visits are considered a legit reason, so, no worries there.

 

[Clancey01]

I was accepted to RMC for the 2011-2012 year. I was wondering if anyone knew typically when it is possible to get a few days leave. It's my understanding it is at least 7 weeks but I could very well be mistaken. Also does it vary from staff to staff like the rest of the CF courses out there.

Thanks

 

[Strike]

Once you go through the Arch of the college, you typically won't be given any leave until the weekend after Ex-Cadet weekend (which is usually the weekend before Thanksgiving).

As for weekdays, pretty much a no-go unless there are compassionate reasons.  Except for statutory holidays of course.

 

[Clancey01]

That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.

I don't suppose if anyone knows if reserve enlisted time will count towards OCdt pay or will they transfer my current rank to the reg force equivalent (I know that pay scale can drop down when counting reserve to reg time) then receive that pay. I know this doesn't have to do with this post and that is the least confusing way I could word that.

 

[RMCMOM]

I am the mom of a RMCC cadet who just finished her first year.  She did not get any weekend time off until after the Obstacle course, during the reunion weekend she had time that she was able to spend with us.  After the end of FYOP it was like normal university, weekends off except for those few Commodants weekends throughout the school year.  3 weeks at Christmas, there was a 1 week reading break in Feb.  You are at RMC until after Graduation weekend then depending on your summer training depends on how much time you get in the summer.  My daughter got 1 week before starting BMOQ and will get another 2 weeks off after BMOQ before having to be back in Kingston the week before school starts.

 

[murrdawg]

To answer your question about reserve pay, I know when I was at RMC (about a year ago when I graduated), they were talking about eliminating the "reserve carry over" to RMC cadets. I do not know if this has changed.

Speaking from personal experience, RMCMOM is correct in the leave however, there is a difference. You do have 21 days of annual leave a year. You will use up some for your Christmas holidays, and if you have leftovers by reading break, you will use them then. However, if you have gaps of days between exams, you are allowed to take leave upon submitting a leave pass to either go home earlier for Christmas break, or even just to use them up between exams.

 

[PMedMoe]

You do have 21 20 days of annual leave a year.

Fixed that for you. 

 

[murrdawg]

Fixed that for you. 

Interesting.... I could never remember how many days I was entitled to until my CELE course, where I was told 21 days if less than 5 years in and 26 days over 5 years..... So those numeros were wrong?

 

[PMedMoe]

Interesting.... I could never remember how many days I was entitled to until my CELE course, where I was told 21 days if less than 5 years in and 26 days over 5 years..... So those numeros were wrong?

From the CF Leave Manual:

A member of the Regular Force with less than 5 years of service in the Canadian Forces (including class B and C Reserve service and 1/4 of any Class A Reserve service) is entitled to 20 days annual leave per leave year

• A member of the Regular Force who has completed at 5 years of service in the Canadian Forces (including class B and C Reserve service and 1/4 of any Class A Reserve service) but less than 28 years of service in the Regular Force is entitled to 25 days annual leave per leave year

Who the hell told you 21 and 26?  ???

 

[murrdawg]

A new Captain who got promoted from 2Lt....

 

[Kaveman]

To answer your question about reserve pay, I know when I was at RMC (about a year ago when I graduated), they were talking about eliminating the "reserve carry over" to RMC cadets. I do not know if this has changed.

Just gonna throw in my experience here. I got accepted into RMC as a CT from the Reserves so I'm pretty sure that my situation is not anomalous and would apply here. I was in the P Res since I was 16. I was considered a Pte (3) in the P Res - and paid as such - but when I CT'd over to the regs for RMC what they do is they take the total number of employed days you have in (any time you signed your paysheet) and figure out how many real big-boy years you have. After they did that calculation they knocked me down to the Pte (2) pay scale.

Long story short: Yes your reserve pay scale carries over to RMC, but not quite how you think it would.

 

[yoman]

Just realize how "lucky" you are compared to all the other ROTP students who are not getting all that money. That's not to say that you deserve it or not its just that a lot of people at RMC don't think its justified.

Most RMC students and ROTP Civi U students will receive quite a bit more leave then any other CF member so they should consider themselves lucky. Example: last year I received at least 7 weeks off compared to the normal 4 weeks off any other CF member with less then 5 years in would have.

 

[Wookilar]

Yoman,

Got a bit of a bone to pick with you, and all the other ROTP members that feel putout over the former P Res members getting paid more doing the same job as you.

I got paid $60K a year to go to RMC, I was an OCdt, same as you. I got paid that much due to my time-in and the rank that I held. It is no different for the former P Res members. You going to try and tell me I should have taken a pay cut? That I didn't deserve that amount of money?

It's time for some people to grow up.

They are not "lucky," they earned it. Just like I did.

Wook

 

[Pusser]

Yoman,

Got a bit of a bone to pick with you, and all the other ROTP members that feel putout over the former P Res members getting paid more doing the same job as you.

I got paid $60K a year to go to RMC, I was an OCdt, same as you. I got paid that much due to my time-in and the rank that I held. It is no different for the former P Res members. You going to try and tell me I should have taken a pay cut? That I didn't deserve that amount of money?

It's time for some people to grow up.

They are not "lucky," they earned it. Just like I did.

Wook

I have to admit I'm a bit jealous.  When I made the jump from PRes to ROTP, the policy of the day was to release the member from the PRes one day and then immediately enroll them in the Regular Force the next.  This meant you had unbroken service for time credit on your CD, but little else (the pensionality of Reserve service is unaffected by any break in service).  It effectively killed any vested rights to pay.  In short, I went from Reserve Leading Seaman to Regular Naval Cadet overnight and dropped approximately 30% in pay.  It was disappointing, but I got over it and reaped many rewards far greater than that loss of pay (graduating debt-free from university being only the first one).

 

[yoman]

Yoman,

Got a bit of a bone to pick with you, and all the other ROTP members that feel putout over the former P Res members getting paid more doing the same job as you.

I got paid $60K a year to go to RMC, I was an OCdt, same as you. I got paid that much due to my time-in and the rank that I held. It is no different for the former P Res members. You going to try and tell me I should have taken a pay cut? That I didn't deserve that amount of money?

It's time for some people to grow up.

They are not "lucky," they earned it. Just like I did.

Wook

I think you missed the part where I said that I didn't necessarily think that you didn't deserve it. I take issue with the people who joined the reserves simply to get a pay advantage for when they got to RMC. I'm talking about the people who didn't do any courses and were in the reserves for a vary small amount of time (IE: 3 months for someone I know). That is wrong and I believe something should be done about it. They did nothing to earn it except to show up for a few parade nights before going reg force. Surely even you can agree that that isn't fair?

I'll admit that I am jealous of the former reserve members enjoying roughly triple the salary that I receive. And yes I still do consider them lucky but that doesn't mean that some of them did genouinely deserve it.