Let The Sucking Up Start- Defence Firms Converge on Ottawa

[Armymatters]

Personally for me, I would take the Airbus offer for refurbished C-130H's to replace our E's that need replacement, and when Airbus gets around to certifying and flying the A400M, they replace the H's Airbus refubished for us. The remaining C-130's that aren't being replaced can be replaced with J-model Hercs or more A400M's, depending on how the A400M's perform in CF service. A very heavy-lift airplane like the C-17 or AN-124 does have a very useful role for the CF in quickly moving equipment overseas, and they should most likely be procured (perhaps to replace the remaining H's in CF service after we get the E's gone) if we want to maintain our standing in the world. 4-5 new C-17's are well within our means right now, as the Aussies have purchased 4 for $1.5 billion USD, and that contract includes the following:
    * Up to four C-17 GLOBEMASTER III aircraft
    * Up to 18 Pratt & Whitney F117-PW-100 engines
    * Up to four AN/AAQ-24V(13) Large Aircraft Infrared Countermeasures (LAIRCM) Systems
    * Up to 15 AN/AVS-9 Night Vision Goggles; plus
    * Personnel Life Support equipment, spare and repair parts, supply support, training equipment and support, publications and technical data.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2006/04/australia-to-spend-up-to-15-bn-on-4-c17s-updated/index.php#more

My policy with procurement for any military is that if it ain't up to specifications that we set out or it ain't up the job, it should not be purchased. Get the best we can afford. However realistic this idea is totally up in the air.

 

[ROTP Applicant]

Personally for me, I would take the Airbus offer for refurbished C-130H's to replace our E's that need replacement, and when Airbus gets around to certifying and flying the A400M, they replace the H's Airbus refubished for us. The remaining C-130's that aren't being replaced can be replaced with J-model Hercs or more A400M's, depending on how the A400M's perform in CF service.

That looks like a decent plan; do you have a source for this (I'm curious to read about it some more)? However, realistically speaking, the earliest time frame for getting the A400M would be in the 2014-2016 range, this is due to the fact that the delivery date keeps changing and Canada would obviously not be at the front of the line for receiving the aircraft. Moreover, it is almost guaranteed that in the early life stage of the A400M, there would be a number of issues and bugs that would need to be addressed. Therefore, instead of waiting for the A400M, a safe bet would be to get C-130J's ASAP and C-17's in the near future. I apologize in advance if this is way off-topic.

 

[MarkOttawa]

A source for the refurbished Hercs and A-400Ms deal:
http://www.sfu.ca/casr/bg-airlift-tactical.htm

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Daidalous]

What ever they decide to get they better get it soon.  There are now 2 Herc's fully retired on the tarmac in Trenton just this year.  I don't think we have 5-8 years to replace our aircraft.  I would not be surprised if we see a huge defence spending spree during the budget, in the 8-12 billion range, of course spread out over 4 years.

 

[LordOsborne]

Sigh.. It looks like the science fiction writers at CASR/DND 101 caught another fish on their line.  It seems that anyone can publish a website today and spout ideas as if they were fact.  Russian aircraft will never be a solution for Canada's airlift needs - what guarantee will we have for parts existing in 10-30 years?  At best Russia is a faltering first world nation - we don't need those kind of problems, we have enough of our thanks...

Zoomie, I'm simply suggesting that the option deserves some consideration. I'm no expert on parts, so forgive my question: can't we just buy 30 years' worth of parts in the contract? Russia isn't all that stable a country; that's a given. However, since we have ordered vehicles from South Africa both in the past and recently, I think DND has shown that it is willing to look the other way in some cases. I realise that buying Russian is a huge leap of faith for any western nation to make, so CASR's rosy picture of the situation likely won't ever see the light of day.

one last point i'd like to make... canada already uses the IL-76 and the An-124 regularily - does that not mean it's met our needs?
I'll duck and cover now..

 

[Armymatters]

If Airbus does score this contract, with their two stage proposal, they better deliever on time. I remember what happened when the Italians sent their Hercs to EADS/Airbus for work... that contract was eventually settled with a contractual penalty against EADS, and the Italian government had to recently source additional upgrades/repairs to compensate for what Airbus/EADS did not do under the contract... Perhaps Airbus can just source the airplanes and say, partner with Spar Aerospace/L-3 or Cascade Aerospace for the Herc rebuild for the Canadian industrial offset as a sweetener for the deal, as Airbus can't give any industrial offset to Canada with the A400M.

 

[Armymatters]

Sorry for double posting, but according to this article, if we want C-17's, we better move within 3 months, as Boeing is starting to procure parts for the last C-17's comming off the assembly line. It mentions that Canada is going to make a decision on the C-17 in the 'near-term'. Ordering right now according to Boeing will ensure a good price.
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/04/04/Navigation/190/205791/Time+begins+to+run+out+to+extend+production+of+C-17.html

 

[WannaBeFlyer]

On my routine stop by YOW on the way home (OK I live 2 minutes away), I had a nice treat.  I saw the USAF C-130 and C-17 that were in town for the Boeing dog and pony show parked at the avitat and reception centre. Sorry all I had was the Kodak Easy Share in the beater and I had to cram them down to post them but still a nice peak at the aircrafts.

Man that C-17 looks great with the Maple Leaf in front of it!

 

[MarkOttawa]

Armymatters:

Airbus can't give any industrial offset to Canada with the A400M.

Not quite:
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/business/story.html?id=a0af43ac-ba87-42e8-ac78-d0a20c07cb19

'Airbus woos Quebec partners: Aims to replace Hercules transports; Change in government could lead to review of aircraft purchase program

SHEILA McGOVERN, The Gazette
Published: Friday, January 20, 2006

Aerospace giant Airbus is courting local companies as potential business partners and friends as it pursues a $3-billion contract to replace the Canadian military's aging Hercules aircraft...

...Airbus also has to do some groundwork. Any company that wins the $3-billion deal would be expected to offset that purchase price through doing business with Canadian companies.

Right now, Airbus does about $300,000 of business with such Canadian companies as Bombardier and Alcan. It buys engines from Pratt & Whitney and flight simulators from CAE.

But "$3 billion is a lot of money," Sefzig said, and there is also a $1.6-billion maintenance deal at stake.

So Airbus contacted the Association quebecoise de l'aerospatiale to set up a one-day seminar and reverse trade show, where everybody from information technology companies to machine shops to major aerospace suppliers can find out what Airbus needs and figure out if they can work together...

...Airbus also hopes to be a contender for a $1.8-billion deal to rejuvenate Canada's search and rescue fleet with its CASA 295. The business Airbus does with Canadian companies doesn't have to be tied to a specific plane, but must equal the value of any deal it signs with the government. So it has come courting for partners, which it hopes will also be supportive of it efforts to land the deals in the first place...'

Mark
Ottawa