LGBTQ Stuff (split from other political threads)

[QV]

I don't understand the the whole bathroom/female space issue. Can anyone explain what the actual issue is, other than fear of the unknown? It actually highlights the larger stereotype that if men and women share common spaces, women are going to be violated. The stereotype that we need to protect our wives and daughters decency when they go to the washroom. Why don't we just hide them all away so they are only seen by their immediate families.

I suppose if one believes males and females are indeed equal in every way then you would think there is no problem here. However, I'll posit one thing that is fundamentally different and has a huge impact on almost everything: testosterone levels.

Let the screeching begin.

 

[brihard]

I’m back in university again, and had a class on campus for the first time in a couple years. In one area where I remember there being separate men’s and women’s bathrooms some years ago, they combined the space, lined the whole thing with fully closing stalls (no gap above or below), with central sinks for handwashing. No urinals. Pick a stall and do what you do, just wash your hands afterwards so you’re not a dirty Billy.

FWIW, my dick didn’t fall off using it. Seems like a perfectly suitable option for higher volume public institutional bathrooms.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I’m back in university again, and had a class on campus for the first time in a couple years. In one area where I remember there being separate men’s and women’s bathrooms some years ago, they combined the space, lined the whole thing with fully closing stalls (no gap above or below), with central sinks for handwashing. No urinals. Pick a stall and do what you do, just wash your hands afterwards so you’re not a dirty Billy.

FWIW, my dick didn’t fall off using it. Seems like a perfectly suitable option for higher volume public institutional bathrooms.

It is a perfectly fine solution.

Not all washrooms currently conform to that standard.

 

[QV]

I’m back in university again, and had a class on campus for the first time in a couple years. In one area where I remember there being separate men’s and women’s bathrooms some years ago, they combined the space, lined the whole thing with fully closing stalls (no gap above or below), with central sinks for handwashing. No urinals. Pick a stall and do what you do, just wash your hands afterwards so you’re not a dirty Billy.

FWIW, my dick didn’t fall off using it. Seems like a perfectly suitable option for higher volume public institutional bathrooms.

For new builds this probably saves a ton of money and space.

 

[Remius]

I’m back in university again, and had a class on campus for the first time in a couple years. In one area where I remember there being separate men’s and women’s bathrooms some years ago, they combined the space, lined the whole thing with fully closing stalls (no gap above or below), with central sinks for handwashing. No urinals. Pick a stall and do what you do, just wash your hands afterwards so you’re not a dirty Billy.

FWIW, my dick didn’t fall off using it. Seems like a perfectly suitable option for higher volume public institutional bathrooms.

I’ll add that back in my university days, going out to bars and such, most women didn’t seem to have any issues using the men’s room when the line up was too long at the women’s one.

 

[brihard]

For new builds this probably saves a ton of money and space.

Good point, didn’t think of this.

I still see the value of a piss trough at somewhere like sports stadiums or concert venues. But for anything without hundreds or thousands of dudes needing to piss at once during a short break, that can probably be dispensed with.

 

[captloadie]

Allowing biological men in womens washrooms, because of feelings. I mean if you're past the transition stage of chopping your dick off, maybe some leniency can be granted.

So I ask again, what is the real issue? Are you worried about women's their modesty? Are you concerned about women's safety? What is the issue you think is at the root of all this? Other than we have been conditioned, especially in North America, that there needs to be this divide between sexes.

What your statement says to me is that you think Trans individuals are already some sort of deviants, and therefore can't be trusted to share common spaces with other people lest their urges get the best of them.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I don't understand the the whole bathroom/female space issue. Can anyone explain what the actual issue is, other than fear of the unknown? It actually highlights the larger stereotype that if men and women share common spaces, women are going to be violated. The stereotype that we need to protect our wives and daughters decency when they go to the washroom. Why don't we just hide them all away so they are only seen by their immediate families.

Verified (meaning they really happened) instances of men creeping out women in bathrooms, and worse. Basically, people who favour women-only spaces predicted that men would exploit you-are-what-you-say-you-are to gain access to women in bathrooms, changing rooms, prisons, etc for purposes of sexual gratification (the cost of which is paid by women); the experiment has been run; the predictions have been validated. I am opposed to this. How about you?

 

[Quirky]

So I ask again, what is the real issue? Are you worried about women's their modesty? Are you concerned about women's safety?

If you have no issues with unisex washrooms, meaning your wife or daughter showering next to biological men, then that's your choice.

 

[OldSolduer]

I don't understand the the whole bathroom/female space issue. Can anyone explain what the actual issue is, other than fear of the unknown? It actually highlights the larger stereotype that if men and women share common spaces, women are going to be violated. The stereotype that we need to protect our wives and daughters decency when they go to the washroom. Why don't we just hide them all away so they are only seen by their immediate families.

Perhaps you need to meet the men that want to identify as 14 year old girls that want to compete in their sport and share washrooms and change rooms. If you think that is appropriate I can find a beachfront property in Cheyanne Wyoming for you.

 

[Remius]

Perhaps you need to meet the men that want to identify as 14 year old girls that want to compete in their sport and share washrooms and change rooms. If you think that is appropriate I can find a beachfront property in Cheyanne Wyoming for you.

And these men are prevalent in great numbers?

 

[brihard]

If you have no issues with unisex washrooms, meaning your wife or daughter showering next to biological men, then that's your choice.

Who’s talking about showers? That seems to be a straw man of your own creation. Everyone else here seems to be talking about going to the bathroom to leave some sort of calling card.

 

[captloadie]

See, we have taken the argument away from individuals who identify as trans as a true belief, and continued the fear mongering to protect our wives and daughters from those individuals who are going to use whatever system they can to feed their sickness.

If the PM stood up and said he wanted to ban Catholic Priests from using men's washrooms and changerooms because they will use them to pray on our young boys, we'd be all up in arms about the statement.

Sick fucks are going to cause harm no matter what. Unisex washrooms would actually be safer, as there would be more individuals around to protect all people who use them.

 

[OldSolduer]

And these men are prevalent in great numbers?

One is too many. That’s my opinion.

 

[dimsum]

If you have no issues with unisex washrooms, meaning your wife or daughter showering next to biological men, then that's your choice.

I’ve deployed to places that have unisex washrooms and showers. They were all individual showers and change areas, contained within individual stalls. Imagine a bigger version of toilet stalls.

At no point did I see someone else uncovered. It’s not like the Starship Troopers shower scene.

 

[Brad Sallows]

And these men are prevalent in great numbers?

Doesn't matter. The risk is avoidable; the debate is whether it's an acceptable or unacceptable risk. Truly transgender people are not prevalent in great numbers either. I suppose the harm (negative utility) of not being able to choose is overwhelmingly less than the harm of being sexually assaulted/exploited. Interests of a few women >> interests of a few transgender people.

If it's true that most bathroom users exercise common sense and bathrooms can be constructed to adequately protect privacy, the fact cuts both ways. It's just as safe for men to use men's spaces regardless of their sexual expression preferences, as it is for them to use mixed-gender spaces. But the former manifestly reduces the risk to women. Advantage, from the point of view of harm reduction/elimination: women-only spaces.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

See, we have taken the argument away from individuals who identify as trans as a true belief, and continued the fear mongering to protect our wives and daughters from those individuals who are going to use whatever system they can to feed their sickness.

If the PM stood up and said he wanted to ban Catholic Priests from using men's washrooms and changerooms because they will use them to pray on our young boys, we'd be all up in arms about the statement.

Sick fucks are going to cause harm no matter what. Unisex washrooms would actually be safer, as there would be more individuals around to protect all people who use them.

Your priest comment is a stereotype. They don't just prey on choirboys. They don't discriminate based on sex.

I have used single use female bathrooms at gas stations, etc, when the men's was occupied. I wouldn't use a female washroom at a highway service centre. I would not want to make anyone uncomfortable.

Other than that, being male, the world is my urinal.

 

[Brad Sallows]

See, we have taken the argument away from individuals who identify as trans as a true belief, and continued the fear mongering to protect our wives and daughters from those individuals who are going to use whatever system they can to feed their sickness.

It's not just about "sick f*cks" in women's spaces. It's also about women being physically injured by men, and being uncompetitive against even men who are mediocre in competition against men.

There were reasons sports were segregated between men and women. People who have managed to forget that are stupid to the bone.

 

[dimsum]

Your priest comment is a stereotype. They don't just prey on choirboys. They don't discriminate based on sex.

Ok - so since some homosexual women may also be predatory against other women, should they be banned from women’s washrooms? If so, where do they go if not the men’s ones?

 

[dimsum]

It's not just about "sick f*cks" in women's spaces. It's also about women being physically injured by men, and being uncompetitive against even men who are mediocre in competition against men.

There were reasons sports were segregated between men and women. People who have managed to forget that are stupid to the bone.

This discussion has been split off into several not-really-related ones.