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Manitoba bus stabbing/ beheading

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080803/beheading_suspect_080803?s_name=&no_ads=
Vince Weiguang Li, 40, who immigrated to Canada from China in 2004, ......

Lets see.. minimum 3 years residency after becoming a permanent resident to apply for citizenship
http://www.cic.gc.ca/English/resources/publications/howto-e.asp
You must have lived in Canada for at least three years (1,095 days) out of the four years immediately before you apply for citizenship.


http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/newcomers/about-pr.asp
What permanent residents cannot do

As a permanent resident, you and your dependants cannot:

    * Vote or run for political office
    * Hold certain jobs that have a high-level security clearance requirement
    * Remain in Canada if you are convicted of a serious criminal offence and have been told to leave the country.

Has anyone seen any news items that mentioned his citizenship status ?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080803/beheading_suspect_080803?s_name=&no_ads=
The church's congregation has offered to support Li's wife, who Castor said is in shock and afraid for her future in Canada.

Sounds like they only have residency status when I read that.

 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Yea, OK.

http://www.crimefilenews.com/2006/03/gun-vs-knife.html

http://www.policeone.com/news_internal.asp?view=113907

The video on the first link didn't work.  

RE: the Pizzaria?  Thats a true story.  A local dealer,  and a friend of mine who hates dealers,  had a long standing feud and squared off one night.  Dealer boy pulled a Bowie on him;  my friend was a student *beyond 1st Dan* in chito-ryu, student of BJJ and things of that nature, disarmed him, and rather impressively I'll add.  It wasn't me, so I'm not making it up to make myself look good, I just happened to be there.
 
Ðetermination said:
Its no doubt this piece of @#$! should be dead in any horrific way people can think of and he'd deserve it, but its done..this is getting pretty heated..theres nothing any of us can do about it so why are you at each others throats...?

Debating our opinions is all this is, Determination.  We all have pretty thick skins and the expected inability to let someone else's opinion influence and change ours without SOME fireworks.  8)
 
MedTechStudent said:
Part of me thinks that his lawyer is going to go for the insanity plea and get him moved to a mental facility.  I mean what he did was defiantly psychotic but that does not mean he is "insane".  What do you think the odds of this defense being used are?

Now I am not trained in the law in any way, but in my opinion I think that it's close to a 100% chance that he enters an insanity plea.  People stab each other all the time, the reason that this particular case is getting so much media coverage is due to the disturbing events that happened to the victim postmortem.  Someone in their right state of mind does not intentionally murder an innocent person, much less remove their head.  Whether the suspect in this case qualifies for a judgement not guilty by reason of insanity is for the courts to decide.
 
While it might be comforting to think that there will be a Todd Beamer on every bus, train, aircraft or other public conveyance you happen to be on, the fact is most people are not trained or mentally prepared/conditioned to take action in a situation like that. Even if there was a would be rescuer in the crowd, I suspect subduing the attacker would have been insanely difficult as the good Samaritan tried to grapple with the knife wielder in a narrow aisle possibly filled with paniced people trying to escape....and there would possibly be two or more victims today.

The biggest danger is people trying to hijack this event to impose more control and regulation against ordinary citizens

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/08/03/the-post-editorial-board-on-the-greyhound-murder-the-government-s-best-policy-response-is-to-do-nothing.aspx

The Post editorial board on the Greyhound murder: The government's best policy response is to ... do nothing
Posted: August 03, 2008, 5:32 PM by Jonathan Kay
Editorial board

Notwithstanding one weird and horrifying murder aboard a prairie Greyhound bus last week, this editorial board refuses to be part of the great chain of hysteria that links hyperventilating news consumers, fearmongering TV producers and pandering politicians. Here is our suggestion for what ought to be done to upgrade the security of bus transportation after the knife killing of Tim McLean by a fellow Greyhound bus passenger: nothing. Leave the system alone. Mr. McLean could have been murdered equally easily by a random psychopath in a movie theatre or a classroom or a wine bar or a shopping mall - or on his front lawn, for that matter. Unless all of those venues, too, are to be included in the new post-Portage la Prairie security crackdown, singling out buses makes no sense.

The ranks of those who aren't capable of seeing this evidently include the opposition parties in the House of Commons. NDP MP Judy Wasylycia-Leis, for instance, called the unprovoked slaying "a wake-up call to the issue of security on mass transit."

"This incident sounds like a rare incident," she added. (The qualifier "sounds like" suggests the honourable member will have had to check with her office to get the actual annualized rate of bus-board decapitation homicides.) "But," she noted, "it raises a lot of questions about the broader issue and makes you realize there are no checks in place on buses."

Politicians love occasions that "raise questions" they don't have to answer, like "Just what sort of public space should people be able to enter without 'checks'? And is the New Democratic Party openly in favour of a police state now, or just tacitly?"

Liberal public safety critic Ujjal Dosanjh noted the obvious by saying "It's difficult to foresee armed guards on buses." He then added, however: "But the security experts from across the country have to put their heads together."

Unfortunately, the West's legitimate security experts are working full-time these days trying to eliminate expensive forms of dimwit "security theatre" that already exist in our transport system - a time-consuming kabuki that plays out, for instance, every time we take off our shoes or are forced to surrender our toothpaste before boarding a flight. Most of them would be happy just to have a short breather from moral panics.

The irony is that both Mr. Dosanjh and Wasylycia-Leis both consider themselves political progressives - yet the security concepts they are vaguely musing about would significantly raise the cost of intercity transport for millions of Canadians who can't afford a car. Then again, what do they know about the bus industry? As denizen of Air Canada's Maple Leaf lounges, with generous Ottawa-funded travel allowances, these MPs probably haven't seen the inside of a Greyhound in decades.

In fact, the horrified witnesses whom the national media were chasing around for interviews last week come from a demographic - working class, verging on downright poor, and living outside major metropolitan centers served by air and rail - that is more or less invisible to most politicians and large corporations. In this regard, Greyhound is a notable exception. We defy any of the gum-flappers trying to bully the company into building and staffing 24-hour inspection stations to name, or display any knowledge whatsoever of, the 80 or more potential stops that exist on various Edmonton-to-Winnipeg routes. What know you, O self-proclaimed experts, of Innisfree, Sintaluta, and Virden? Many of the pickup locations are gas stations, post offices, convenience stores, and the like. Quite a few are literally just junctions with side roads.

It would be characteristic of our modern sensibility if we were to react to one bizarre death by hiring dozens of "safety" people to loiter on highway shoulders to check the bags of bus passengers. Of course, as an alternative, Greyhound could just go ahead and eliminate most rural stops. (The people who'd miss them don't vote Liberal or NDP anyway.) But did we mention that even in the cities, riders who intend to continue their journey are constantly getting on and off the bus to have a cigarette or buy a sandwich? We can't have that either, surely. Some wackjob might have a knife stashed behind a toilet in Foam Lake.

We propose a fundamental principle to be observed at the outset of this debate: Let's not try to protect ourselves from crazy people by trying to out-crazy them. (How much happier the world would be now if a few more voices had said so after 9/11.) As a corollary, anyone who wishes for his opinion to be heard on this subject should take meticulous care that that opinion does not immediately reveal a complete ignorance of how long-range bus travel works.
 
A classic example here in Winnipeg is with the drowning of a couple of people at the height of the beach/swim season, there's a hue and cry by the social engineers to not allow people to swim in any area unless it is supervised.......twits!!

edited to add:

Also....the Natives want all kinds of investigations because the other day the police shot an Indian who was threatening them with a knife and wouldn't drop it....
 
Canada bus beheading suspect says 'please kill me' 1 hour, 56 minutes ago



PORTAGE LA PRAIRIE, Manitoba - A man accused of beheading and cannibalizing another passenger on a Greyhound bus in Canada pleaded Tuesday in court for someone to "please kill me," and was ordered to undergo a psychiatric evaluation.

Prosecutor Joyce Dalmyn, who argued for the evaluation, revealed new details about the attack Wednesday night. She said Vince Weiguang Li had a plastic bag containing his victim's ear, nose and part of a mouth in his pocket when officers arrested him. The only response officers received from him was: "'I have to stay on the bus forever,'" Dalmyn said.

Li, who immigrated to Canada from China in 2004, is charged with second-degree murder in the slaying of 22-year-old carnival worker Tim McLean — an attack which witnesses aboard the bus said appeared to be unprovoked. He has yet to enter a plea.

Li was scheduled to appear Tuesday to determine whether he should undergo psychiatric testing, but the judge in Portage La Prairie adjourned the hearing for a short recess to allow a legal aid attorney to confer with him.

Since his arrest, Li has declined to speak to prosecutors and his court-appointed attorney.

When asked again by the judge after the recess if he wanted a lawyer, Li shook his head and then quietly said "please kill me."

Li's remark was heard by reporters and confirmed by court clerks, but was not acknowledged by the judge. He is due back in court Sept. 8.

Thirty-seven passengers were aboard the Greyhound from Edmonton, Alberta, to Winnipeg, Manitoba, as it traveled at night along a desolate stretch of the TransCanada Highway about 12 miles from Portage La Prairie. Some were napping and others watching the movie "The Legend of Zorro" on bus television screens when Li attacked McLean, allegedly stabbing him dozens of times.

As horrified passengers fled the bus, Li severed McLean's head, displaying it to some of the passengers outside the bus, witnesses said. He then began hacking at the body.

A police officer at the scene reported seeing the attacker hacking off pieces of the victim's body and eating them, according to a police tape leaked on the Internet.

A church pastor, Tom Castor, who helped hire Li soon after he immigrated in 2004 with his wife, Anna, said the man never showed any sign of anger or emotional problems when he worked there as a custodian. Church officials said they vetted Li by contacting references listed on his application and running a criminal record check.

More than 105,000 people have joined an online memorial group for McLean.
 
Of course this was a stressful and scary time for many of the passengers, I saw one guy inviewed on a tv station who was on the bus ( saw the clip on liveleak) say he was ex army or something to that nature. Knife or not it would only take 2 to 3 people to secure the arms of the suspect and hold them. I think people should have tried to help , Would it have saved to young guy(who knows?) That being said it's about time that legal concealed carry is allowed for handguns, In the Us persons must under go a psych test and a concealed carry course before being issue a permit. There is no reason why we should not be able to do the same. To protect yourself your family and others around you from persons out to cause you bodily harm.
 
This whole thing made me feel sick.  As far as people walking around with handguns, I'm not sure if I like the idea of that...  I could definitely see the amount of accidental deaths making a jump, concealed carry course or no.  Besides, I'm not sure what kind of a shot someone would have been able to make on a moving (and probably by that point violently swerving/braking) bus crowded with people.  As previously mentioned, by the time people turned around the attacker had probably had time to get in 3 or 4 stabs at leisure..
 
On the CTV news just now, they mentioned that Greyhound is scrapping an advertising campaign they had just started.

It read

There is a reason why you have never heard of BUS RAGE
 
AirCanuck said:
just the timing of that campaign

Do you honestly think that they saw this incident comming ?

They had a campaign set up......they pulled it after the incident. You cxant blame the company for something they had done BEFORE the incident.
 
no, no that's not what I meant....  I just meant that it was quite a coincidence, that's all.
 
Greyhound pulls 'bus rage' ads
Last Updated: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 | 11:48 AM ET CBC News
Article Link

Greyhound Canada is removing all ads that were part of a campaign related to "bus rage" in the wake of last week's horrific attack against a Greyhound passenger travelling from Edmonton to Winnipeg.

The campaign featured the slogan, "There's a reason you've never heard of bus rage."

Greyhound spokesperson Abby Wambaugh said Tuesday, "Greyhound knows how important it is to get it removed and is doing everything possible."

The slogan has appeared in print and on billboards across the country. But following the attack, the company notified every vendor and asked them to cease using it.

Tim McLean, 22, was repeatedly stabbed and then beheaded by another passenger aboard a Greyhound bus travelling through Manitoba on July 30. Witnesses said the attack was unprovoked.

Wambaugh said print inserts are no longer running, but she doesn't know exactly when outdoor signs — placed in areas where there is heavy commuter traffic — will come down. One billboard has already been taken down in Western Canada, but there is still one remaining in Toronto, which she said will be coming down soon.

Wambaugh said the majority of the ads should have been taken down before the attack because the campaign had ended.
More on link
 
GAP said:
On the CTV news just now, they mentioned that Greyhound is scrapping an advertising campaign they had just started.

It read

There is a reason why you have never heard of BUS RAGE


Probably so, that's most likely if you don't live in a City with the most discourteous Bus Drivers and Public Transport Employees. There it takes on a whole new meaning.

I think we all know what Greyhound was referring to in their catch phrase, who could possibly perdict that Tragic incident.

Cheers.

 
boot12 said:
If we are going to spend time discussing "what ifs", then we must also state the other possible outcomes of such a situation.  Had there been someone aboard the bus who was armed and tried to take him out surrounded by lots of panicking people in an extremely cramped space such as a greyhound bus, there would been a very good chance of the poor victim still dying, except he would joined in the morgue by a couple of innocent people on board who were trying to escape with their lives.


I've read through five pages so far, which have been informative, suggestive and reasonably off the cuff, which I refrained from replying to, just for those exact reasons.

But presuming the armed person you are suggesting is a off duty Police Office (they should be the only one legally armed). Who is trained never to fire through a dense crowd of people.

And that the fleeing persons would be heading in the opposite direction from the assailant and the Police Officer towards him would eventually have a clear shot.

Considering the nature of the dire occurrence his immediate action would have been firring on the Assailant, to remove the threat to the immediate public and/or saving the victim from further assault, perhaps his life.

Even if it was a citizen carrying a concealed firearm and attempting to come to the defense of the victim, the scenario would have played out quite the same.

You ask why the RCMP did,nt fire on Li, there was no immediate threat to the public or them selves. If he had suddenly come charging out of the Bus, screaming great obscenities, you can bet we wouldn't be spending all this money for a trial.

Cheers.
 
FastEddy said:



You ask why the RCMP did,nt fire on Li, there was no immediate threat to the public or them selves. If he had suddenly come charging out of the Bus, screaming great obscenities, you can bet we wouldn't be spending all this money for a trial.

Except for a headless body...
 
Eye In The Sky said:
Except for a headless body...

I think Eddy was right.  IMHO the headless body didn't mean he was a direct threat to anyone else - as said, had he rushed the police brandishing a weapon I'm sure he'd be in the ground, but he didn't, so he's not. I mean the guy was clearly dangerous, but not representing a DIRECT threat at that moment.
 
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