Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels (MCDVs)

[GR66]

If the Kingston's still have that much life in them and serve useful peacetime roles then who says we need to get rid of them when we get whatever replaces them? Tie them up and use them when appropriate and use the Rivers/AOPS/Kingston-replacements when appropriate. Nothing says we have to get rid of what we can't fully man at a given time.

15 x CSC's
12 x Kingston-replacement Corvettes
6 x AOPS
12 x MCDV's
12 x Subs

Those are the ships you have available. They are the tools in the shed. Put to sea the ones you need at the time with the personnel you have available. It's like deploying Infantry in a LAV, TAPV, BvS10, G-Wagon, CH-147 or RHIB depending on the situation.

Of course we should strive to increase our available personnel to be able to equip as much of the fleet as possible, but that can be worked on over time.

Why are we as a military/government/country so damned closed minded in our thinking?

 

[Kirkhill]

I stand to be corrected but I don't think we do much mine sweeping anymore. And I think most of the gear is gone.



I can see the case for keeping the MCDVs for inland training, say on the great lakes.

How about a couple on The Bay?

 

[Furniture]

They won't be dropped. They are never dropped. Probably because some MP wants them there. Glace Bay had some issues that needed to be dealt with. So the RCN is sending HDW on the Great Lakes Deployment instead (Mid Oct).

Is that an appropriate use of HDW right now? Is that an appropriate cost especially after they came and did the same thing last year? One could argue no its not, which is why the MCDV's were slated to come in the first place.

So if it was appropriate to use HDW last year, why is it inappropriate now? Also, WIL was just in Montreal on the same tour the Glace Bay was too broken to do, so there was already an AOPV on the job.

What you fail to realize is the main effort of the RCN is not fighting the next war (though that is a line of effort).

The RCN enforces sovereignty by being ready to fight the next war. If we just need to wave a flag, we have the CCG, DFO, RCMP, and Canada Post for that.

Civilians don't know a warship from a hole in the ground and all the tours I saw they were either impressed or indifferent. We can have multiple classes of ship and no you do not need the same resources at all, cheap to maintain and operate as the class doesn't take away a lot from FMF as they are maintained via ISSC.

Any civilian likely to join the CAF via a recruiting visit knows enough. It's like saying a LUVW is the same as a LEO 2 for recruiting... People will usually be polite, but that doesn't mean they are impressed or unaware. That's not a knock against the MCDVs or LUVW, just a reality that fighting kit is always cooler than support kit.

If the Kingston's still have that much life in them and serve useful peacetime roles then who says we need to get rid of them when we get whatever replaces them?

They could have more life left in them, if we invest a lot of money in them to keep them running. That means less money for the main effort, keeping the CPFs afloat and ready to fight if needed.

In an ideal world the MCDVs would be handed down to a storage/training depot and kept in case of emergency, but we can't afford that and don't have the people to do it either.

 

[Underway]

Netherlands firms up plans for multifunction support vessels - Naval News

Some ideas for MCDV replacement, though these seem more like a task group ordinance augmentation task.

 

[Furniture]

Netherlands firms up plans for multifunction support vessels - Naval News

Some ideas for MCDV replacement, though these seem more like a task group ordinance augmentation task.

A flatbed that can take containerized weapons can take containers for other systems as well.

I'd rather us buy 6 of those to augment the APOVs and RCDs than keep the MCDVs around.

 

[Underway]

A flatbed that can take containerized weapons can take containers for other systems as well.

I'd rather us buy 6 of those to augment the APOVs and RCDs than keep the MCDVs around.

I love those things already. If they can also make a lot of noise and a big wake then trail behind the destroyer when torps are inbound I'm sure the destroyer would appreciate it. Also lead through for mined areas.

 

[KevinB]

I suspect that the CRCN knows how much the GoC is interested in the Military -- I suspect that the CCA and CRCAF (and their staff) are also tuned to that -- so any removal of hulls, airframes, tanks etc ends up be a net negative to the next replacement.

Once you show you can do X for a period of time (even a short period of time) the GoC tends to want to fund that minimum. If the RCN shows that it can function without - well it is game over.

I would assume that is why none of the CPF's have been paid off yet.

The RCN is in trouble as nearly all of their hulls are at EoL, and some had already been paid off before their replacements.
The AOPS were basically a bonus, but they don't replace the 4 280's, and the 2 Protecteur class, that gap has been an issue for a decade.

So you need 10-15 OPV to simply replace the MCDV role and stop the AOPS and Surface Combatants from being flogged to an early death. That is simply the logistics fact -- to me ideally it would be capable of some combatant tasks as well.

The Sub program is it's own thing (and honestly I believe to be a waste for Canada to buy into a non Nuke boat due to range/speed and under ice requirements due to Canada's geography) as a Sub isn't a patrol vessel - as it isn't going to be surfacing for boardings etc.

Like @Edward Campbell mentions above - there is a lot of logic behind a 30 combatant craft RCN (50:50 Destroyer/Frigate and Minor) with additional non combatant craft.

 

[Edward Campbell]

As Eliza Dolittle sang, "words, words words .."

If anyone has some useful ideas or just an informed opinion then tell the putative next Prime Minister of Canada, Pierre Poilievre, AND the team that hopes to elect a Conservative MP in your riding.

Otherwise, as she sang, "is that all you blighters can do?"