- Reaction score
- 25
- Points
- 430
cavalryman said:
Are they not also the demographic whose support changes with the winds/tides?
Michael Coren: "Caring for Karine"
- Thread starter mariomike
- Start date
Are they not also the demographic whose support changes with the winds/tides?
- Reaction score
- 1,438
- Points
- 1,260
Letters on subject to Sun editor link:
http://www.torontosun.com/comment/letters/2009/04/25/9240686-sun.html
'You're a dinosaur'
Last week's Afghanistan column touched a nerve, but I am right
By MICHAEL COREN, TORONTO SUN
Last Updated: 25th April 2009, 4:28am
A journalist always knows when a column has been a success. Partly it's the hundreds of e-mails of support, but equally it's the almost as numerous letters that try, in appalling English, to insult you.
This is meat and drink to those who think and write outside of the comfort zone of standard Canadian media.
Last week I said that an intensely inexperienced 21-year-woman should not have had to give her life in the pointless war in Afghanistan. The responses were fascinating.
Most of the critical ones seemed obsessed with the fact that the poor girl indeed should have been able to die. A rather perverse way to support her and her family.
The vast majority of these were the usual nonsense. "Everyone is equal," "you're a dinosaur," "I hate you." Then all sorts of delightful and failed attempts to spell the word "misogynist."
OK, let's go a step further. Anyone who claims the war in Afghanistan is about gender equality is either supremely naive or extraordinarily dishonest. We said hardly a word about women's rights in that country until the United States was attacked on 9/11. So, apparently, women were treated well before the Twin Towers outrage but badly afterwards.
More than this, while the Soviet Union was a repugnant regime, the Afghan government begged for Russian help when it was attacked by the Taliban and one of the policies Moscow advocated was women's rights.
ARMING THE MADMEN
The response of the West, including Canada, was to arm and support the very Islamic madmen we are now fighting because, ostensibly, they treat women so badly.
We sacrifice our soldiers, including young women who ought not to be there in the first place, to the guns of the very people we said were the good guys when they were fighting our enemies at the time. Then we pretend this is a noble war and that it's all about freedom, gender and social justice.
In this war we and our allies sometimes bomb innocent people and destroy villages where mothers and children live. But it's all in the name of some great struggle to make sure that young women can waste their lives for a soon-to-be-reversed policy decision -- one that obliges us to fight the Taliban while simultaneously giving special trade favours to regimes that have exactly the same human rights records.
Something similar has happened in Iraq, where untold suffering has been caused by western aggression because of the supposed need to remove a tyrant who was our friend for years and who, by the way, was a secular leader who actually supported female equality. In that war the western powers allied themselves with various states, such as Saudi Arabia, that treat women appallingly.
Most of this will be far too deep and challenging for the cliche-laden blowhards who want me to be, according to their e-mails, fired, killed or castrated. They seem to glory in innocent death and hypocritical foreign policy and seem to care not a bit for smashed children if they are brown, Muslim and poor.
It's all like some gigantic television reality show where foolish people live vicariously through the lives of others and fail to realize that behind the curtain of banality is a genuinely real world that demands more than facile and smug responses.
So sad yet so predictable.
MICHAEL.COREN@SUNMEDIA.CA
http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/michael_coren/2009/04/25/9240701-sun.html
http://www.torontosun.com/comment/letters/2009/04/25/9240686-sun.html
'You're a dinosaur'
Last week's Afghanistan column touched a nerve, but I am right
By MICHAEL COREN, TORONTO SUN
Last Updated: 25th April 2009, 4:28am
A journalist always knows when a column has been a success. Partly it's the hundreds of e-mails of support, but equally it's the almost as numerous letters that try, in appalling English, to insult you.
This is meat and drink to those who think and write outside of the comfort zone of standard Canadian media.
Last week I said that an intensely inexperienced 21-year-woman should not have had to give her life in the pointless war in Afghanistan. The responses were fascinating.
Most of the critical ones seemed obsessed with the fact that the poor girl indeed should have been able to die. A rather perverse way to support her and her family.
The vast majority of these were the usual nonsense. "Everyone is equal," "you're a dinosaur," "I hate you." Then all sorts of delightful and failed attempts to spell the word "misogynist."
OK, let's go a step further. Anyone who claims the war in Afghanistan is about gender equality is either supremely naive or extraordinarily dishonest. We said hardly a word about women's rights in that country until the United States was attacked on 9/11. So, apparently, women were treated well before the Twin Towers outrage but badly afterwards.
More than this, while the Soviet Union was a repugnant regime, the Afghan government begged for Russian help when it was attacked by the Taliban and one of the policies Moscow advocated was women's rights.
ARMING THE MADMEN
The response of the West, including Canada, was to arm and support the very Islamic madmen we are now fighting because, ostensibly, they treat women so badly.
We sacrifice our soldiers, including young women who ought not to be there in the first place, to the guns of the very people we said were the good guys when they were fighting our enemies at the time. Then we pretend this is a noble war and that it's all about freedom, gender and social justice.
In this war we and our allies sometimes bomb innocent people and destroy villages where mothers and children live. But it's all in the name of some great struggle to make sure that young women can waste their lives for a soon-to-be-reversed policy decision -- one that obliges us to fight the Taliban while simultaneously giving special trade favours to regimes that have exactly the same human rights records.
Something similar has happened in Iraq, where untold suffering has been caused by western aggression because of the supposed need to remove a tyrant who was our friend for years and who, by the way, was a secular leader who actually supported female equality. In that war the western powers allied themselves with various states, such as Saudi Arabia, that treat women appallingly.
Most of this will be far too deep and challenging for the cliche-laden blowhards who want me to be, according to their e-mails, fired, killed or castrated. They seem to glory in innocent death and hypocritical foreign policy and seem to care not a bit for smashed children if they are brown, Muslim and poor.
It's all like some gigantic television reality show where foolish people live vicariously through the lives of others and fail to realize that behind the curtain of banality is a genuinely real world that demands more than facile and smug responses.
So sad yet so predictable.
MICHAEL.COREN@SUNMEDIA.CA
http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/michael_coren/2009/04/25/9240701-sun.html
- Reaction score
- 3
- Points
- 430
Yep, he's right alright. Right out of 'er.
"Everyone is equal" is nonsense? I can't think of a better way for him to illustrate that he is a dinosaur.
I didn't respond to the column before, but I sure as hell will now. In halting English, and to his editor.
"Everyone is equal" is nonsense? I can't think of a better way for him to illustrate that he is a dinosaur.
I didn't respond to the column before, but I sure as hell will now. In halting English, and to his editor.
- Reaction score
- 2,671
- Points
- 940
mariomike said:
Coren is correct in his final paragraphs, but he's mistaken who's who; his own analysis was apparently "far too deep and challenging for the cliche-laden blowhards"....which he has shown himself to be.
It should be obvious that Tpr Blais was actually part of that "real world," whereas Coren provides absolutely nothing but "facile and smug responses."
Such media response is indeed, "so sad yet so predictable."
- Reaction score
- 5,138
- Points
- 1,060
He's said nothing to refute the coherent and intelligent responses to his initial attack. He's only assailed the writing challenged few who use ad hominem attacks, poor spelling and grammar. Same as we do here.
He has a following now, friend or enemy, it matters not. He's selling pulp and paper for his bosses. His convictions are suspect and secondary at this point.
He'll keep poking this issue and his detractors in the eye with a stick until it loses steam. Why? Because he's a journalist. One that 'creates' news instead of going out and getting it the old fashioned way.
He had a personal invite to come here and debate, however that would have taken guts, conviction and intelligence. He has none of those qualities, judging by his latest response.
With his latest diatribe, containing just enough to keep his series in the same geographical portion of the planet, he's shown his true colours and deserves no more of my time.
He has a following now, friend or enemy, it matters not. He's selling pulp and paper for his bosses. His convictions are suspect and secondary at this point.
He'll keep poking this issue and his detractors in the eye with a stick until it loses steam. Why? Because he's a journalist. One that 'creates' news instead of going out and getting it the old fashioned way.
He had a personal invite to come here and debate, however that would have taken guts, conviction and intelligence. He has none of those qualities, judging by his latest response.
With his latest diatribe, containing just enough to keep his series in the same geographical portion of the planet, he's shown his true colours and deserves no more of my time.
- Reaction score
- 25
- Points
- 430
Hey! It is idiots like us who respond to his nonsense who are keeping him and his paper in business. If no one responded, positively or negatively, it would be like: if a tree fell in the forest and no one was there........"Who would really care?" He'd be out on the street begging.
- Reaction score
- 25
- Points
- 430
ArmyVern said:Not if they respond by the posted email addy instead of linking to their site or buying the paper.
It doesn't matter. It just fuels his ego and provides more for him to pontificate about.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
mariomike said:
Thou Liest, Mr. Coren!
Compare the two entries and witness how the author tries to dig his way out of his first inflammatory pejorative against Trooper Blais by "cleaning up" his language--PET-style.
He's lost credibility in this family. :yellow:
- Reaction score
- 5,881
- Points
- 1,360
Something similar has happened in Iraq, where untold suffering has been caused by western aggression because of the supposed need to remove a tyrant who was our friend for years and who, by the way, was a secular leader who actually supported female equality.
Yea, as long as they would subject themselves to the whims of his family when so ordered......yup, they all had the right to be equally tortured.
Not to mention so called "journalists" like Mr. Coren are so pathetically content in their overstuffed office chairs they forget that most of the world doesn't have a free press, so for him to say all of a sudden "untold suffering" started somewhere is the ultimate in lazy journalism......................oh, it happened Sunshine, you just didn't know, or care, because it wasn't spoon-fed to you on your office computer.
Yea, as long as they would subject themselves to the whims of his family when so ordered......yup, they all had the right to be equally tortured.
Not to mention so called "journalists" like Mr. Coren are so pathetically content in their overstuffed office chairs they forget that most of the world doesn't have a free press, so for him to say all of a sudden "untold suffering" started somewhere is the ultimate in lazy journalism......................oh, it happened Sunshine, you just didn't know, or care, because it wasn't spoon-fed to you on your office computer.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
leroi, you brought up the exact point I was thinking.
and for some reason I have a very large urge to go there and kick him in the junk.. although that would probably give him too much satisfaction as he is apparently proud at the negative response the previous article received
and for some reason I have a very large urge to go there and kick him in the junk.. although that would probably give him too much satisfaction as he is apparently proud at the negative response the previous article received
- Reaction score
- 5
- Points
- 430
mariomike said:
Yup, he is.
- Reaction score
- 5,138
- Points
- 1,060
JBoyd said:
That would be, of course, if he has any.
Given his armchair quarterbacking and grasp of reality, of all things martial, I would tend to assume, he only has a mangina (with the requisite sand).
I doubt he'd know what to do with it, if he found a real man's junk in his pants.
This is one of those 'ad hominem' attacks I spoke about. ;D It's just too hard to resist such an open door.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
Its a bit late, as many have already made the same points, but since I took the time to craft the response earlier today I figured I might as well post it...
"But I am right" - right off the bat, this is not a retraction or an apology, it is a follow-up to the first article. He also seems to be proudly wearing the title of 'dinosaur'. As already pointed out, a good news writer/editor knows how to milk a hot topic regardless of their viewpoint...
So you're either a supporter, or insulting AND inarticulate (non-supporter). Apparently no messages were received from articulate yet polite non-supporters...
No you did not. You called her a girl, and accused her of being a dress-up soldier, ignoring the fact that she had qualifications and credentials the same as every other young soldier sent over to that country.
This statement makes it apparent that its okay for women to risk their life or get killed while working for humanitarian orgs, or get raped and killed while working for a church/missionary team in some African country, or travel to dangerous areas and get kidnapped as a news reporter, even get mugged and injured while as a tourist in some foreign country, but its a shame for her to have gone to Afghanistan to fight for something she believed in. According to Coren's standards, once you are in the military you are not allowed to act in support of your beliefs, especially if youre a girl dressed up as a soldier.
He also seems to take delight in using words with negative impact that completely misinterpret the point of his many insulting and inarticulate respondants. I sincerely doubt they are all 'obsessed', and although he (again!) refers to her as a 'poor girl', Im sure most of those respondantrs refered to her a grown woman able to make her own choices.
He completely misses the point. Isnt being a police officer dangerous as well? Well, lets stop women from doing that job. What about firefighting? Isnt this dangerous? Are female firefighters also to be regarded as 'dress-up firefighters' with no experience? How about paramedics? I've met plenty who have encountered dangerous situations, and many have had their lifes at risk just dealing with everyday cranks, addicts, psychos and emotionally disturbed patients.
Does he describe these dangers as well? Does he suggest that women should be barred from these dangerous jobs? No, the point is that he is against the war, and if he can score points by using a woman's death as his tool, apparently he's pretty happy about it.
The vast majority of these were the usual nonsense. "Everyone is equal,"... - the statement speaks for itself. Did I mention he was proud of being a dinosaur already?
Apparently some female rights activitists were very upset. Its a bit disapointing that he deliberately takes their points out of context (see above - women have the right to choose an occupation where their lives might be at risk). Not only that, but he refers to some alternate universe where Canada was allies with Islamic militants, that Canada armed them when they were fighting the Russians, and at some point in the past we called them 'the Good Guys'.
He continues rambling on about the damage in the country. I wont argue with the points there, war is a nasty business and many innocent lives are lost... but what's that got to do with him refering to a female soldier as a girl playing dressup? Focus, Coren, focus!!
Oh, and then the rant about Iraq - c'mon Mikey, remember what the complaints were about. Im pretty sure nobody complained to you about Iraq. Quit scoring the cheap points and come back to the game for the big home run...
Which is to complain about innocent death (a good point) and a hypocritical foreign policy (also a good point), but neither of these has to do with calling a girl a dress up soldier for doing something she believed in.
I just read one...
Unfortunately, it was...
mariomike said:
"But I am right" - right off the bat, this is not a retraction or an apology, it is a follow-up to the first article. He also seems to be proudly wearing the title of 'dinosaur'. As already pointed out, a good news writer/editor knows how to milk a hot topic regardless of their viewpoint...
mariomike said:
So you're either a supporter, or insulting AND inarticulate (non-supporter). Apparently no messages were received from articulate yet polite non-supporters...
mariomike said:
No you did not. You called her a girl, and accused her of being a dress-up soldier, ignoring the fact that she had qualifications and credentials the same as every other young soldier sent over to that country.
This statement makes it apparent that its okay for women to risk their life or get killed while working for humanitarian orgs, or get raped and killed while working for a church/missionary team in some African country, or travel to dangerous areas and get kidnapped as a news reporter, even get mugged and injured while as a tourist in some foreign country, but its a shame for her to have gone to Afghanistan to fight for something she believed in. According to Coren's standards, once you are in the military you are not allowed to act in support of your beliefs, especially if youre a girl dressed up as a soldier.
mariomike said:
He also seems to take delight in using words with negative impact that completely misinterpret the point of his many insulting and inarticulate respondants. I sincerely doubt they are all 'obsessed', and although he (again!) refers to her as a 'poor girl', Im sure most of those respondantrs refered to her a grown woman able to make her own choices.
He completely misses the point. Isnt being a police officer dangerous as well? Well, lets stop women from doing that job. What about firefighting? Isnt this dangerous? Are female firefighters also to be regarded as 'dress-up firefighters' with no experience? How about paramedics? I've met plenty who have encountered dangerous situations, and many have had their lifes at risk just dealing with everyday cranks, addicts, psychos and emotionally disturbed patients.
Does he describe these dangers as well? Does he suggest that women should be barred from these dangerous jobs? No, the point is that he is against the war, and if he can score points by using a woman's death as his tool, apparently he's pretty happy about it.
mariomike said:
The vast majority of these were the usual nonsense. "Everyone is equal,"... - the statement speaks for itself. Did I mention he was proud of being a dinosaur already?
mariomike said:
Apparently some female rights activitists were very upset. Its a bit disapointing that he deliberately takes their points out of context (see above - women have the right to choose an occupation where their lives might be at risk). Not only that, but he refers to some alternate universe where Canada was allies with Islamic militants, that Canada armed them when they were fighting the Russians, and at some point in the past we called them 'the Good Guys'.
He continues rambling on about the damage in the country. I wont argue with the points there, war is a nasty business and many innocent lives are lost... but what's that got to do with him refering to a female soldier as a girl playing dressup? Focus, Coren, focus!!
Oh, and then the rant about Iraq - c'mon Mikey, remember what the complaints were about. Im pretty sure nobody complained to you about Iraq. Quit scoring the cheap points and come back to the game for the big home run...
Which is to complain about innocent death (a good point) and a hypocritical foreign policy (also a good point), but neither of these has to do with calling a girl a dress up soldier for doing something she believed in.
mariomike said:
I just read one...
mariomike said:
Unfortunately, it was...
- Reaction score
- 52
- Points
- 330
Considering that Mr. Coren has yet to step up to the plate, I would suggest that Tpr Blais' committment, guts and sacrifice threatens his masculinity, and shows him to be a small, small man, one who resents having to hide behind men and especially women who do step up.
Samuel Johnson said “Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier"
Mr. Coren, I would suggest that Johnson was thinking specifically of you.
Samuel Johnson said “Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier"
Mr. Coren, I would suggest that Johnson was thinking specifically of you.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
recceguy said:That would be, of course, if he has any.
Given his armchair quarterbacking and grasp of reality, of all things martial, I would tend to assume, he only has a mangina (with the requisite sand).
I doubt he'd know what to do with it, if he found a real man's junk in his pants.
This is one of those 'ad hominem' attacks I spoke about. ;D It's just too hard to resist such an open door.
sorry - but I just choked on my beer. Love the mangina reference. :rofl:
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