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more on desert cam ...

bossi

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(shouldn‘t alarm bells have gone off in some people‘s minds when "negative publicity" became more important than the safety of Canadian soldiers in a combat situation ... ? Heck - surely a public opinion poll would have supported the old-fashioned notion that the lives of Canadian soldiers are worth more to the Canadian public ... than the image of the Liberal Party.)

Saturday » June 29 » 2002

Canada rejected offer from U.S. for uniforms; afraid of PR backlash
Cost also a factor in not equipping troops in Afghanistan with desert camouflage

a journalist
The Ottawa Citizen
Saturday, June 29, 2002

The U.S. was willing to provide Canadian troops headed to Afghanistan with desert camouflage uniforms, but Canadian defence officials declined to purchase those because of cost and concerns that having to use American clothing would result in negative publicity.

The Pentagon‘s Defense Logistics Agency informed its Canadian counterpart it could provide the desert uniforms for the 880 Canadian troops in Afghanistan within seven to 10 days of receiving a official request from Ottawa, according to documents obtained by the Citizen.

In November, Canadian military officials started looking at whether foreign uniforms were available for the Afghan mission, but officers noted there was no money for such a purchase. It was determined that three countries -- the U.S., Britain and Australia -- could provide suitable uniforms, and in February the Americans re-confirmed that the clothing was ready if needed.

But senior officials at National Defence headquarters in Ottawa decided against buying American desert uniforms since the clothing was "not deemed sufficiently beneficial in consideration of all the related factors," according to military documents released under the Access to Information Act.

The lack of desert camouflage uniforms became a source of controversy in February when it was revealed that Canadian troops heading to Afghanistan, a country with desert and mountain terrain, would be wearing dark green clothing intended for use in wooded areas. Canadian soldiers solved the problem by dabbing sand-coloured paint on their uniforms and equipment, but opposition MPs alleged Liberal government cost-cutting in defence had left the soldiers with inferior equipment.

Snipers with the Princess Patricia‘s Canadian Light Infantry solved their camouflage problems by purchasing British military desert uniforms from an army surplus store in England, according to the documents.

Among the factors considered by senior Defence officials in rejecting the American uniforms was the expense and that the U.S. equipment was of an older design. The actual cost of the American uniforms has been censored from the documents, but the reports did note that they would cost about the same as Canadian uniforms.

Canadian military officials also reasoned that domestic suppliers could provide desert camouflage uniforms by mid-July. Once those were issued, the American uniforms would have to be taken out of service and could not be used again. Canadian officers also noted that there could be negative publicity and concerns raised about sovereignty if the troops were clad in American combat clothing.

While the U.S. could quickly ship the uniforms to Canada, it would take another 20 days to add items such as Canadian flags and identification tags and to transport them to Afghanistan, the Defence department reports pointed out. There was also the suggestion that morale among the soldiers might suffer if they were issued with American uniforms.

In a Feb. 19 briefing note, senior military officials told then-defence minister Art Eggleton that there was no need to buy the American uniforms. "The acquisition of the U.S. uniform at this time does not offer any substantial benefits," according to the note signed by then-deputy minister Jim Judd and Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Raymond Henault. "The cost is comparable to the Canadian CADPAT (Arid Region) uniforms that are being ordered."

But troops in Afghanistan never did get those Canadian-made desert uniforms. The clothing will become available in mid-July, by which time the soldiers will have begun to return to Canada.

Maj. Doug Palmer, who heads the Canadian Forces Clothe the Soldier project, said he could not provide a figure on how much the American uniforms would cost. It would cost about $100 for a Canadian-made pair of camouflage pants and a shirt. Each soldier is issued several sets of uniforms.

But Maj. Palmer said that when military officials looked at foreign desert camouflage clothing they also inquired about helmet covers, shirts, pants, rucksack covers, lightweight jackets and covers for the fragmentation vests that soldiers wear. Some of the items would have to be modified to fit Canadian-issued gear such as helmets. "Shirts and pants just doesn‘t go the whole way," he added.

Maj. Palmer said the decision to stay with the woodland camouflage uniforms for Afghanistan was made by army commander Lt.-Gen. Mike Jeffery.

In a letter issued to media outlets in February, Lt.-Gen. Jeffery said he considered whether the lack of a desert-coloured uniform posed an unacceptable risk to troops. "After carefully weighing a variety of factors in conjunction with the commanders in the field, my assessment was that the unit could deploy" with the green clothing, he wrote.

Following the attacks of Sept. 11, Lt.-Gen. Jeffery noted that the military looked at ways to speed up the delivery of its own desert camouflage. "We have also looked into the possibility of obtaining desert uniforms from our allies," Lt.-Gen. Jeffery wrote. "Despite our efforts, it appears unlikely any will be available before summer."

Canadian Alliance defence critic Leon Benoit said the issue of money should not be a factor when it comes to outfitting soldiers who are in a war zone. He said the government and the Department of National Defence have found large amounts of money for items that are not necessarily essential, such as $100 million to purchase new jets for Prime Minister Jean Chrétien. "It‘s simply unacceptable that you send soldiers into combat without the proper equipment," Mr. Benoit said.

The Clothe the Soldier project has been in existence since 1995 with delivery of various items since 1997.

The government launched the first phase of acquiring the new desert uniforms by awarding a contract April 2 to a Montreal company to make enough camouflage fabric to equip between 850 and 900 soldiers. The second phase of the program is to use that fabric to make the uniforms and other field accessories for delivery in July.

But some defence analysts have questioned why the government didn‘t react sooner in issuing the contract since it was apparent since November that Canadian troops would likely be headed to Afghanistan.
 
Pragmatically speaking, if our only casualties resulted from a friendly fire incident at night from an aerial bombardment, wasn‘t the provision of camouflage uniforms a bit of a non-issue?

Since DND has to stretch their budgets to the limit, would it have made sense to supply US uniforms for a couple of months, only to withdraw them and have to destroy them, as the article points out?
 
LOL = Laughing Out Loud ... !

(my father was a carpenter, and taught me the expession "a skilled craftsman never blames his tools ..." - it‘s odd, but my civvie clo, DEU and obsolete, old-fashioned, olive drab cbt clo never faded as quickly as the new CADPAT ... but I guess those horrible, nasty detergents weren‘t so destructive back then ... maybe it‘s a plot by Osama, et al ...)

Military blames detergent for new uniforms‘ fading

Bill Curry
National Post
Friday, July 19, 2002

The uniforms worn by Canadian soldiers are fading after a year in use.

OTTAWA - Canada‘s Armed Forces are battling with laundry-detergent makers over why the military‘s new $21.2-million camouflage uniforms are starting to fade after only a year of use.

Some soldiers have complained about the fading uniforms, which David Laister, a spokesman for the Defence Department, blamed on the sun and ‘‘optical brighteners‘‘ in detergents.

‘‘The fading always occurs due to laundering and exposure to sunlight,‘‘ he said. ‘‘The laundering issue is related, we think, to the detergents which are generally available in North America. The detergents have got optical brighteners in them and this can accelerate the colour loss or change [it] and it‘s most noticeable with strong, deep colours which this pattern is.‘‘

The military advises its troops on how to do their laundry, he said, ‘‘but what the individual member does, we have no control over.‘‘

The green uniforms have a special design on them known as Canadian Disruptive Pattern Temperate Woodland, or CADPAT.

Spokesmen for some of North America‘s biggest laundry detergents were surprised by Mr. Laister‘s comments.

‘‘I‘ve just spoken with our senior technical guy on the laundry side, and he said any top-class laundry detergent available on the market should be used in cold water, and they‘re specifically designed to prevent die transfer and fading,‘‘ said Sean McPhee, a spokesman for Unilever, which makes Sunlight laundry detergent.

‘‘So a good laundry detergent in cold water is specifically designed to do that and millions of Canadians know that. Cold, cold, water and a top, top class laundry detergent: That‘s the ticket ... and call my mom if you don‘t believe me.‘‘

Win Sakdinan, a spokesperson for Procter and Gamble, makers of Tide, Cheer, Gain, Bounce and Downy, recommends Canadian soldiers use Cheer with colour guard to keep their uniforms fresh, bright and lint-free.

Scott Taylor, a military analyst and editor of Esprit de Corps magazine, laughed at the ‘‘exposure to sunlight‘‘ explanation for the fading uniforms.

‘‘Because you‘re meant to wear these things inside?‘‘ he scoffed. ‘‘I mean, which is it? If you‘re in the field, you‘re not washing your uniforms with detergent. It‘s just unbelievable the lines these guys have.‘‘

Some soldiers have returned the uniforms because seams were coming apart, pockets had been sewn upside down or inside out and zippers weren‘t working. Mr. Laister said the poor stitching only affected about 100 of the 204,000 green uniforms and the problems were fixed after the first shipment.

The Canadian military could put the detergent industry‘s advice to use with its new $2.3-million brown desert camouflage uniforms, received just as troops are returning from their mission in Afghanistan.

The 7,600 uniforms arrived at CFB Petawawa last month, but it would have taken a month to ship them to Afghanistan and issue them, said Mr. Laister.

‘‘There wasn‘t enough time. It would take at least a month to have them boxed, shipped and distributed to the troops, and the troops, as you know, are coming back.‘‘

The desert camouflage uniforms have been a public relations headache for the military. Canada had sold its old brown desert uniforms, leaving the troops in Afghanistan to get creative with their new green ones. Most used paint and sand to adapt their CADPAT gear to the harsh terrain of Afghanistan.
 
Pragmatically speaking, if our only casualties resulted from a friendly fire incident at night from an aerial bombardment, wasn‘t the provision of camouflage uniforms a bit of a non-issue?

Since DND has to stretch their budgets to the limit, would it have made sense to supply US uniforms for a couple of months, only to withdraw them and have to destroy them, as the article points out?
 
All the Brits in Afghanistan are half-covered in woodland DPM most of the time, I‘ve seen footage of Germans (and others, I think) there in full woodland camo, and even the US troops there have woodland vests on all time (around each man‘s centre of mass), yet the Canadian media seems to be the only ones concerned with the camo "problem". As long as they get the new desert cadpat issued post-haste, ready for next time, I think we can excuse the current situation.
 
I wonder, if the original CADPAT project had included a plan for alternate terrain variations (desert, winter, whatever), what would have been the result?

Would the opposition parties have loudly proclaimed an obvious intention on the part of the CF to go fight in desert countries without the government knowing?

Would the bar-thumping chest-poking types on this list have complained about the extravagance that delayed the woodland CADPAT distribution or diverted funds from their own favoured or desired acquisition programs?

Mike O‘Leary
 
(hmmm ... )

Dressed to kill ... bugs

By PAUL COWAN, EDMONTON SUN

Uniforms worn by city soldiers in Afghanistan are being quarantined.

The uniforms have been treated with a pesticide which is not approved in Canada for use on clothing.

"We had to get special permission from Health Canada to use the pesticide and it was granted on condition that the uniforms were not worn in Canada," said Canadian Forces Medical Group spokesman Col. Hilary Jaeger.

"The uniforms are not a health hazard, we are simply honouring our agreement with Health Canada.

"In fact, the pesticide involved is licensed in Canada for spraying on plants."

But soldiers who have concerns about the uniforms are being advised to keep them in sealed plastic bags until they can be handed in at the Edmonton Garrison.

About 1,900 suits of camouflage clothing need to have the insecticide removed before they can be reissued.

"At the moment we‘re looking at dry cleaning to remove the chemical from the fabric," said Jaeger.

"Ordinary washing doesn‘t get it out, so a pet or a baby licking the fabric isn‘t going to come to any harm.

"This stuff is only dangerous to insects."

The decision to treat clothing with the insecticide Permethrin was made in a bid to cut the number of potentially hazardous insect bites the troops might suffer in Afghanistan. U.S. tests found using the chemical on clothing cut the number of bite infections by 75%. One of the biggest fears was mosquito bites causing malaria.

The troops were doused in the insecticide while in Afghanistan. Soldiers have 30 days after returning to Canada to hand in the uniforms.
 
In my opinion, the dumb move by the boneheads in Fort Fumble was getting rid of all the old, flat beige desert uniforms used in places like Somalia before the new CADPAT (AR) was ready.

That being said, it was an unfortunate but smart choice not to shell out all that dough just to wear US BDUs for a few months and then destroy them. I also saw the Yanks in the Forest green Kevlar vests and body armour, and when they were fighting in the high altitude mountains, they were wearing forest green parkas over their desert cam too.
 
And perchance, did anyone do any follow up.

The US Army, US Military per se. Upon returning from any and all foriegn operations where contamination from pesticides, creaturesetc is in question, will destroy all uniforms in theatre. Soldiers are issued repat uniforms after a process akin to decontam.

We are still so far behind, we think we are first.

I came back from Africa with larvae in the seems of my combats, after dry cleaning.
 
Harry, this is Canada man. We under-fund our military (like everything else) enough as it is. You really think the muffin heads in Ottawa would allow us to burn our uniforms and buy new sets?

They love to waste money, but I don‘t think they‘d have enough to go around for that.

Mind you at my civvy job, customs, we have been issued all dark blue fancy uniforms (which fade after a few washes to an ugly dark grey)... they want all the old powder blue shirts back, but God only knows why... they can‘t use them anymore!
 
Uniforms.

I hear you on the new uniforms, a friend of mine here in ******** was showing me the fade out and how some manager must have heard the CF‘s version of improper washing and posed it as a reason.

In the same vein, a couple of guys from my old unit are in Corrections and they just got new cargo pants issued. The Deputy in Ottawa (I believe) doesn‘t like them, I guess she feels they are too aggressive looking. Gee, I would have thought the McDonalds shirts they wear would have taken away from the hard corp effect. "Would you like fries with that sir, or supersize it to a minimum prison"...

Uniforms and our duly elected government, propogated by our mandarins always seem to go off in a direction that always treats the user as an after thought.

UBIQUE :rolleyes:
 
Harry... you corrections friends must have the same bosses as I do at customs!

Although they have allowed us the priviledge of wearing cargo pants in our new nearly-black uniforms, one of our officers was seen wearing -- horror of horrors -- his ISSUED ballistic vest! It is of the external variety, and says "CUSTOMS / DOUANES" all over it. This person, a Superintendent (read: supervisor), was at a Tax Office giving a reference for one of his team members to some HR people.

They took offence to his daring to wear ballistic protection anywhere within their view... he was admonished, complaint letters were written...forests were killed... it was mayhem!

BBB...
 
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