Navy to replace official Heart of Oak march with ‘more inclusive’ music

[dimsum]

This was a WWII USN Aviator uniform for a bit.
View attachment 89315

It had a long history - 1920s to 2011. But not very practical if there’s already a service uniform and people don’t fly in those things anymore.

I always thought the “Johnny Cash” ensemble looked fantastic.

Fair - replaced by these to the comical confusion of US Marines:

 

[FSTO]

^^
We have a USN liaison on our deck at Carling. He didn’t connect my poor description of the black uniform with the Johnny Cash until he googled it. He then remembered hearing about them from some grey beards.

 

[dimsum]

^^
We have a USN liaison on our deck at Carling. He didn’t connect my poor description of the black uniform with the Johnny Cash until he googled it. He then remembered hearing about them from some grey beards.

Uh…how new is this person? I think they only replaced that in 2010.

 

[FSTO]

I

Uh…how new is this person? I think they only replaced that in 2010.

think it was more my poor description abilities than his memory skills.

 

[Kilted]

I suspect it has more to do with living in ships at sea than with Heart of Oak, but feel free to provide any evidence to the contrary... Shall we do a look into why more women choose to not be in the infantry? Perhaps there is a song somewhere we can blame for that as well?

The reasons people choose to serve in any particular branch/element are many, but the march past is not one of them.

The one thing that always stands out to me is the conversations I've had with women who were serving when women were first permitted in the infantry. Apparently their response to "Congratulations, you can join the infantry now" was, why would we ever want to join the infantry? It's not a job that the majority of the population would want. We aren't just short of women in the infantry, we are short of everyone.

 

[dapaterson]

The "CAF 25% female" is not "25% of each occupation should be female", but rather is a fairly detailed labour market availability assessment by CAF occupation, which recognizes that some occupations will be majority female, others may land around 25%, and still others will be small percentages.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Does anyone know the words to any march pasts? I always thought they were just tunes without lyrics…

Begone, dull care! I prithee begone from me!
Begone, dull care! you and I shall never agree.
Long time hast thou been tarrying here
And fain thou woulds't me kill,
But, i' faith, dull care,
Thou never shall have my will.

Too much care will make a young man turn grey,
And too much care will turn an old man to clay.
My wife shall dance and I will sing
And merrily pass the day
For I hold it one of the wisest things
To drive dull care away.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Begone, dull care! I prithee begone from me!
Begone, dull care! you and I shall never agree.
Long time hast thou been tarrying here
And fain thou woulds't me kill,
But, i' faith, dull care,
Thou never shall have my will.

Too much care will make a young man turn grey,
And too much care will turn an old man to clay.
My wife shall dance and I will sing
And merrily pass the day
For I hold it one of the wisest things
To drive dull care away.

Die Walküre​

Hojotoho! Hojotoho!
Heiaha! Heiaha! Hojotoho! Heiaha!
Dir rat' ich, Vater, rüste dich selbst;
harten Sturm sollst du bestehn.
Fricka naht, deine Frau,
im Wagen mit dem Widdergespann.
Hei! Wie die goldne Geißel sie schwingt!
Die armen Tiere ächzen vor Angst;
wild rasseln die Räder;
zornig fährt sie zum Zank!
In solchem Strauße streit' ich nicht gern,
lieb' ich auch mutiger Männer Schlacht!
Drum sieh, wie den Sturm du bestehst:
ich Lustige laß' dich im Stich!
Hojotoho! Hojotoho!
Heiaha! Heiaha!
Heiahaha!

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Begone, dull care! I prithee begone from me!
Begone, dull care! you and I shall never agree.
Long time hast thou been tarrying here
And fain thou woulds't me kill,
But, i' faith, dull care,
Thou never shall have my will.

Too much care will make a young man turn grey,
And too much care will turn an old man to clay.
My wife shall dance and I will sing
And merrily pass the day
For I hold it one of the wisest things
To drive dull care away.

Beautiful lyrics they are

 

[RangerRay]

Begone, dull care! I prithee begone from me!
Begone, dull care! you and I shall never agree.
Long time hast thou been tarrying here
And fain thou woulds't me kill,
But, i' faith, dull care,
Thou never shall have my will.

Too much care will make a young man turn grey,
And too much care will turn an old man to clay.
My wife shall dance and I will sing
And merrily pass the day
For I hold it one of the wisest things
To drive dull care away.

Now you obviously had some SNCMs or officers that took the new troops aside and taught them such things. Either I didn’t get that talk, or my unit’s march was a tune sans lyrics.

 

[Navy_Pete]

The "CAF 25% female" is not "25% of each occupation should be female", but rather is a fairly detailed labour market availability assessment by CAF occupation, which recognizes that some occupations will be majority female, others may land around 25%, and still others will be small percentages.

It also completely disregards how a lot of the large occupations have been and continue to be massively male dominated ones.

It's great to see women get into non-traditional type jobs because they now have the option and think it's for them, like technicians etc, but even in the civvy side, where there was never a prohibition on women doing them, and a history of women doing them very successfully in wartime, there has never been big in roads at getting women into things like welding, mechanics, electricians, policing, etc.

WIth all the labour assessments, would be interesting to see if anyone does an occupation equivalent estimate if the CAF had a comparable man/woman ratio what a realistic goal would be.

 

[dapaterson]

WIth all the labour assessments, would be interesting to see if anyone does an occupation equivalent estimate if the CAF had a comparable man/woman ratio what a realistic goal would be.

That is precisely what the review is. Occupation by occupation, based on comparable civilian occupations.

 

[Blackadder1916]

And sometimes a Regiment changes a regimental march simply because they can't stand the jokes.

From

To

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Now you obviously had some SNCMs or officers that took the new troops aside and taught them such things. Either I didn’t get that talk, or my unit’s march was a tune sans lyrics.

Seeing as your Regimental March is an Irish Folk Song, there are lyrics and they're pretty symbolic for your neck of the woods

There is not in the wide world a valley so sweet / The Meeting of the Waters

 

[lenaitch]

The French and American ranks, by themselves, are distinctive. Anyone with a shmick of military understanding will know that they are not British just looking at their shoulder or sleeve.

The point was not how recognizable the various uniforms are, but how the basic uniform styles were all very similar, and those nations don't seemed to be wracked with angst that they 'look British'. Having said that, I honestly don't know the history of the basic long tunic. Maybe everybody is copying the Ethiopian army for all I know.

Actually, saying that then using an example of the US Army’s “new” Pinks and Greens is hilarious.

The original US Army Pinks and Greens, which the current one copies, was only for officers. Enlisted didn’t wear the lighter coloured pants, so none of those 3 people in the picture would be wearing it.

So, the “new” uniform is starting a new tradition.

I don't know about "pinks and greens"; the image I posted looks pretty brown to me.

Again, my point was the use of the word "tradition". Making a change isn't immediately a new 'tradition'. Given the passage of time, it might be the viewed in hindsight as the beginning of one.

Definition of TRADITION

an inherited, established, or customary pattern of thought, action, or behavior (such as a religious practice or a social custom); a belief or story or a body of beliefs or stories relating to the past that are commonly accepted as historical though not verifiable… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

(I realize this is all happening in a thread about a Navy song)

 

[RangerRay]

Seeing as your Regimental March is an Irish Folk Song, there are lyrics and they're pretty symbolic for your neck of the woods

There is not in the wide world a valley so sweet / The Meeting of the Waters

There go! If only everything was on Google when I was in.

 

[Fabius]

That is precisely what the review is. Occupation by occupation, based on comparable civilian occupations.

Out of pure curiosity I wonder what they compared infantry, armoured, artillery and combat engineers too?

 

[dapaterson]

Out of pure curiosity I wonder what they compared infantry, armoured, artillery and combat engineers too?

The methodology is within the regulations: Canadian Forces Employment Equity Regulations

It's been quite some time since I have had any significant involvement with it, though.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I recall a briefing on the occupational survey. They used relatively 'easy' to compare things like cook, clerk, vehicle mechanic, avionics tech, multi-engine (transport) pilot and, and, and ... then the military decided where e.g. infanteer and Navy operations officer (what used to be MARS) fit in terms of 'worth.' I think it made sense.

It, the mid 1960s, the Hellyer era, was 'interesting' to say the least.

 

[OldSolduer]

Ya know what they say:

Its a Long Way to Tipperary.....

To see a Madamoiselle from Armientiers

and may have asked Has Anyone Seen the Colonel.