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TCBF said:
The NDP attract the left wing, but I thought the Liberals had the market sewn up for members of organized crime?
NDP calls for immediate withdrawal from Afghanistan
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The NDP attract the left wing, but I thought the Liberals had the market sewn up for members of organized crime?
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Hey All, I'm new here, been in a while, love this site, KICKASS. anyhow, I was readin about our recovering brothers and had to write to 'ole Taliban Jack himelf. (their offices were closed by this time) I wouldn't mind some thoughts on my letter, PEACE!
I've noticed that you still have the "Support our troops, bring them home" label on your website. Would you please be so kind as to take it down? I know of no troops who did not volunteer for the Afghanistan mission. ALL of the soldiers there are there by choice and are doing a crucial job. I know that most of my friends are begging to be given the chance to go back. I have been to Afghanistan, I have lost friends there, both military and local civilian. I assure you that in order for a functioning society to be rebuilt there, security must be established first. You flout “peacekeeping”, there is limited peace in Afghanistan today to be kept. The only peace that is there, exists because we created it. If we were to bring our troops home, who would maintain that peace? A power vacuum would be created, and who would fill it? You claim that women have no rights or superficial rights at best. How long did it take for women to gain equal rights in Canada? These are processes that will take time to develop, we cannot impose a western style liberal democracy on these people. That change must come from within. This change will only come with education, to educate you need schools that teach more than fundamentalist Islamic thought. To maintain schools, they must be protected so as not to be destroyed by people that would rather an uneducated mass that they could more easily control. These are not only my own thoughts, but those of the Afghanis that shared their tears with me as they both thanked me for being there and apologized for the death of our comrades. They would tell me that the people responsible do not care about Afghanistan and are not true Afghanis. They told me that they had never had anyone give up as much security and luxury as we had in Canada and travel halfway around the world to risk our lives to help someone we didn’t know, for no personal gain. Whenever I meet Canadian Afghanis, they thank me for going there, and doing what I did. Afghanistan had a beautiful culture before war and ignorance destroyed it. The world has abandoned Afghanistan for the past thirty years and this is our chance to do something really good, regardless of politics. The average Afghani just wants enough security to enjoy what little he or she has. As someone who voted for the NDP last election because I support your social endeavors, I am DISGUSTED at your stance on this issue. Not only will I NEVER vote NDP until you get rid of “Taliban Jack” and come up with some REALISTIC solutions to some hard problems, I will be actively campaigning against your specific breed of ignorance. Above all else, I demand to know what troops you claim to be supporting by bringing them home. I have recently volunteered to go back to Afghanistan, because I for one, WILL NOT ABANDON THOSE PEOPLE.
I've noticed that you still have the "Support our troops, bring them home" label on your website. Would you please be so kind as to take it down? I know of no troops who did not volunteer for the Afghanistan mission. ALL of the soldiers there are there by choice and are doing a crucial job. I know that most of my friends are begging to be given the chance to go back. I have been to Afghanistan, I have lost friends there, both military and local civilian. I assure you that in order for a functioning society to be rebuilt there, security must be established first. You flout “peacekeeping”, there is limited peace in Afghanistan today to be kept. The only peace that is there, exists because we created it. If we were to bring our troops home, who would maintain that peace? A power vacuum would be created, and who would fill it? You claim that women have no rights or superficial rights at best. How long did it take for women to gain equal rights in Canada? These are processes that will take time to develop, we cannot impose a western style liberal democracy on these people. That change must come from within. This change will only come with education, to educate you need schools that teach more than fundamentalist Islamic thought. To maintain schools, they must be protected so as not to be destroyed by people that would rather an uneducated mass that they could more easily control. These are not only my own thoughts, but those of the Afghanis that shared their tears with me as they both thanked me for being there and apologized for the death of our comrades. They would tell me that the people responsible do not care about Afghanistan and are not true Afghanis. They told me that they had never had anyone give up as much security and luxury as we had in Canada and travel halfway around the world to risk our lives to help someone we didn’t know, for no personal gain. Whenever I meet Canadian Afghanis, they thank me for going there, and doing what I did. Afghanistan had a beautiful culture before war and ignorance destroyed it. The world has abandoned Afghanistan for the past thirty years and this is our chance to do something really good, regardless of politics. The average Afghani just wants enough security to enjoy what little he or she has. As someone who voted for the NDP last election because I support your social endeavors, I am DISGUSTED at your stance on this issue. Not only will I NEVER vote NDP until you get rid of “Taliban Jack” and come up with some REALISTIC solutions to some hard problems, I will be actively campaigning against your specific breed of ignorance. Above all else, I demand to know what troops you claim to be supporting by bringing them home. I have recently volunteered to go back to Afghanistan, because I for one, WILL NOT ABANDON THOSE PEOPLE.
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Pretty good letter overall. Although I think if we keep harping on the women's rights aspect of this it will give them ammo to pick on us. I don't think you are going to see anything that resembles a burka burning ring any time soon. What you might see is a "women are tolerated" state, like Saudi Arabia or Kuwait. It's going to be a long time before a woman will be able to b*tch out her husband in public for not getting her to a nail appointment on time. 
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Shadowolf said:Nope, sorry zipperhead. The unions love the NDP, not the lieberals.
Nope, sorry Shadowolf. Have a look at the Canadian Auto Workers' website
http://www.caw.ca/news/contactnewsletter/showissue.asp?name=issue&IssueID=568
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http://www.opseu.org/politicalaction/NDPpub1.pdf
Unfortunately my union is still being led by the "old guard" of idiots who bleed NDP.
Whats so funny is that they[NDP] were the only party to break that paper which is supposed to be sacred to unions, the collective agreement,[Rae Days] but hey, don't let reality get in the way. Hmmmm, sounds like a certain party leader we know......
Unfortunately my union is still being led by the "old guard" of idiots who bleed NDP.
Whats so funny is that they[NDP] were the only party to break that paper which is supposed to be sacred to unions, the collective agreement,[Rae Days] but hey, don't let reality get in the way. Hmmmm, sounds like a certain party leader we know......
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It has become quite clear to me that the NDP waffles so much they even confuse each other. Their public statements and policies seem to contradict from one day to the next. Obviously they couldn't give a rat's @$s about our troops, only political gain. I started to steam when I was reading an article on C-net (or C-news) today (Canoe.ca) about yet another poll that states that the majority of Canadians think A-stan is a lost cause.
First of all, 2000 people polled, not enough for an accurate count. Second, I was contacted on the phone by people doing a similar poll and asked about our mission, and to no surprise, the conversation did not last long after I stated that I supported the mission fully. These polls are extremely biased, and I can only hope and pray that people do not take these things seriously.
I am starting to think that the NDP are paying these clowns to do their polls, and to make sure a negative percentage is achieved. What crap!
I am convinced another letter to the editor of the Ottawa Sun is in order regarding these biased polls.
Gnplummer421
First of all, 2000 people polled, not enough for an accurate count. Second, I was contacted on the phone by people doing a similar poll and asked about our mission, and to no surprise, the conversation did not last long after I stated that I supported the mission fully. These polls are extremely biased, and I can only hope and pray that people do not take these things seriously.
I am starting to think that the NDP are paying these clowns to do their polls, and to make sure a negative percentage is achieved. What crap!
I am convinced another letter to the editor of the Ottawa Sun is in order regarding these biased polls.
Gnplummer421
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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gnplummer421 said:First of all, 2000 people polled, not enough for an accurate count. Second, I was contacted on the phone by people doing a similar poll and asked about our mission, and to no surprise, the conversation did not last long after I stated that I supported the mission fully. These polls are extremely biased, and I can only hope and pray that people do not take these things seriously.
Gnplummer421
Funny. You are the second person in a month to make a statement like this. Zipperhead Cop made the same claim last month. Looks like our Pollsters may be being paid big bucks by someone to skew their Polls.
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George,
My house seems to be a magnet for pollsters and telemarketers. Luckily I have dial-up and a teenager that uses MSN chat, the combination of which reduces the amount of fluff that gets through to me. Although no one else gets a hold of me either.... no Hi speed in Addison...yet :
Gnplummer421
My house seems to be a magnet for pollsters and telemarketers. Luckily I have dial-up and a teenager that uses MSN chat, the combination of which reduces the amount of fluff that gets through to me. Although no one else gets a hold of me either.... no Hi speed in Addison...yet :
Gnplummer421
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...but it does have "Calamity Janes". 
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Which is for sale by the way...three hundred and something K. Comes with living space..any takers?
Gnplummer421
Gnplummer421
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One advantage of the death of "conventional, church-sanctioned families" is that there are three last-names in our household. So anyone addressing me by my g/f or her daughter's last name obviously doesn't know me/us, and gets a "sorry, you must have the wrong number."gnplummer421 said:
GP421....for that price, you're obviously not throwing in the teenager. The care & feeding of those things costs a whole lot more than that.
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zipperhead_cop said:Pretty good letter overall. Although I think if we keep harping on the women's rights aspect of this it will give them ammo to pick on us. I don't think you are going to see anything that resembles a burka burning ring any time soon. What you might see is a "women are tolerated" state, like Saudi Arabia or Kuwait. It's going to be a long time before a woman will be able to b*tch out her husband in public for not getting her to a nail appointment on time.
Awesome, I couldn't agree with you more. My whole point was that in the society it takes baby steps, especially on that front. PEACE
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The NDP is holding a panel discussion in Ottawa on Canada's role in Afghanistan
When: 7:00 pm Thursday, October 5, 2006
Where: St. Paul's University Amphitheatre in Ottawa (wheelchair-accessible)
http://www.ndp.ca/files/06-09-stpaulspanel.pdf
I have class Friday, and no mode of transportation.... otherwise I'd avail myself of the chance to openly question the fundamental underpinnings of their position on this issue.
When: 7:00 pm Thursday, October 5, 2006
Where: St. Paul's University Amphitheatre in Ottawa (wheelchair-accessible)
http://www.ndp.ca/files/06-09-stpaulspanel.pdf
I have class Friday, and no mode of transportation.... otherwise I'd avail myself of the chance to openly question the fundamental underpinnings of their position on this issue.
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Zell_Dietrich said:
Having been to one of these things myself in the past I can tell you that you would be wasting your time. The moment you start to express your "alternative view" the lefty crowd will start booing until you sit down or another wooly head jumps up and starts to say something they like the sound of. During the last election here in Dartmouth the Conservative Candidate was asked about Harper's position on same sex marriage. The lefties had packed the hall and as soon as the candidate began to answer the question they began booing so loudly that you couldn't hear his response. He finally shut up and the NDP candidate waded in with his party line....to which they all cheered loudly. This is the democracy that they prefer...mob rule.
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IN HOC SIGNO said:
I am not saying stand in front of the crowd, I'm saying pick up on the stragglers, getting a muffin, standing in line, outside for a smoke. Smile, be friendly, simply ask why they believe certain things. My experience is that 90% of NDPers can be converted in 1 hour or less. (I have had people who told me afterwards that they wanted to disagree with me but can not because the evidence/logical argument I provided was so sound) You can't stop a stampede by standing in front of it and yelling, but if you get some to turn into the heard, it comes to a halt fast. I'm not the type to stand in front of a crowd, I perfer persuading small groups; that way I know I at least convinced a few of them.
"I perfer persuading small groups; that way I know I at least convinced a few of them."
- Excellent Cattledriving Tactics! Cut one from the herd and it's yours! Nibble away at the flanks!
- Well done! You should start scrapbooking your converts...
- Excellent Cattledriving Tactics! Cut one from the herd and it's yours! Nibble away at the flanks!
- Well done! You should start scrapbooking your converts...
medicineman
Army.ca Legend
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Here is the e-mail my MP finally sent back to me.
Thank you for your recent e-mail.
The question of what role Canada should play in Afghanistan has been a
difficult one for me to resolve. It is a complex, multi-layered, and
deeply important issue to all Canadians. I have received letters from
hundreds of well-informed Canadians offering a range of perspectives and
asking thoughtful questions.
In light of the highly emotional and controversial debate surrounding
the role of our Canadian Forces serving in Afghanistan, I would first
like to take the opportunity to address recent criticism regarding the
content of a resolution proposed by an individual riding association
prior to the NDP Convention in Quebec City. The resolution in question
was quickly revoked and in no way represented the Federal NDP's
position. (For the sake of clarity, the full text of the resolution
adopted at our Convention is copied below.)
I join the NDP in calling for the rebalancing and refocusing of the
Canadian operation in Afghanistan, because the mission as it currently
stands is misguided and cannot lead to sustainable peace. It lacks clear
measures of success, and it contains no exit strategy. Given these
conditions, I think we can best support our troops by removing them from
this combat-oriented operation in Afghanistan's southern region.
Increasingly credible sources are stating publicly that we cannot defeat
terrorism through military means alone. For example, Captain Leo
Docherty, a former aide-de-camp to the commander of British forces in
Helmand Province, recently said the NATO-led mission had been
"grotesquely clumsy" and has "sucked [NATO] into a problem unsolvable by
military means." Even Gordon O'Connor, the Minister of National Defence,
has admitted that: "we cannot eliminate the Taliban, not militarily
anyway."
In his recent meeting with the U.S. Council on Foreign Relations, Afghan
President Karzai has said," Bombings in Afghanistan are no solution to
the Taliban. You do not destroy terrorism by bombing villages." Malalai
Joya, a member of Afghanistan's Parliament, has urged Canada to adopt an
alternative role in Afghanistan, one that is independent of US
operations.
Canada initially entered Afghanistan as part of the UN-sanctioned
International Stabilization Force (ISAF), which was created in 2001 to
provide security to Afghanistan's capital region of Kabul. Canada's
original role consisted of providing stability and security for the new
government, assisting with reconstruction, and supporting humanitarian
aid efforts.
Our mission has since changed dramatically - with virtually no public
debate or consultation. Canadian soldiers now operate under NATO
command, as part of a counterinsurgency campaign in the Kandahar region.
For every ten dollars Canada spends on the Afghan mission, nine dollars
go to military operations, and one dollar goes to aid.
This approach has allowed extremist groups to garner increasing support
throughout Afghanistan. A growing body of evidence shows that the
current basis of the Canadian mission to Afghanistan breeds more far
more radicalism than it eliminates, and makes our world a far more
dangerous place. As one Afghan commander in Kandahar told UK researchers
at the Senlis Council, "The foreigners came here and said they would
help the poor people and improve the economic situation, but they only
spend money on their military operations. The poor people are poorer now
than when the Taliban were the government....We would be fools to
believe their lies."
We also have much to learn by listening to the humanitarian actors in
Afghanistan. As CARE Canada's president has asserted, "[the war in
Afghanistan] is unwinnable if we keep concentrating on the
military/technological side without undercutting the world view that
motivates our enemies."
What we can and should do is actively encourage a political peace
process among the key players in the conflict - including Pakistan where
the porous border has made the containment of extremist forces
impossible. While some say it is unrealistic or undesirable to negotiate
with the enemy, nearly all lasting resolutions to modern-day wars have
come through negotiated peace settlements.
It is essential that we redefine the terms of our military mission to
focus on reconstruction and renewal. This is not happening now; our
current mission is devoid of both a comprehensive rebuilding plan and
adequate development assistance. By working toward these goals, Canada
would be pursuing an independent foreign policy - one that is more in
more likely to contribute to genuine peace and democracy in Afghanistan.
Until our government is prepared to seriously re-examine the terms of
the Canadian mission and answer some tough questions, I support the
NDP's demand to bring home the Canadians currently serving in southern
Afghanistan. It is out of a deep respect for these individuals and their
families that I oppose the unwarranted risk to their lives.
Again, I appreciate hearing from you on this important issue. I hope my
message has sufficiently addressed your concerns and served to clarify
my position on the question of Afghanistan.
Sincerely yours,
Denise Savoie
***
BE IT RESOLVED that the New Democratic Party of Canada urge the
government to:
- Take the necessary measures to ensure the safe and immediate
withdrawal of Canadian troops from Afghanistan;
- Increase significantly our resource and financial commitments to
United Nations led multilateral Peacekeeping and humanitarian
initiatives such as in Darfur;
- Support the continuation of development assistance to Afghanistan and
democratic peace building in that country so that reconstruction efforts
and good governance are achieved; and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the New Democratic Party of Canada supports
unequivocally the individual women and men of the Canadian Armed Forces
and that the New Democratic Party of Canada urge the government to
ensure that any future deployment of Canadian troops is debated and
voted on by the representatives of the citizens of Canada in the House
of Commons.
***
I'm now formulating my response to this drivel.
MM
Thank you for your recent e-mail.
The question of what role Canada should play in Afghanistan has been a
difficult one for me to resolve. It is a complex, multi-layered, and
deeply important issue to all Canadians. I have received letters from
hundreds of well-informed Canadians offering a range of perspectives and
asking thoughtful questions.
In light of the highly emotional and controversial debate surrounding
the role of our Canadian Forces serving in Afghanistan, I would first
like to take the opportunity to address recent criticism regarding the
content of a resolution proposed by an individual riding association
prior to the NDP Convention in Quebec City. The resolution in question
was quickly revoked and in no way represented the Federal NDP's
position. (For the sake of clarity, the full text of the resolution
adopted at our Convention is copied below.)
I join the NDP in calling for the rebalancing and refocusing of the
Canadian operation in Afghanistan, because the mission as it currently
stands is misguided and cannot lead to sustainable peace. It lacks clear
measures of success, and it contains no exit strategy. Given these
conditions, I think we can best support our troops by removing them from
this combat-oriented operation in Afghanistan's southern region.
Increasingly credible sources are stating publicly that we cannot defeat
terrorism through military means alone. For example, Captain Leo
Docherty, a former aide-de-camp to the commander of British forces in
Helmand Province, recently said the NATO-led mission had been
"grotesquely clumsy" and has "sucked [NATO] into a problem unsolvable by
military means." Even Gordon O'Connor, the Minister of National Defence,
has admitted that: "we cannot eliminate the Taliban, not militarily
anyway."
In his recent meeting with the U.S. Council on Foreign Relations, Afghan
President Karzai has said," Bombings in Afghanistan are no solution to
the Taliban. You do not destroy terrorism by bombing villages." Malalai
Joya, a member of Afghanistan's Parliament, has urged Canada to adopt an
alternative role in Afghanistan, one that is independent of US
operations.
Canada initially entered Afghanistan as part of the UN-sanctioned
International Stabilization Force (ISAF), which was created in 2001 to
provide security to Afghanistan's capital region of Kabul. Canada's
original role consisted of providing stability and security for the new
government, assisting with reconstruction, and supporting humanitarian
aid efforts.
Our mission has since changed dramatically - with virtually no public
debate or consultation. Canadian soldiers now operate under NATO
command, as part of a counterinsurgency campaign in the Kandahar region.
For every ten dollars Canada spends on the Afghan mission, nine dollars
go to military operations, and one dollar goes to aid.
This approach has allowed extremist groups to garner increasing support
throughout Afghanistan. A growing body of evidence shows that the
current basis of the Canadian mission to Afghanistan breeds more far
more radicalism than it eliminates, and makes our world a far more
dangerous place. As one Afghan commander in Kandahar told UK researchers
at the Senlis Council, "The foreigners came here and said they would
help the poor people and improve the economic situation, but they only
spend money on their military operations. The poor people are poorer now
than when the Taliban were the government....We would be fools to
believe their lies."
We also have much to learn by listening to the humanitarian actors in
Afghanistan. As CARE Canada's president has asserted, "[the war in
Afghanistan] is unwinnable if we keep concentrating on the
military/technological side without undercutting the world view that
motivates our enemies."
What we can and should do is actively encourage a political peace
process among the key players in the conflict - including Pakistan where
the porous border has made the containment of extremist forces
impossible. While some say it is unrealistic or undesirable to negotiate
with the enemy, nearly all lasting resolutions to modern-day wars have
come through negotiated peace settlements.
It is essential that we redefine the terms of our military mission to
focus on reconstruction and renewal. This is not happening now; our
current mission is devoid of both a comprehensive rebuilding plan and
adequate development assistance. By working toward these goals, Canada
would be pursuing an independent foreign policy - one that is more in
more likely to contribute to genuine peace and democracy in Afghanistan.
Until our government is prepared to seriously re-examine the terms of
the Canadian mission and answer some tough questions, I support the
NDP's demand to bring home the Canadians currently serving in southern
Afghanistan. It is out of a deep respect for these individuals and their
families that I oppose the unwarranted risk to their lives.
Again, I appreciate hearing from you on this important issue. I hope my
message has sufficiently addressed your concerns and served to clarify
my position on the question of Afghanistan.
Sincerely yours,
Denise Savoie
***
BE IT RESOLVED that the New Democratic Party of Canada urge the
government to:
- Take the necessary measures to ensure the safe and immediate
withdrawal of Canadian troops from Afghanistan;
- Increase significantly our resource and financial commitments to
United Nations led multilateral Peacekeeping and humanitarian
initiatives such as in Darfur;
- Support the continuation of development assistance to Afghanistan and
democratic peace building in that country so that reconstruction efforts
and good governance are achieved; and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the New Democratic Party of Canada supports
unequivocally the individual women and men of the Canadian Armed Forces
and that the New Democratic Party of Canada urge the government to
ensure that any future deployment of Canadian troops is debated and
voted on by the representatives of the citizens of Canada in the House
of Commons.
***
I'm now formulating my response to this drivel.
MM
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
Her reply's so full of holes that it's pathetic...
Is that the best they can do?
Is that the best they can do?
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