New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[jollyjacktar]

But it does illustrate how garbage our procurement system is, value for money.

 

[Loachman]

Here's where his math fails, however: we don't have the 8.5 B$ Canadian in the annual budget to operate that carrier group, in every given year.

Maybe we could rent some out to pay for the rest. Perhaps Germany might be interested.

 

[Spencer100]

You place that order right now and the NAFTA things goes away

 

[Loachman]

Unless we could get an even better deal in Mexico.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Seasapn twitter shows that OFSV #2 modules are all together, now for fitting out.

 

[Good2Golf]

Unless we could get an even better deal in Mexico.

They may be too busy co-building (with the Dutch) their own POLA frigates based on the Dutch Damen 'Sigma' Frigate. :dunno:


Regards
G2G

 

[Journeyman]

They may be too busy co-building (with the Dutch) their own POLA frigates based on the Dutch Damen 'Sigma' Frigate.

Hey, they need to raise money to pay their share of 'The Wall' [Berlin 2.0, not Pink Floyd]

/back to naval speak

 

[Uzlu]

Well, I thought it should be very obvious by now that there is no way Seaspan can build all of the non-combatants for the coast guard and navy in a timely manner.  But, apparently, there are many bureaucrats that disagree with me.

Why the Liberals really don't want to talk about leasing icebreakers

The leasing arrangement bears an uncomfortable resemblance to the deal that brought Vice-Admiral Norman down

It was one of those rare displays of opposition unanimity in the House of Commons that aren't flashy, but are definitely hard to ignore.

On at least three occasions last week, a member of the Conservatives, the New Democrats or the Groupe Parlementaire Québécois (the splintered remains of the Bloc Quebecois) rose to ask basically the same question:

Whatever became of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's sudden pledge last January to acquire Coast Guard icebreakers through the Chantier Davie shipyard in Levis, Que.?

The replies from the Liberal side tended to be the typical question period non-answer: We continue our negotiations.

The complete answer could prove politically uncomfortable for the governing Liberals — which explains the banal obfuscation.

"We will not do the negotiations here in the House," Public Services and Procurement Minister Carla Qualtrough said.

Small wonder.

On its surface, the arrangement under "negotiation" bears a striking resemblance — in procurement terms — to the deal that brought down the country's second-highest military commander, Vice-Admiral Mark Norman.

He was accused of leaking secret cabinet deliberations related to the last federal contract — a $668 million deal — struck with the Chantier Davie yard.

Norman will appear in court next week to face one charge of breach of trust.

The inability of the once highly-touted National Shipbuilding Strategy to produce supply ships for the navy in a timely manner no doubt will be one the pillars of his defence.

A hopelessly broken procurement system?

The fact that the Liberals, who once questioned the utility of the former Conservative government's plan to lease a navy supply ship, are now negotiating their own rental of light icebreakers — from the same yard — speaks volumes to some analysts.

If Norman intends to argue that the system is hopelessly broken, the prime minister's seemingly out-of-the-blue pledge in Quebec City back in January effectively makes the point for him.

"In terms of the broader objective of what Admiral Norman and some others were working towards, which was getting ships one way or another, the government is today faced with that same dynamic in icebreaking," said Dave Perry, an expert in procurement with the Canadian Global Affairs Institute.

The Liberals, he said, have discovered the options for getting ships in the water when they are not actively being built — or when the building is hopelessly behind schedule — are "relatively finite" under the country's marquee shipbuilding program.

That strategy, devised by the Conservatives in 2010, designated Vancouver's Seaspan as the civilian builder of federal vessels, including the navy's permanent supply ships and icebreakers. Irving Shipbuilding of Halifax is the prime contractor in warship construction.

Chantier-Davie is outside of the official program and Norman's quest to get the navy a temporary supply ship had no end of opponents within the federal bureaucracy.

Those same forces may very well be at work in the new icebreaker "negotiations."

Industry sources close to the deal said there have been a number meetings with federal officials, but no clear progress so far.

Lease or buy?

Apparently, the Liberal government has yet to settle on whether it wants to lease — or purchase outright — as many as four icebreakers, which were built originally for the oil and gas industry but are now available through Chantier-Davie.

As with the naval supply ship project, opponents have quietly argued that the leasing scheme weakens the federal strategy.

Elinor Sloan, a former policy analyst at National Defence, dismissed that argument and said there's more than enough work to go around.

"I don't think awarding small icebreakers would undermine the National Shipbuilding Strategy, because right now Seaspan and Irving have decades of work lined up ahead of them," said Sloan, who is now a professor of international relations at Carleton University.

There are serious capability gaps within the federal fleets that need to be addressed, said both Sloan and Perry.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/chantier-davie-icebreakers-analysis-1.4603819

 

[Cloud Cover]

ok, so whats the narrative now?


- federal entity(s) require ships (new, leased or whatever- they are desperate)
- government says no, no, we need jobs! jobs! jobs! from building ships, not from leasing ships
- private entity offers leased ships and jobs
- government signs contract for said ships and jobs and says "we inherited a turd"
- government arranges to have senior military appointee charged for said "turd"
- another federal entity now says we need more ships
- government leader announces that leasing, is now an option for more ships
- government then engages in politics to obscure whether leasing is going to be an event or not
- meantime no new jobs are being created (other than the ones not related to leasing)
- criminal trial is a month away for senior military appointee.
- facts will be disclosed at trial, uncomfortable facts.
- government leader infers option 1 (design, build and buy) is too hard or too expensive or both (he doesn't know);
- option 2 (let someone else do the design, build and then lease with the credit card) is politically uncomfortable;
- government leader asks his people to ask other people to create a hitherto unknown separate but generally similar option to 2;
- and now, whoever in the government or in the federal entity that is "close to the matter" is talking out of line;
- will there be another investigation;
- if option 1 and 2 are out, is there another turd option?

 

[Dale Denton]

That sounds frustrating enough to be accurate.^

"If one cannot lease the turd or one cannot design and build the turd, then one must BECOME the turd"
- Me

 

[MarkOttawa]

And what will effect of CSCs' massive (and still really unkown) cost be on CAF budget capabilities overall, given that we are never going to get close to spending 2% of GDP on defence?

Australian government warned over planned spending on naval shipbuilding

The Australian government has been warned that its naval shipbuilding programme (NSP) could consume so much of the country’s defence procurement budget that it might put at risk the ability of the Australian Defence Force (ADF) to respond to emerging priorities.

The Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) said in a paper about the country’s defence budget on 24 May that the NSP – featuring the planned procurement of assets including 12 new submarines, nine frigates, and 12 offshore patrol vessels – could eat up about one-third of the country’s procurement expenditure in perpetuity.

ASPI said that even taking into account future growth in the budget and the government’s plan to raise the expenditure to 2% of GDP by 2020–21 [emphasis added], the procurement expenditure could be stretched and the government will be challenged to sustain a balanced force structure.
http://www.janes.com/article/80322/australian-government-warned-over-planned-spending-on-naval-shipbuilding

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Already looking like she just came back from patrol

 

[Colin Parkinson]

New landing craft contract let the AOPs

http://shipsforcanada.ca/our-stories/abco-industries-to-build-landing-craft-for-royal-canadian-navys-new-arctic-and-offshore-patrol-ships

 

[Stoker]

New landing craft contract let the AOPs

http://shipsforcanada.ca/our-stories/abco-industries-to-build-landing-craft-for-royal-canadian-navys-new-arctic-and-offshore-patrol-ships

Call sign POGO 1

 

[FSTO]

I hope that ramp can actually reach the ground!

 

[Dale Denton]

When does it hit the water? Sometime later this Summer?

 

[Stoker]

I hope that ramp can actually reach the ground!

They look similar to what the CCG used in the Arctic?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

You mean those horrible steel ones?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Already looking like she just came back from patrol

The good old east coast weather  ;D

I remember working at the Port of Belledune and having to regularly give the metal on the coal crane a little TLC for rust and corrosion.

 

[Underway]

When does it hit the water? Sometime later this Summer?

I'm hearing late fall (Dec) from some places (skuttlebutt).  But that might be the date she's turned over to the navy.  There are still builders/acceptance trials in the timeline somewhere.  Subcontractor delivery issue and the fact the bow was 60mm too wide has caused some delays.

On the plus side the same skuttlebutt says that AOPS #2 is relatively on schedule.