New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[Halifax Tar]

Not all log. There are a few edge cases, ammo and postal (perhaps), where total numbers and numbers employed would make no sense to split elements. Ammo has one or two working for the air force, one or two strictly for the Navy. If you count coastal depots, there's maybe 30.

Solutions?

That's pretty easy, you guys can stay as is. AFAIK all members of those trades wear the Army uniform. You're Army, all stop.

So keep the status quo for you folk. Army trade with the expectation of continued service for the RCN and Air.

Unless the RCN and RCAF suddenly want to create their own versions of those trades, which I highly doubt.

 

[Rainbow1910]

https://www.reuters.com/world/canada-talks-about-joining-expanded-aukus-defence-chief-blair-says-2024-09-13/

Canada is in discussions about joining an expanded AUKUS deal between the U.S., Britain, and Australia formed to counter China's growing military influence in the Asia Pacific region, Canadian Defence Minister Bill Blair said.

Canada has said it wants to join a second pillar of AUKUS that will collaborate on new military technologies, including artificial intelligence and quantum computing, but has not so far revealed any details of those talks.

"There have been important discussions about processes and platforms on a project-specific basis on where other nations, including Japan and ourselves, might participate," Blair said in an interview in Tokyo where he met his Japanese counterpart Minoru Kihara.

"I would respectfully wait until they've come to their determination, but I'm very optimistic," he said.

Blair said he and Kihara discussed AUKUS, which is already considering working with Japan. The initial phase of AUKUS involves the three founding members working on nuclear submarine technology for Australia.

Blair, who was on his first trip to Japan as defence minister, arrived in Tokyo from South Korea, which is also in talks about a role in AUKUS.

This potentially could be quite valuable for programs like unmanned warships with partners like Australia and the United States, alongside a multitude of other programs.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I suspect the price of admission will be a new sub buy and soon.

 

[RangerRay]

I hope it would also include ditching our United Front overlords…

 

[KevinB]

https://www.reuters.com/world/canada-talks-about-joining-expanded-aukus-defence-chief-blair-says-2024-09-13/

This potentially could be quite valuable for programs like unmanned warships with partners like Australia and the United States, alongside a multitude of other programs.

Most of the other partners aren’t holding their breath that you will belt up to the bar for the cost of admission.

I suspect the price of admission will be a new sub buy and soon.

And then some…

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Most of the other partners aren’t holding their breath that you will belt up to the bar for the cost of admission.

We were building autonomous semi-submersibles in the 1980's. Used to see them being tested all the time.

 

[KevinB]

We were building autonomous semi-submersibles in the 1980's. Used to see them being tested all the time.

And?

I'd suggest zero relevance, for a few reasons:

1) as just like the Avro Arrow, when the Canadian money stops, others didn't. Personnel tend to follow the money, and often end up working for allies that pay.
2) stuff 40 years ago isn't exactly a credible leg to stand on.

Canada wants in as a Pillar 2 AUKUS member, but there are many obstacles to that path.
The biggest obstacle is outside of very limited places (DRES, CSE, segments of CANSOFCOM) Canada has no real understand of security and secrecy.
Following the Security and Secrecy issue, there is the whole funding and focus of mission (which the lack thereof tend to really hurt the prioritization of Security and Secrecy).

Canadians need to understand that.

 

[Underway]

I suspect the price of admission will be a new sub buy and soon.

Buying from Japan (best sub available IMHO though the Germans make a great product). Australia is musing the JAUKUS is going to be based on the new Mogami class frigate being purchased for Australia as their teir two combatant. They don't mention Canada of course because it was an article on new frigates and what Japan can provide.

The thing is the pillar two tech transfer stuff has delivered even less than the pillar one. They just go around to each others conferences and write briefing notes on said conference. It hasn't paid off for anything. Australia's press is souring on the deal, wondering "wheres the beef" as all it seems to them is that they get to support US and UK nuclear submarines at bases and that's it so far.

Not that I hold the reactionary Australian press in high regard.

 

[KevinB]

Buying from Japan (best sub available IMHO though the Germans make a great product). Australia is musing the JAUKUS is going to be based on the new Mogami class frigate being purchased for Australia as their teir two combatant. They don't mention Canada of course because it was an article on new frigates and what Japan can provide.

The thing is the pillar two tech transfer stuff has delivered even less than the pillar one. They just go around to each others conferences and write briefing notes on said conference. It hasn't paid off for anything. Australia's press is souring on the deal, wondering "wheres the beef" as all it seems to them is that they get to support US and UK nuclear submarines at bases and that's it so far.

Not that I hold the reactionary Australian press in high regard.

Keep in mind that it was only last week that Congress passed the ITAR exemption for Technical Data for AUKUS. Everything in Pillar 2 was contingent upon that exemption as the safeguards on nuclear power technology doesn’t just rest with DoD, and Quantum Computing doesn’t just rest with DoD either — as well as a few other aspects to P2.

There are some other administrative issues to be ironed out as well WRT Security that some members haven’t finished addressing, but it should start producing member benefits in short order.

 

[Underway]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/coast-guard-cutter-1.7354350

Those seaspan CCG vessels can't come soon enough.

 

[Czech_pivo]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/coast-guard-cutter-1.7354350

Those seaspan CCG vessels can't come soon enough.

Unless they are confiscating the illegal catch or seizing the ship, what is really being done to prevent this from continuing to occur? Simply stopping the ship, inspecting the fish, photographing/documenting the catch and then letting them continue on their merry way, will simply become the 'cost of doing business'. The only time positive change occurs in the business world is when it hits someone in their pocketbook and profits falls or cease all together.

 

[Kirkhill]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/coast-guard-cutter-1.7354350

Those seaspan CCG vessels can't come soon enough.

Or the CCG-AOPS from ISY. Seems like they would be the ideal vessel in the application. Originally designed as a patrol ship, not as a NAVAIDS tender.

 

[KevinB]

Unless they are confiscating the illegal catch or seizing the ship, what is really being done to prevent this from continuing to occur? Simply stopping the ship, inspecting the fish, photographing/documenting the catch and then letting them continue on their merry way, will simply become the 'cost of doing business'. The only time positive change occurs in the business world is when it hits someone in their pocketbook and profits falls or cease all together.

Sink the ship… Ask the crew in the best ‘80’s Cosby voice ‘how long can you tread water…’

Pretty solid deterrent.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Sink the ship… Ask the crew in the best ‘80’s Cosby voice ‘how long can you tread water…’

Pretty solid deterrent.

Indonesian blew up illegal fishing boats

 

[Kirkhill]

Scottish Government accused of bungling ferry contract as it nationalises last commercial shipyard on the Clyde

The last commercial shipyard on the Clyde has been taken into public ownership following a long-running dispute over the construction costs of two new ferries amid claims that the contract was “bungled” by ministers.

www.telegraph.co.uk

Cautionary message to Seaspan and Davie? Commercial yards and "provincial" ferries resulting in the yards going under?

High tech LNG ferries in Quebec and High tech catamarans in BC.

Meanwhile industry plods along buying low tech stuff that works and cuts their cloth to suit. And occasionally buy up somebody else's vanity project for 10 cents on the dollar.

Bump....

5 years later and

SNP ferries fiasco deepens as vessel needs replacement parts before ever setting sail

Nationalised shipyard bosses cannibalise components from sister ferry in attempt to hand Glen Sannox over by latest deadline

www.telegraph.co.uk

The SNP’s ferries fiasco has deepened after it emerged one of the delayed and over-budget vessels already needs replacement parts.

Worn or malfunctioning components on the Glen Sannox, which was originally due to be finished six years ago, but is still not ready, are being replaced with parts stripped out from its sister ship, the Glen Rosa, which is also yet to set sail.

The two ferries were due to enter service in 2018 and 2019, respectively, at a cost to taxpayers of £97 million. However, they remain unfinished and hte total costs have spiralled to close to £400 million.

 

[Underway]

Of course a new vessel needs replacement parts. It's a frigging prototype you morons!

 

[Navy_Pete]

Of course a new vessel needs replacement parts. It's a frigging prototype you morons!

lol, don't tell JSS that; their sparing plan is... interesting. I expect parts to be yoinked off ship 2 to get ship 1 through sea trials.

 

[Underway]

lol, don't tell JSS that; their sparing plan is... interesting. I expect parts to be yoinked off ship 2 to get ship 1 through sea trials.

That doesnt surprise me. Until AJSS get going one would hope. At least some equipment (unlike for AOPS) is the same as the rest of the fleet (radar, CIWS and other things).

 

[Navy_Pete]

That doesnt surprise me. Until AJSS get going one would hope. At least some equipment (unlike for AOPS) is the same as the rest of the fleet (radar, CIWS and other things).

No, they just decided they wouldn't buy anything not needed for the 6M of planned maintenance, and pretty limited spares for long lead items. They also didn't buy any rebuild kits or anything. They asked us for input on their sparing plan for SW, compressed air, and other ancilliary/auxiliary system based on our decades of in-service experience on multiple classes of ships; we more or less quit when they refused to buy anything beyond the LSAR the OEMs provided. We had better things to do than spend days talking about it with zero changes.

There is some kind of assumption that nothing will break early, or nothing will get accidentally broken during installation STW, and nothing will be defective, so the LSAR data is 100% accurate, and real life doesn't happen (especially on a first of a class of 2 ships, which is still in the building learning curve).

Some of the lead times for rebuild kits for valves is in weeks or months, cost a fraction of a single day of builders trials, and will be needed anyway within the first 5 years of normal operation, so it's a puzzling approach. It just shifts legitimate initial provisioning costs from the PMO, where it would be a rounding error on the budget, to the in service, where they don't have procurement capacity, TDP access, or a network of suppliers for those parts.

AJISS is still scaling up to handle just AOPs, and not sure how Thales will take on the MWAV contract as well, but there will be a large learning curve in any case once they take on JSS as well, and probably will take a few years before they get the basics sorted.

Again, good time to take a purple job outside of ADM(Mat).

 

[dapaterson]

Initial provisioning is the responsibility of the project, not of NP.

But on occasion projects manage to escape their responsibilities...