New Dress Regs 🤣

[Eye In The Sky]

I suspect the rules about what footwear you need to wear with the skirt will prevent guys from doing it for a laugh. Women can't wear ankle boots with the skirt now, so I doubt ankle boots with skirts will be allowed when the new rules come out. If a bunch of guys want to buy pumps and learn to walk in them for the "entertainment" of wearing a skirt, all the more power to them. I'm sure if/when they get the reaction they wanted they will go right back to trousers.

Whatever the new rules will be, there will still be rules about what can be worth with what, and when it can be worn.

Why not just wear issued oxfords? Pumps are optional.

Ankle boots aren’t “mandatory” for NCMs. If not specified, I’ve worn oxfords for years. The line “ankle boots are the normal footwear at for Army DEU NCMs” was removed from 265 IIRC.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Any word or predictions on if this will change the piercing policy? Would be cool to get a small stud somewhere

Some, yes.

Also, do you think this will be limited to OFP?

That’s not the intent as I’ve seen it. It will be for all CAF members, enrolment to release.

 

[Weinie]

Was that in the days before the upgrade to WD-40?

10-W-30, WD-40, WTI, it's all oil, and it worked.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Insightful. I agree about the free-for-all. One thing I've learned is CoC's often treat people quoting policy as a personal insult. They're quick to pull out the "Oh ya?!" and "Is that right?!" guns. Then shit gets real. The gloves and toque crowd won't be able to compute long hair and will need to punish people for it.

There is a pretty detailed plan for the implementation of this; I can’t speak for the army or Navy but the Air Force is talking this policy change “last month”; there will be no surprise at…any levels between L1 - below.

“Free for all”; this might be a concept people need to check now, before the changes. Having dyed hair, gel nails and skirts in 3b by any member won’t be a free for all. It will be authorized dress.

I think everyone needs to personally set their own head on right about this, have the right mindset…

 

[Furniture]

Why not just wear issued oxfords? Pumps are optional.

Ankle boots aren’t “mandatory” for NCMs. If not specified, I’ve worn oxfords for years. The line “ankle boots are the normal footwear at for Army DEU NCMs” was removed from 265 IIRC.

Fair enough, I hadn't dug into the rules about authorized footwear with a skirt, I was going by what I have seen over the last couple of decades.

My overall point stands though, a few will wear skirts to get a reaction, otherwise it will be people who would have likely sought permission via administrative channels. Removing the administrative barrier is a great move, and hopefully makes members feel more comfortable in their uniforms.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Personally, my “big question” is how will our Allies view us as a military; the changes are far more broad than I’d thought they would be, if I am honest. There will be the possibility of a mbr to be in DEU with skirt, multiple earrings, gel nails, with long hair dyed blue and a beard dyed pink. If that mbr is on a picture on say, a BBC/CBC/CNN article how will Canadians and our Allies react?

Should we/do we need to care about that?

As to COs/Chiefs and others making their own dress regs; there will be some push back no doubt from those who don’t like the changes. There likely was with weed too and they don’t get to make their own rules. I suspect there will be some clear direction from the most senior leadership on this subj.

There really should be no surprises at the CO/Chief level when this is officially public consumption (in details) and detailed at the unit/sub-unit levels.

 

[btrudy]

Personally, my “big question” is how will our Allies view us as a military; the changes are far more broad than I’d thought they would be, if I am honest. There will be the possibility of a mbr to be in DEU with skirt, multiple earrings, gel nails, with long hair dyed blue and a beard dyed pink. If that mbr is on a picture on say, a BBC/CBC/CNN article how will Canadians and our Allies react?

Should we/do we need to care about that?

Meh. If they're going to have stupid biases and make decisions based upon that, I suppose we can't really stop that. But we should hardly be making policy on what our people are allowed or not allowed to do based upon catering to the perceived prejudices of a bunch of foreigners.

As to COs/Chiefs and others making their own dress regs; there will be some push back no doubt from those who don’t like the changes. There likely was with weed too and they don’t get to make their own rules. I suspect there will be some clear direction from the most senior leadership on this subj.

There really should be no surprises at the CO/Chief level when this is officially public consumption (in details) and detailed at the unit/sub-unit levels.

I would hope that the policy when it comes out outlines when COs are allowed to order exemptions to the policy (bona fide safety / operational reasons only) and explicitly state that other reasons (desire for uniformity for parades etc) are not allowed.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Meh. If they're going to have stupid biases and make decisions based upon that, I suppose we can't really stop that. But we should hardly be making policy on what our people are allowed or not allowed to do based upon catering to the perceived prejudices of a bunch of foreigners.

Calling something “stupid biases” might be a bit wide-brushed. Not all countries and cultures see things exactly the way Modern Canada does; so I’m hopeful that Snr Leadership assesses this and risk is examined/accepted at the right level. I’ve worked on Ops with Allies; I can tell you that there was so folks who weren’t…”impressed” with our weed policy, especially for aircraft techs turning wrenches at +24 hours and such.

I also included Canadians in my example with CBC; we do need to care what they think - day to day we don’t enjoy immense public awareness and support as a matter of routine, IMO.

It’s a consideration that is valid to me, and others I’ve talked to.

I would hope that the policy when it comes out outlines when COs are allowed to order exemptions to the policy (bona fide safety / operational reasons only) and explicitly state that other reasons (desire for uniformity for parades etc) are not allowed.

That policy exists now; read CFP 265, Ch 1, Para 7 and notice “subj to overall command direction”. It’s never been a free for all for COs.

However, from what I’ve seen and been briefed on, the policy will provide sufficient detail for all levels of command to know their arcs.

 

[btrudy]

I can tell you that there was so folks who weren’t…”impressed” with our weed policy, especially for aircraft techs turning wrenches at +24 hours and such.

Meh, with that there's at least a somewhat legitimate concern that it'll affect people's performance on the job. A largely misguided concern since alcohol has been allowed the entire time mind you, but still.

When I dye my hair purple, it will have no impact upon my ability to do my job. It'll just mean I'm a bit happier while going about it, because I'm finally allowed to do something that previously I've been stuck doing only during xmas vacation.

I don't think it's unreasonable to refer to such biases as stupid, given the complete lack of any rational link to actual operational effectiveness.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Alcohol and weed don’t interact the same with the body; that is why I can’t drink 12 hours before flying but am restricted to weed 28 DAYS before flying. Apples/oranges.

If you deploy and are told purple hair is not authorized IAW TSO 1-2-3, as hair colour doesn’t affect operational effectiveness I’m sure you won’t mind changing it to a TSO approved colour.

Based on a bonafide operational necessity and order, of course.

I think the CAF also wouldn’t insult another cultures with different values as ours as “stupid biases”. Because that might be insulting…

 

[btrudy]

And if you deploy and are told purple hair is not authorized IAW TSO 1-2-3, as hair colour doesn’t affect operational effectiveness I’m sure you won’t mind changing it to a TSO approved colour.

Based on a bonafide operational necessity and order, of course.

I think the CAF also wouldn’t insult another cultures with different values as ours as “stupid biases”. Because that might be insulting…

Are we talking actual operational requirements? Those are reasonable. Having hair that's particularly visible and thus would make me easier to shoot is a good reason to give it the ole buzz cut.

Adhering to some people's notion of how a military member "should" look is a completely different thing.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Are we talking actual operational requirements? Those are reasonable. Having hair that's particularly visible and thus would make me easier to shoot is a good reason to give it the ole buzz cut.

Adhering to some people's notion of how a military member "should" look is a completely different thing.

I’m talking about any approved TSO (Theatre Standing Order) or similar item. Maybe it’s a restriction from the Host Nation, or Force who administers/controls/secures a MOB, FOB, OS-HUB, etc. I’ve been subj to a few TSO from
different host nations and HHQs. I never really had the offer/option to question their origin.

 

[OldSolduer]

Has anyone mentioned safety? I know the CBRN considerations have.

How about hair getting caught in moving parts on a vehicle? Just asking.

 

[dangerboy]

Has anyone mentioned safety? I know the CBRN considerations have.

How about hair getting caught in moving parts on a vehicle? Just asking.

The unofficial info I saw on social media had the following statement "Personal Safety and the ability to effectively operate equipment properly takes precedence; Comds maintain responsibility for ensuring this".

So I think safety will be considered while at the same time you don't want people trying to use it as an excuse to resist change.

 

[OldSolduer]

Adhering to some people's notion of how a military member "should" look is a completely different thing.

And just who are “some people “? The CDS? MND? The people of Canada?

 

[SupersonicMax]

Has anyone mentioned safety? I know the CBRN considerations have.

How about hair getting caught in moving parts on a vehicle? Just asking.

How do we deal with female hair now?

 

[OldSolduer]

How do we deal with female hair now?

I think that has been answered.

 

[SupersonicMax]

I think that has been answered.

My point is that we already have stipulations that deal with that aspect.

 

[OldSolduer]

My point is that we already have stipulations that deal with that aspect.

Yes you do BUT there’s always one in every crowd, right?

 

[Furniture]

I would hope that the policy when it comes out outlines when COs are allowed to order exemptions to the policy (bona fide safety / operational reasons only) and explicitly state that other reasons (desire for uniformity for parades etc) are not allowed.

I am sure there will be provisions for COs to order specific dress for parades, just like we have now.

They likely won't be able to tell people to not dry their hair, for uniformity, just like how they can't everybody to get a "high and tight" for parades right now.

As others have said, there will be direction from the top giving COs clear arcs, just like when WEEDFORGEN came down, and it was made clear that unless there was a operational reason COs could not ban weed in their units.