Ontario Majority Government 2022-2026 (?)

[The Bread Guy]

Correct: it's a provincial jurisdiction. But now the Feds want the cities and provinces to build more housing, so there's the rub...

Fine balancing act: some out there are saying Team Fed should pony up some funding to help (in spite of high-priced-help "it's not really our job" statements recently), but once in, rarely out.

Another part of the wrestle pointed out by some way smarter than me: how do you coalesce all the interests of the province & territories, as well as the hundreds of municipalities across Canada, on anything but the very-highest-level-of-vague principles?

Tough tug of war for the feds, but the "not my job" IA isn't a good look.

 

[brihard]

So, I guess that’s where the difference is found between exercise of power, (e.g., legislative or regulatory authority) and exercise of influence (e.g., incentivized funding, negotiated shifts to preferred policy, etc). The province has the lawful authority to make the decisions regarding land use, planning, etc. the federal government has obvious interests, but lacks authority to unilaterally see them reflected in policy. This is the challenging political realm of intergovernmental affairs. If the feds have a desire that is squarely a provincial call, how can they convince the province to lean that way?

In any case, greater housing availability is a subject where the feds and the province of Ontario seem to largely be aligned. Not sure the feds really need to do much on this portfolio in Ontario besides figure out where financial incentives might spur the kind of development they want.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Fine balancing act: some out there are saying Team Fed should pony up some funding to help (in spite of high-priced-help "it's not really our job" statements recently), but once in, rarely out.

Another part of the wrestle pointed out by some way smarter than me: how do you coalesce all the interests of the province & territories, as well as the hundreds of municipalities across Canada, on anything but the very-highest-level-of-vague principles?

Tough tug of war for the feds, but the "not my job" IA isn't a good look.

Easy... you look at China, your role model, and eliminate all private land ownership so the state can conscript territory for the needs of 'the masses'

 

[Good2Golf]

The Feds could also incentives through tax credits, but that’s not in line with the ‘tax more, pick who receives help’ way of thinking with the current government.

 

[The Bread Guy]

The Feds could also incentives through tax credits, but that’s not in line with the ‘tax more, pick who receives help’ way of thinking with the current government.

That may not even be direct/quick enough to offer the help being sought out there.

It also doesn't help that a lot of narrative one way talks about helping poor people needing lower rents and more social housing, while another in the other direction talks about people in the middle class not being able to find/afford a home of their own. Gotta find something that helps both, but that won't be easy.

Easy... you look at China, your role model, and eliminate all private land ownership so the state can conscript territory for the needs of 'the masses'

Or the constitutionally easy approach (not): take the Brit approach and make all the municipalities creatures of the feds instead of the provinces

 

[Kirkhill]

Agreed, we should be paving over single family dwellings and building low rise apartments and condos.

How about just relocating all the cities from the farmland and relocating them to the Shield? Or better yet, the Barrenlands. Chesterfield Inlet is pretty close to geographic dead centre.

 

[Kirkhill]

But nothing constitutionally gives that to the feds. That would be an overstep if they tried to exert powers regarding farmland that they don’t have.

Eggzackly.

The provinces administer the turf. The Feds are a creature of the provinces. Despite Sir John A's best efforts the British North America act could not erase that fundamental fact. The colonies created Ottawa. Ottawa did not create the colonies or the provinces.

 

[IKnowNothing]

How about just relocating all the cities from the farmland and relocating them to the Shield? Or better yet, the Barrenlands. Chesterfield Inlet is pretty close to geographic dead cencentre

How about just ignoring the bought and paid for bs and implementing the urban development plans already in place with the capacity and land aplenty within pre 2022 urban boundaries to hit the targets set out for the next 30 years by investigating and addressing the issues preventing the surplus of approved homes from being built?

 

[Kirkhill]

How about just ignoring the bought and paid for bs and implementing the urban development plans already in place with the capacity and land aplenty to hit the targets set out for the next 30 years by investigating and addressing the issues preventing the surplus of approved homes from being built?

Because it is easier to sell endless possibilities than it is to convince people to live within their means. And their means includes the physical boundaries they have bought and paid for.

I love Singapore as an urban example. It is a city state on an island that has to live within its means. And it does so extraordinarily well.

If Toronto folded itself inwards and stuck to its knitting then I have no doubt they could be as successful as Singapore in this digital age. On the other hand the prospect of colonizing the rest of Canada, all 10,000,000 km2 of it, and harvesting the rents is really appealing too.

Another way to look at it is the difference between those people that launch companies and turn them into multi-generational institutions and those people who launch one IPO (Initial Public Offering) after another. The IPO crowd sells dreams and profits from them. They never actually have to put in the hard work to make the company successful and keep it successful.

Why rework industrial lands when it is so much easier to convince people to move to virgin lands?

 

[IKnowNothing]

Because it is easier to sell endless possibilities than it is to convince people to live within their means. And their means includes the physical boundaries they have bought and paid for.

In the context of the current housing crisis thats a redherring fueled by the bought and paid for bs. 1.2 million approved homes. At current (record setting) rates thats more than 12 years of housing starts without touching a single new approval, let alone those on freshly granted lands. These actions dont create net new stock they just replace other things in the queue (if theyre even actioned). Its a shell game with multi decade ramifactions, with the current crisis as the distraction

 

[IKnowNothing]

Urban citizens, governments, and bureaucrats: We want to densify and imvest in transit.

Rural Conservatives: Thats a 15 minute city! A conspiracy to erase our way of life!

Also Rural Conservatives: Yes Daddy, erase the rural/smalltown way of life and swallow us up with unending urban sprawl

As a rural conservative, it makes me really miss having provincial representative with a spine like Bill Murdoch.

 

[Kirkhill]

In the context of the current housing crisis thats a redherring fueled by the bought and paid for bs.

As you like.

1.2 million approved homes. At current (record setting) rates thats more than 12 years of housing starts without touching a single new approval, let alone those on freshly granted lands. These actions dont create net new stock they just replace other things in the queue (if theyre even actioned). Its a shell game with multi decade ramifactions, with the current crisis as the distraction.

It sounds to me as if you are saying "that which cannot continue must stop". Something different needs to be done. Either Toronto makes itself more attractive working within its existing boundaries and existing rules, or it changes its boundaries, or its rules, or it becomes less attractive and people relocate. Incomers don't locate in the first place.

 

[Kirkhill]

Also Rural Conservatives: Yes Daddy, erase the rural/smalltown way of life and swallow us up with unending urban sprawl

Or recreate the Market Town environment that interspersed small, self-sufficient towns across a low density agricultural landscape. As an urban planning strategy it only has a few millennia of provenance. Conversely large urban centers are stacked yay high in the deserts of the middle east.

Detroit seems to be experiencing something of an epiphany....

Density was lowered when people moved out of town after the car industry closed up shop.
The City is now embracing its lower density by plowing up vacant lots/block and turning them into farms.
The net effect is equivalent to making the City an amalgam of rural villages and market towns.

Urban Farming and Food Entrepreneurship in Detroit: Cultivating Sustainable Solutions | The Michigan Chronicle

Urban Farming and Food Entrepreneurship in Detroit: Cultivating Sustainable Solutions

michiganchronicle.com

Of course there are side effects

Wild Animals that Call Detroit Home: Wildlife of Michigan's Largest City - Southwest Journal

Discover the surprising wildlife of Detroit! From coyotes to raptors, explore the urban habitats and learn how wild animals adapt in the city.

www.southwestjournal.com

 

[IKnowNothing]

It sounds to me as if you are saying "that which cannot continue must stop". Something different needs to be done. Either Toronto makes itself more attractive working within its existing boundaries and existing rules, or it changes its boundaries, or its rules, or it becomes less attractive and people relocate. Incomers don't locate in the first place.

i believe my words were "investigate and address the issue preventing currently approved homes from being built" or words to that effect.

Stock and flow issue.
Stock tier 1 -> all land (in desired area)
Stock tier 2 -> land allowed for housing development
Stock tier 3 -> approved homes
Stock tier 4 -> livable homes

Currently, Stock 4 is critically low. Stock 3 has a major surplus. Stock 2 has been assessed as sufficient to meet decades of need. Flow from 2-3 is materially outpacing that of 3-4.

The government response has been to blame flow from 2-3 while unnecessarily boosting stock 2. It stinks to high heaven

 

[Kirkhill]

i believe my words were "investigate and address the issue preventing currently approved homes from being built" or words to that effect.

Stock and flow issue.
Stock tier 1 -> all land (in desired area)
Stock tier 2 -> land allowed for housing development
Stock tier 3 -> approved homes
Stock tier 4 -> livable homes

Currently, Stock 4 is critically low. Stock 3 has a major surplus. Stock 2 has been assessed as sufficient to meet decades of need. Flow from 2-3 is materially outpacing that of 3-4.

The government response has been to blame flow from 2-3 while unnecessarily boosting stock 2. It stinks to high heaven

I'm sure it does stink. To this outsider it sounds like it might be time to chuck this bunch of crooks and hire another bunch of crooks for a short time. Replace regularly before they can do too much damage.

 

[suffolkowner]

I'm sure it does stink. To this outsider it sounds like it might be time to chuck this bunch of crooks and hire another bunch of crooks for a short time. Replace regularly before they can do too much damage.

1 term limits lol

 

[IKnowNothing]

I'm sure it does stink. To this outsider it sounds like it might be time to chuck this bunch of crooks and hire another bunch of crooks for a short time. Replace regularly before they can do too much damage.

I was thinking that we (Ontario constituents, especially Conservatives with pretty solid access to our MPP's) could stop pretending our team's shit doesn't stink and collectively demand accountability from our elected representatives rather than defending rank corruption on partisan grounds

 

[Kirkhill]

I was thinking that we (Ontario constituents, especially Conservatives with pretty solid access to our MPP's) could stop pretending our team's shit doesn't stink and collectively demand accountability from our elected representatives rather than defending rank corruption on partisan grounds

Cynicism set in early for me. I don't really expect much from my politicians these days. I would just as soon hire some honest crooks, and let them dip into the bank for a while, as hire a conviction politician. The crooks tend to leave me alone and let me carry on with my own beliefs and my own life. They aren't messing me around trying to improve me.

 

[lenaitch]

As for Ontario's Municipal Board, it has its uses. Smashing down NIMBY's is a good one. Allowing better access for Developers to move against municipality wishes is a bad one.

The OMB was replaced by the Ontario Land Tribunal a few years ago. The OLT's scope is quite a bit smaller. So long as a municipality's decision is consistent with its official plan, the OLT cannot overturn it. It acts more like an 'appeals court' for municipal decisions where only errors in process, law, etc. are considered, as opposed to the former OMB which acted like a 'super council' and could override municipal decision on any grounds.

The provinces administer the turf. The Feds are a creature of the provinces. Despite Sir John A's best efforts the British North America act could not erase that fundamental fact. The colonies created Ottawa. Ottawa did not create the colonies or the provinces.

Certainly in terms of the current topic of housing, land use, etc. but as a general statement, I disagree. Constitutionally, the provinces are subordinate to the federal level by virtual of Sec. 91. which basically states that if a matter is not specifically assigned to the provinces, it belongs to the feds. This is exactly the opposite of the way I read the US constitution which defaults to the 'sovereign states'.

 

[Kirkhill]

Certainly in terms of the current topic of housing, land use, etc. but as a general statement, I disagree. Constitutionally, the provinces are subordinate to the federal level by virtual of Sec. 91. which basically states that if a matter is not specifically assigned to the provinces, it belongs to the feds. This is exactly the opposite of the way I read the US constitution which defaults to the 'sovereign states'.

And therein, I would argue, lies the power of imagination. MacDonald secured what he could in his present, giving up what he did as needs must. But he secured the infinite possibilities of the future.

Does your interpretation require that the provinces acquiesce to federal novelty?