Premier Ford To Use "Notwithstanding" Against Education Staff- split fromFreedom Convoy Protests

[Fishbone Jones]

Dividing it up according to enrollment & other factors - good point.

The other side of that coin is that all Ontarians benefit from well-educated kids. How "well educated" are kids coming out of the current system all you want (what's cursive mean?)? Good question, but by your reasoning, people who don't own cars shouldn't have to pay that bit of tax that doesn't come from gasoline sales that goes into roads, or people who don't take the bus shouldn't pay that bit of taxes.

I can stand paying for school, but they better give me the same voice as parents, into curriculums, etc.

 

[brihard]

Myself only. However, I know of many others also. I just used the health system for the first time in two years. I had a normal blood screen and pissed in a cup. The time before that, it was the vaccinations(2) at the very beginning. Which I took to soothe my wife's anxiety in her being ordered to take or lose her job. Otherwise that instance wouldn't be there. Prior to that was blood work again. Without the jabs, it would be three blood tests in 5 years. Lots of us seniors don't use it much more than that. There tons of young people, with covid, that have used the system more than I have in the last 4 years. Not an argument, just an observation.

For sure- I’m speaking in aggregate, across the system. I’m sure with enough digging, pretty much any individual in the province could be found to have drawn more from one system or another than they personally have proportionately contributed to. Just making a general point about public funded versus ‘user fees’.

I can stand paying for school, but they better give me the same voice as parents, into curriculums, etc.

The provincial ministry of education develops the curriculum, and individual school boards oversee delivery. So I think once we’ve each cast our vote, we’re all equally out of the picture.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

That was a hell of a lineup of senior union figures at the CUPE press conference this morning. I suspect there was a lot of behind the scenes communication between unions and government. Ford was cruising for a potential general strike, and he knew it. I’m curious to see how fast they legislate to rescind Bill 28.

This will still leave CUPE negotiating with the possibility of a legal strike should it become necessary. Noticeably, the OLRB stil has not released a decision. That may get set aside as moot. I suspect holding that decision was part of whatever happened between all the parties last night. It gave everyone wiggle room and more ability to save face.

From what I have seen, heard and read in my lunch bucket union town. The tide had turned. Unions were losing massive support and people were holding them responsible for their children, lost wages while babysitting, etc. They don't have the money to do it. The union made them spend meager monies, they don't have and I'll guarantee that will equate lost meals and heat, affecting the children once again. This province elected Ford to a majority for a reason. This was one of them. His priorities are mine and that was the children. I'd vote for him again in a heartbeat.

 

[Eaglelord17]

If Ford doesn’t get his act together fast I won’t vote for him again after this disaster. Much along the lines if the EA for the Convoy Protests, if anything less justification for this than the EA.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Ontarians express support for CUPE as education workers' strike continues, poll finds

As rallies continued across Ontario in support of education workers, new polling data shows more than half of respondents blame the Ontario government for Friday's strike by the Canadian Union of Public Employees.

ottawa.ctvnews.ca

I think this poll is a good indicator. I am of the same mind that I likely would be on the government’s side as far as negociating higher wages in this current climate but I think using the NWC has undermined their position.

I bet lots of people are willing to support strikes until it directly effects them.

If Ford doesn’t get his act together fast I won’t vote for him again after this disaster. Much along the lines if the EA for the Convoy Protests, if anything less justification for this than the EA.

Disaster might be hyperbolic. I'm not struggling to find child care or take time off work which is nice.

 

[mariomike]

I think he miscalculated the reaction and blinked. The union is likely going to be in a better position and you can bet other unions smell blood in the water.

If he blinked with school librarians, doubt he will pull that with Local 416 or the TPFFA. They remember when he was a councillor. FAFO

 

[Kilted]

In an odd way it looks like the notwithstanding clause worked in this case. Although, unfortunately those who broke the law will never be held to account for it.

 

[brihard]

From what I have seen, heard and read in my lunch bucket union town. The tide had turned. Unions were losing massive support and people were holding them responsible for their children, lost wages while babysitting, etc. They don't have the money to do it. The union made them spend meager monies, they don't have and I'll guarantee that will equate lost meals and heat, affecting the children once again. This province elected Ford to a majority for a reason. This was one of them. His priorities are mine and that was the children. I'd vote for him again in a heartbeat.

In an odd way it looks like the notwithstanding clause worked in this case. Although, unfortunately those who broke the law will never be held to account for it.

Can’t say I agree much with this. With support from other unions, CUPE established a position of strength. They’ve lost nothing here and Ford is completely backing down. Bill 28 is to be repealed on Monday. That means no contract is imposed, they go back to the table, the Notwithstanding Clause is out of play, and the union still has a right and mandate to strike on five days’ notice. The province has learned a very hard limit to how far it can push organized labour. There isn’t even - and apparently won’t be - an OLRB decision on the strike, so there is no ruling that the strike was illegal, and no finding that the union broke the law.

This pushes everything back to the bargaining table, with the province very clearly on notice that they must bargain in good faith and that the union will not be pushed around unduly.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Can’t say I agree much with this. With support from other unions, CUPE established a position of strength. They’ve lost nothing here and Ford is completely backing down. Bill 28 is to be repealed on Monday. That means no contract is imposed, they go back to the table, the Notwithstanding Clause is out of play, and the union still has a right and mandate to strike on five days’ notice. The province has learned a very hard limit to how far it can push organized labour. There isn’t even - and apparently won’t be - an OLRB decision on the strike, so there is no ruling that the strike was illegal, and no finding that the union broke the law.

This pushes everything back to the bargaining table, with the province very clearly on notice that they must bargain in good faith and that the union will not be pushed around unduly.

I think for most people it was clear this was what the ON government should have done in the first place.

Legislation doesn't get drafted overnight, doubt they had any real intention of bargaining given how fast they pulled the trigger on having bill 28 tabled.

 

[brihard]

I think for most people it was clear this was what the ON government should have done in the first place.

Legislation doesn't get drafted overnight, doubt they had any real intention of bargaining given how fast they pulled the trigger on having bill 28 tabled.

Yup. The province made probably the best possible call to climb out of the dumpster fire they stoked. This is as close to a mulligan as they can get. Also, threatening that you won’t bargain unless a strike is off the table is a breach of the duty to bargain in good faith. Bill 28 tried to circumvent that using the NWC, but CUPE defeated that politically before it had to be fought legally.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If Ford doesn’t get his act together fast I won’t vote for him again after this disaster. Much along the lines if the EA for the Convoy Protests, if anything less justification for this than the EA.

For taking care of the children as his first priority. He has my vote right now.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If he blinked with school librarians, doubt he will pull that with Local 416 or the TPFFA. They remember when he was a councillor. FAFO

What makes you think he blinked?

 

[mariomike]

What makes you think he blinked?

I think he miscalculated the reaction and blinked.

I was ordered not to engage with you.

I was replying to Remius. Take it up with him.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Can’t say I agree much with this. With support from other unions, CUPE established a position of strength. They’ve lost nothing here and Ford is completely backing down. Bill 28 is to be repealed on Monday. That means no contract is imposed, they go back

Apparently, not all unions are enamored with CUPE. The unions that supported him during election didn't. Perhaps it was the other PS unions and the CAW. The unions mentioned in the article are massive in comparison.

What happened to solidarity?​

The International Brotherhood of Boilermakers has come out in support of the Conservatives. So has the Laborer’s International Union of North America, and the International Union of Painters and Allied Trades, and the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. Probably more. These unions are in support of a government that passed Bill 124, wage suppression legislation for fellow labour unionists that work in public sector jobs, particularly in health care. This is especially galling in the current environment, where the toll of COVID-19 on health-care workers, particularly nurses, has been catastrophic. I can’t help but go to that place where I see that the “brotherhood” is blind to the problems their female-dominated unionists face. Or maybe it’s the leader of the NDP they feel alienated from, being a woman and all. Because it’s an obvious analysis doesn’t make it impossible.

Complete article here. I don't care anything about the authors agenda.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

For sure- I’m speaking in aggregate, across the system. I’m sure with enough digging, pretty much any individual in the province could be found to have drawn more from one system or another than they personally have proportionately contributed to. Just making a general point about public funded versus ‘user fees’.



The provincial ministry of education develops the curriculum, and individual school boards oversee delivery. So I think once we’ve each cast our vote, we’re all equally out of the picture.

So your saying Ford allowed CRT and trans reading sessions in the curriculum?

 

[Remius]

Apparently, not all unions are enamored with CUPE. The unions that supported him during election didn't. Perhaps it was the other PS unions and the CAW. The unions mentioned in the article are massive in comparison.

What happened to solidarity?​

The International Brotherhood of Boilermakers has come out in support of the Conservatives. So has the Laborer’s International Union of North America, and the International Union of Painters and Allied Trades, and the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. Probably more. These unions are in support of a government that passed Bill 124, wage suppression legislation for fellow labour unionists that work in public sector jobs, particularly in health care. This is especially galling in the current environment, where the toll of COVID-19 on health-care workers, particularly nurses, has been catastrophic. I can’t help but go to that place where I see that the “brotherhood” is blind to the problems their female-dominated unionists face. Or maybe it’s the leader of the NDP they feel alienated from, being a woman and all. Because it’s an obvious analysis doesn’t make it impossible.

Complete article here. I don't care anything about the writers agenda. Just clarifying.

And all seven that’s endorsed him during the election aren’t too keen on what he did…

Five More Unions That Endorsed Doug Ford Are Now Condemning Ford’s Attack On Workers’ Rights

‘Collective bargaining is a fundamental right of working people’

pressprogress.ca

Ford managed to successfully split the union vote last election. But with this they seem pretty united.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

And all seven that’s endorsed him during the election aren’t too keen on what he did…

Five More Unions That Endorsed Doug Ford Are Now Condemning Ford’s Attack On Workers’ Rights

‘Collective bargaining is a fundamental right of working people’

pressprogress.ca

Ford managed to successfully split the union vote last election. But with this they seem pretty united.

Mea culpa. Missed the date in the Spectator story.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

The leaders are....they have to be on this....memberships?.....we'll never know.

But someone is liking this whole scenario judging by CP 24 tonight that said Mr Fords polls have gone up.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I'm getting wires crossed and didn't want get dragged back in, but I did.

The main thing being. The Kids Are Alright. ( I think there's a song in there somewhere).

 

[brihard]

I'm getting wires crossed and didn't want get dragged back in, but I did.

The main thing being. The Kids Are Alright. ( I think there's a song in there somewhere).

Dismal as it is, I prefer The Offspring’s version.