Raytheon launches Stinger missile from Javelin launcher

Raytheon has successfully demonstrated firing a Stinger missile from a Javelin Lightweight Command Launch Unit (LWCLU) in a test that saw the missile engage and defeat an uncrewed aerial vehicle (UAV).

This could have potential for the CF. In addition to hand-held Javelin launchers they are also found mounted on various Remote Weapon Stations. This could see both an ATGM and short range GBAD solution for both dismounted troops and light vehicles (TAPV?) using a single launch unit.

 

[childs56]

Each Battalion sized entity should have a AD troop.
AD Regiment should be a stand alone Regiment Responsible for the overall AD plan of the Brigade, training of the Brigade. And long range AD coverage.

Each Battalion should have their own AD Troop for short to medium range protection. Each Platoon sized should have short range AD assets available immediately.
If you are with a LAV battalion then you get a LAV SHORAD system, with a man potable system.

The Avenger style system might be pretty effective against these smaller sized drones attacking Company sized assets. I think we the ADATS turrets are still in storage. Maybe dust those off as a basis and modernize them a bit and mount them on a LAV chassis and put them to work.

Canada has a few companies who specialize in Counter drone systems. Detecting, jamming and can have systems to neutralize the threat added. I would hire those companies and have them build us a good program and process. Then integrate it into our current equipment.

I am not sure what the elevation of a LAV 25mm can go to, but maybe mount a stinger system to the turret, modify the max elevation of the gun, add a radar system and add air burst ammo to the drum. Use it for drone defence.

Someone is going to say you cant do that, or its just not that easy to mount a radar, integrate a control system into the turret to fire a missile and make the gun elevation go higher.
Drill a hole, run wires, install a bigger generator/ alternator, run a few more wires. Zip ties work for temporary mounting of screens, wires etc. Cut a hole, add a actuator and voila you have a working model to build upon.
(or give the parts to the Ukrainians/ Poland and ask them to build it, they seem to be able to make things work in quick order).

 

[KevinB]

Each Battalion sized entity should have a AD troop.
AD Regiment should be a stand alone Regiment Responsible for the overall AD plan of the Brigade, training of the Brigade. And long range AD coverage.

Each Battalion should have their own AD Troop for short to medium range protection. Each Platoon sized should have short range AD assets available immediately.
If you are with a LAV battalion then you get a LAV SHORAD system, with a man potable system.

The Avenger style system might be pretty effective against these smaller sized drones attacking Company sized assets. I think we the ADATS turrets are still in storage. Maybe dust those off as a basis and modernize them a bit and mount them on a LAV chassis and put them to work.

Canada has a few companies who specialize in Counter drone systems. Detecting, jamming and can have systems to neutralize the threat added. I would hire those companies and have them build us a good program and process. Then integrate it into our current equipment.

I am not sure what the elevation of a LAV 25mm can go to, but maybe mount a stinger system to the turret, modify the max elevation of the gun, add a radar system and add air burst ammo to the drum. Use it for drone defence.

Someone is going to say you cant do that, or its just not that easy to mount a radar, integrate a control system into the turret to fire a missile and make the gun elevation go higher.
Drill a hole, run wires, install a bigger generator/ alternator, run a few more wires. Zip ties work for temporary mounting of screens, wires etc. Cut a hole, add a actuator and voila you have a working model to build upon.
(or give the parts to the Ukrainians/ Poland and ask them to build it, they seem to be able to make things work in quick order).

Down here we have a course that 11B’s and 19D’s can take for use of the Stinger.

They are to be deployed in a pair / platoon, ans are on the ADAM cell net for coordinating of weapon states and threat engagement.

The Divisions have an AD Bde attached as required (currently we don’t have enough AD Bde’s to dedicate to each DIV, so it’s a mission/ threat task).

The AD Bde at Division parses out platoons of M medium and Short Range AD to support the maneuver subunits (the DIV is a maneuver unit), LORAD/THAAD cover static zones and are interlinked.

Avenger and M/SHORAD LAV are fairly effective C-UAS systems as well.

 

[FJAG]

Each Battalion sized entity should have a AD troop.
AD Regiment should be a stand alone Regiment Responsible for the overall AD plan of the Brigade, training of the Brigade. And long range AD coverage.

Each Battalion should have their own AD Troop for short to medium range protection. Each Platoon sized should have short range AD assets available immediately.
If you are with a LAV battalion then you get a LAV SHORAD system, with a man potable system.

There are two schools of thought on air defence

On the one hand there is the school that allocates air defence assets right down to the platoon. It facilitates integration of the asset during training but makes it virtually impossible to reallocate based on threat.

The other groups air defence but on a scale of down to the platoon level. It facilitates regrouping assets based on threat but makes it more difficult to integrate into manoeuvre elements during training and even operations.

There are, of course, solutions that are a compromise. The less money that you have (or are prepared) to spend on air defence as a nation and the smaller the force is, the more likely it is to follow the second solution.

 

[Kirkhill]

There are two schools of thought on air defence

On the one hand there is the school that allocates air defence assets right down to the platoon. It facilitates integration of the asset during training but makes it virtually impossible to reallocate based on threat.

The other groups air defence but on a scale of down to the platoon level. It facilitates regrouping assets based on threat but makes it more difficult to integrate into manoeuvre elements during training and even operations.

There are, of course, solutions that are a compromise. The less money that you have (or are prepared) to spend on air defence as a nation and the smaller the force is, the more likely it is to follow the second solution.

And now we are back looking at gun based light anti-aircraft systems because of the proliferation of cheap, low and slow threats. Which, in my view argues for revisiting the MG/DFS/AD platoons. And the reason people are looking at the M230/XM914 as a compromise between the 12.7mm M2, which was popular in the LAA role, the 40 mm GMG/AGLs.

 

[markppcli]

Each Battalion sized entity should have a AD troop.
AD Regiment should be a stand alone Regiment Responsible for the overall AD plan of the Brigade, training of the Brigade. And long range AD coverage.

Each Battalion should have their own AD Troop for short to medium range protection. Each Platoon sized should have short range AD assets available immediately.
If you are with a LAV battalion then you get a LAV SHORAD system, with a man potable system.

The Avenger style system might be pretty effective against these smaller sized drones attacking Company sized assets. I think we the ADATS turrets are still in storage. Maybe dust those off as a basis and modernize them a bit and mount them on a LAV chassis and put them to work.

Canada has a few companies who specialize in Counter drone systems. Detecting, jamming and can have systems to neutralize the threat added. I would hire those companies and have them build us a good program and process. Then integrate it into our current equipment.

I am not sure what the elevation of a LAV 25mm can go to, but maybe mount a stinger system to the turret, modify the max elevation of the gun, add a radar system and add air burst ammo to the drum. Use it for drone defence.

Someone is going to say you cant do that, or its just not that easy to mount a radar, integrate a control system into the turret to fire a missile and make the gun elevation go higher.
Drill a hole, run wires, install a bigger generator/ alternator, run a few more wires. Zip ties work for temporary mounting of screens, wires etc. Cut a hole, add a actuator and voila you have a working model to build upon.
(or give the parts to the Ukrainians/ Poland and ask them to build it, they seem to be able to make things work in quick order).

Well the elevation is limited by the space occupied by the gun itself, ie when it hits max elevation it’s just about touching the turret ring. How exactly one would drill and hole and zip tie and actuator to adjust that I’m not sure. The LAV can use a radar mount, in the OPV variant at least. It’s just a ground radar system and much like everything g else once you add to the vehicle, something else has to give. In that case it’s more internal space being occupied by screens and controls.


I think though that in general I don’t disagree, but would, given the option, mount avenger turrets to TAPV hulls and have something like 1 per company. Then each platoon can be assigned a launcher to establish a point defence system. Every platoon should have a hammer and that should be the job of the air sentry.


I sincerely hope we look for some kind of gun based air defence, but we’ll see.

 

[KevinB]

I lost a long reply into the web.

To me for a LaV based army like Canada, the Maneuver SHORAD LAV should be a no brainer, it has both cannon and missile capabilities, as well as the SHORAD DE LAV for a direct energy system.

Avenger, I don’t see as good option for Canada, as even though the new digital fire control slew to cue can take networked fire control data, the M3 ‘fast fire’ .50 isn’t a great gun system for C-UAS or AD, as it requires direct hits due to the ammunition options. A C-UAS or AD gun system generally has a fragmentation proximity round - the .50 can’t offer that and API-T is pretty much the best option for it. Yes it could go on the TAVP, which actually could find a role for that POS, but I would prefer a purpose built system - avoid TAPV entirely — use the LAV for the LAV and use the Avenger on a MRZR for Light Force AD/C-UAS, as you aren’t going to get a cannon that is effective on a very light vehicle.