RCN Anti Drone Weapon

[Stoker]

Looks like the RCN wants to make an example of the micro drones buzzing the dockyards.

 

[Halifax Tar]

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

What is the ANCU? Is that NTOGs latest nickname?

 

[dimsum]

It will be a struggle. Competing interests tells me this has trouble getting off the ground. My former boss was put in charge of the SCTF and everyone was all hot and horny until the cheque came due.

The difference being that without that capability in place, Canada doesn’t get to station F-35s, P-8s, CQ-9s, or AEGIS warships in Canada. And while I’m totally cool with Singapore-style permanent OUTCAN bases for those, the cost to post people and keep stuff in allied countries would probably break our bank faster than the Security Forces construct.

So the “competing interests” bit gets whittled down a bit when the big ticket items are contingent on the…uh…contingent.

But back to the RCN C-UAS gun - that is hopefully the last-tier option. It seems to me essentially a shotgun without the kinetic shot.

 

[quadrapiper]

The difference being that without that capability in place, Canada doesn’t get to station F-35s, P-8s, CQ-9s, or AEGIS warships in Canada. And while I’m totally cool with Singapore-style permanent OUTCAN bases for those, the cost to post people and keep stuff in allied countries would probably break our bank faster than the Security Forces construct.

So the “competing interests” bit gets whittled down a bit when the big ticket items are contingent on the…uh…contingent.

But back to the RCN C-UAS gun - that is hopefully the last-tier option. It seems to me essentially a shotgun without the kinetic shot.

Wonder if there's anything like this being looked at in a permanent mount for the dockyards and airfields, and any Army concentrations of equivalent value?

 

[dimsum]

Wonder if there's anything like this being looked at in a permanent mount for the dockyards and airfields, and any Army concentrations of equivalent value?

Let’s just say there are different options for fixed sites.

 

[dapaterson]

Let’s just say there are different options for fixed sites.

Commissionaire with a fly swatter?

 

[Navy_Pete]

What is the ANCU? Is that NTOGs latest nickname?

Apparently. I like how these guys, who know nothing about combat survivability of warships just make shit up for equipment without actually talking to anyone. There is literally a NATO working group on this kind of things for ships that talks with other NATO working groups that work in that kind of thing. Other navies have done trials with success and actually done things in operations against drones, that don't look like some kind of 80s robocop weapon.

For surface drones there are some legitimate conversations about trying out things like the old anti torpedo chain wall things (it's been a long day, sorry) to get some standoff distance from the hull.

ANCU - Canada.ca

This whole MTOG thing is silly, when we can't even get ROEs beyond self defence; it's a solution looking for a problem, other than cool twitter photos.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Apparently. I like how these guys, who know nothing about combat survivability of warships just make shit up for equipment without actually talking to anyone. There is literally a NATO working group on this kind of things for ships that talks with other NATO working groups that work in that kind of thing. Other navies have done trials with success and actually done things in operations against drones, that don't look like some kind of 80s robocop weapon.

For surface drones there are some legitimate conversations about trying out things like the old anti torpedo chain wall things (it's been a long day, sorry) to get some standoff distance from the hull.

ANCU - Canada.ca

This whole MTOG thing is silly, when we can't even get ROEs beyond self defence; it's a solution looking for a problem, other than cool twitter photos.

Those drone guns are also completely useless and performed extremely poorly. They are also obsolete given that FPVs are now wire guided and immune to soft kill measures. You would be better off with a 12 gauge shotgun with birdshot, it would also be cheaper.

 

[Kirkhill]

Those drone guns are also completely useless and performed extremely poorly. They are also obsolete given that FPVs are now wire guided and immune to soft kill measures. You would be better off with a 12 gauge shotgun with birdshot, it would also be cheaper.

Also, on the Fight Today stands, and representing some of the most recent upgrades in the Army’s infantry anti-drone capabilities, were members of 3 Parachute Regiment. They were on site demonstrating the new drone tracking 4 x Smash Sight. The new sighting system that attaches to the standard issued SA80 individual weapon that effectively converts it into a highly accurate drone hunter that has been further enhanced by combining it with a 4 x magnifying capability.

https://www.army.mod.uk/news/gbad-expo-24-showcasing-air-defence-of-today-and-tomorrow/

Airborne soldiers do some smart shooting with new sight that helps smash drones

Members of 16 Air Assault Brigade have been using the SmartShooter Smash - a fire control system that conserves ammo and guarantees a hit.

www.forcesnews.com

 

[Kirkhill]

A bigger fly swatter....

RapidRanger

The RapidRanger, the Mobile Integrated Defence, is a unique lightweight, vehicle based, highly automated system capable of delivering a rapid reaction response to threats from the air or the ground.

www.thalesgroup.com

Beam riders seem to be harder to counter. And the system is functional against air and surface targets.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Those drone guns are also completely useless and performed extremely poorly. They are also obsolete given that FPVs are now wire guided and immune to soft kill measures. You would be better off with a 12 gauge shotgun with birdshot, it would also be cheaper.

This has legitimately been used in an allied navy to get clay shooting practice targets and some high end shotguns meant for competition shooting or something on board, and apparently worked a treat. Water cannons are also another easy and cheap option just are hard to adjust the aim, but have surprising range.

But no one bothered asking any of the boffins on Nato WGs with other boffins that sit around and think about these things for a living, because none of the solutions are tacticool I guess.

We should have gone with FF monitors in matte black with bonus raybans I guess.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Those drone guns are also completely useless and performed extremely poorly. They are also obsolete given that FPVs are now wire guided and immune to soft kill measures. You would be better off with a 12 gauge shotgun with birdshot, it would also be cheaper.

Only a fraction of drones are wire guided and at the moment are all used in Ukraine. As long as the cost of the anti-drone electronic gun is not to high, get them and several shotguns.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Only a fraction of drones are wire guided and at the moment are all used in Ukraine. As long as the cost of the anti-drone electronic gun is not to high, get them and several shotguns.

On the ship side, they are testing out high end lasers as an anti drone weapon that you don't have to worry about running out of ammo, and a lot more powerful than these portable units.

Canada becomes fifth country to test above the horizon laser technology to counter drones

They have much higher effective range and will work against bigger drones than you can get at radioshack.

One thing that is a challenge in talking about drones is that there is a huge range in size and capabilities; on the low end you can but something cheap off amazon and have a small charge, on the high end you have something like the Reaper that is the size of a big plane that carries it's own payload.

On the surface and subsurface it's similar, and at a certain point you are treating them the same as a missile or torpedo. The big difference is it's now less risky for someone to swarm you effectively from further away and overwhelm your countermeasures and defences, so now we're circling back to increasing our DC capability and looking at things like armour plating. You can't automate a lot of this effectively, so it runs counter to the push to reduce crews over the last 40 years. It's a challenging problem.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Well this sounds like a hunting scope that was shown at SHOT 5 or so years ago. If it meets even 50% of the claims, seems like a good idea.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Those drone guns are also completely useless and performed extremely poorly. They are also obsolete given that FPVs are now wire guided and immune to soft kill measures. You would be better off with a 12 gauge shotgun with birdshot, it would also be cheaper.

Or even better...

 

[Underway]

On the surface and subsurface it's similar, and at a certain point you are treating them the same as a missile or torpedo. The big difference is it's now less risky for someone to swarm you effectively from further away and overwhelm your countermeasures and defences, so now we're circling back to increasing our DC capability and looking at things like armour plating. You can't automate a lot of this effectively, so it runs counter to the push to reduce crews over the last 40 years. It's a challenging problem.

Interesting that armour plating might be a thing again. The Germans have kevlar panels that they can install in some places inside their ships (magazines and such). With modern armour technology there are likely some very interesting options.

As far as crews, the US and French have both remarked that crew sizes need to be large. The French in particular stated that they bet on smaller crews and the Red Sea showed them that they bet wrong. Mainly because of exhaustion while being on station for long periods of time.

So what this tells me is that to counter drones ships might get bigger and heavier, to carry the armour and have more crew. Thats an interesting thought experiment.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Interesting that armour plating might be a thing again. The Germans have kevlar panels that they can install in some places inside their ships (magazines and such). With modern armour technology there are likely some very interesting options.

As far as crews, the US and French have both remarked that crew sizes need to be large. The French in particular stated that they bet on smaller crews and the Red Sea showed them that they bet wrong. Mainly because of exhaustion while being on station for long periods of time.

So what this tells me is that to counter drones ships might get bigger and heavier, to carry the armour and have more crew. Thats an interesting thought experiment.

So, Battleship New Jersey sails again?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Not what you call a "high tech cruise missile"

 

[Colin Parkinson]

So, Battleship New Jersey sails again?

More like HMS Sussex