Re: Canadian Forces : The US Perspective

[GO!!!]

aesop - you are exactly right.

The US public as a group, regard Canada's decision not to go to war in Iraq as letting the US do the heavy lifting at best, and cowardice at the worst.

Wearing a t-shirt from a "allied" nation that stands idly by while hundreds of US troops are maimed and killed will not generate much goodwill.

I should have been more clear.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

GO!! and aesop081:

I see your point regarding the t-shirts, but it has been my experience (one full tour with the Americans, IRF(L) HQ, SETAF validation and six US exercises) that the US public - in general - is only dimly aware of what Canada is or is not doing - FOX News aside.  Most, even in the military, are quite surprised to find that we're not in Iraq.  Wearing a Canadian Army t-shirt is unlikely to attract politically motivated attention.  Rather, I suspect the "foreign" aspect came into play a tad - or maybe a few people were acting like a**es...

My perspective is thus:

I have never had a single negative comment from an American citizen about the CF in any context, military or otherwise.  On the military side, I have had an American officer break down crying, thanking Canada for helping out (this was in 2002 and he was from New York), Marines coming up to shake my hand in Kabul and tons of war stories about Canadians they've met on various operations:

"I used to think Canada had a big army and that you guys were everywhere.  Then I realized - it's the same guys every time!" (25th ID Major, Bagram 2005)

The Major was obviously joking, but he'd been in Somalia and worked with us there, as well as in the Balkans and the Gulf.  We're quite highly thought of by those with whom we have served alongside with.  The remainder who haven't seen many Canadians have been universally glad to see us there - even in tiny numbers and even while "avoiding" Iraq.  There might be jokes ("Canada HAS an army?") but they're invariably good-natured.

In my experience, Americans tend to equate Iraq and Afghanistan and there is very little emotional difference between the two for them.  I personally received an amazing reception in Ramstein in January - all because I was coming from (and returning to) "down range".

Finally, I will always remember staggering off the Airbus for an unscheduled stop in Keflavik Iceland after 20+ hours redeploying in February, only to be met by the USO Auxiliary, complete with snacks, gifts, music, "welcome home" posters and about 50 clapping, cheering people.  All at zero notice on a stormy Saturday night.  All but two of the people there were Americans, including the station commander.

Sorry for the war stories, but this pushes one of my buttons a tad.

Cheers,

Teddy

 

[aesop081]

GO!! and aesop081:

I see your point regarding the t-shirts, but it has been my experience (one full tour with the Americans, IRF(L) HQ, SETAF validation and six US exercises) that the US public - in general - is only dimly aware of what Canada is or is not doing - FOX News aside.   Most, even in the military, are quite surprised to find that we're not in Iraq.   Wearing a Canadian Army t-shirt is unlikely to attract politically motivated attention.   Rather, I suspect the "foreign" aspect came into play a tad - or maybe a few people were acting like a**es...

My perspective is thus:

I have never had a single negative comment from an American citizen about the CF in any context, military or otherwise.   On the military side, I have had an American officer break down crying, thanking Canada for helping out (this was in 2002 and he was from New York), Marines coming up to shake my hand in Kabul and tons of war stories about Canadians they've met on various operations:

"I used to think Canada had a big army and that you guys were everywhere.   Then I realized - it's the same guys every time!" (25th ID Major, Bagram 2005)

The Major was obviously joking, but he'd been in Somalia and worked with us there, as well as in the Balkans and the Gulf.   We're quite highly thought of by those with whom we have served alongside with.   The remainder who haven't seen many Canadians have been universally glad to see us there - even in tiny numbers and even while "avoiding" Iraq.   There might be jokes ("Canada HAS an army?") but they're invariably good-natured.

In my experience, Americans tend to equate Iraq and Afghanistan and there is very little emotional difference between the two for them.   I personally received an amazing reception in Ramstein in January - all because I was coming from (and returning to) "down range".

Finally, I will always remember staggering off the Airbus for an unscheduled stop in Keflavik Iceland after 20+ hours redeploying in February, only to be met by the USO Auxiliary, complete with snacks, gifts, music, "welcome home" posters and about 50 clapping, cheering people.   All at zero notice on a stormy Saturday night.   All but two of the people there were Americans, including the station commander.

Sorry for the war stories, but this pushes one of my buttons a tad.

Cheers,

Teddy

Teddy Ruxpin,

agree with you on all counts.  I went to the states on exchange at USAES after the war in Iraq started and i was well received and no mention was ever made of our non-participation in Iraq.  What i was doing was sumizing as to what might have cause the less than flattering comments described earlier.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Of course, and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise...You and GO!! could well be correct.

The "pushing my buttons" comment was directed at the original theory (if I can call it that) that Americans harbour some resentment towards the CF in general.

 

[GO!!!]

Teddy,

While I agree with your feelings on the treatment that we recieve from the uniformed side of the US, I have personally never had a bad one!my experiences have been somewhat more subdued with the public, especially in the area around Fort Drum, where I have many relatives. The more reasonable ones are willing to seperate the troops from the politics, but the reaction is invariably one in which we are seen as freeloading cowards.

I can totally understand the more ignorant responses that are recieved from the less educated in some areas, but I advocate simply not bringing the fact that I am Canadian to light, as opposed to either arguing, or getting into a showdown over who is "right".

In regards to certain individuals feeling the need to advertise their nationality and affiliation when in the US, my mother in law had her windows punched out of her car on two occasions in NY state when Canada neglected to participate in Iraq. Feelings run high when there is talk of war. She got a "supporting our troops" magnet and a US flag for the back, and it never happened again. Go figure.

I guess the moral of the story for Lost is that if you want to be noticed, you probably will be, just maybe not in a positive manner.

Cheers

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

In regards to certain individuals feeling the need to advertise their nationality and affiliation when in the US, my mother in law had her windows punched out of her car on two occasions in NY state when Canada neglected to participate in Iraq. Feelings run high when there is talk of war. She got a "supporting our troops" magnet and a US flag for the back, and it never happened again. Go figure.

Bloody hell... 

I'll freely admit that my experience hasn't been with US civvys (not for years anyway).  If that's the case, being the "grey man" - as you suggest - is certainly called for!

 

[Spr.Earl]

Well Teddy I'll give you an update on American Civie and Mli. attitude in regards to the CF.

Just this last Feb. I was down in Florida at Tyndal AFB on a Air Field Post Attack Recovery Ex.
There was only 3 Army Eng.'s there and I was one of the three,we were there for our usual boom boom's and other odds and sod's,the U.S. Mil. pers excepted all of us with open arm's and as Mil. Pers. do "were have you been and so on".Many of the U.S. Air Force had served in Bosnia,Kosovo, Afg.etc and we all had been in the same place at one time over the years and there was no animosity,as usual we beat them at their own game.

On the Civie side,our plane was late by a day to come home, so we were put up in a Hotel down the road,when we arrived all in our relish ,there was a convention of former U.S. P.O.W.'s from WWII,these were former Soldiers,Airmen,Sailor's,they stopped us shook our hand's and thanked us for being a good neighbour,it blew me away,here's these Vet's thanking me and others for being good neighbours I turned around and thanked them,they asked why?I told them I was born in England and if it was not for you and all the other Vets and those who died I may be wearing Leder Hosen now.
It blew this old Vet away,we hugged and thanked each other.

After a quick shower I yacked with a few for a few min. and I learned that it's the young and the red neck's who complain but over all I was told the U.S. repsect's our Military because we do so much with so little and are good at what we do and they know if it's just cause we will be along side.
Most of these Vets saw Iraq as another Viet Nam and disagreed with it but all supported the Troop's.

It was an eye opener for me that evening even if it was only about an hour I spoke with these Gent's and their Ladies.Oh here's the kicker the wanted to give us the left over cold cut's etc.,I told them go home with a dogie bag,the boy's are going out don't waste it,they had a good laugh and understood and just said stay out of trouble and wished us luck.

This was just this last Feb.

 

[Lerick]

well i didnt not insult anyone here...its my personnel opinion!i respect everyone here...i respect ur opinion ur experience and ur military status...it takes many opinions to make an opinion...

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Spr.Earl:  rather gratifying, isn't it?

This was just this last Feb.

My war stories were from this year as well...

 

[Armymedic]

well i didnt not insult anyone here...its my personnel opinion!i respect everyone here...i respect ur opinion ur experience and ur military status...it takes many opinions to make an opinion...

I think we should stop flaming the man and look at his comments from the perspective of what he is saying. Obviously there is a wide spread ignorance in regards to what we are doing in Afghanistan dispite the efforts of our PAF staffs. The Public should not be reacting with shock when our top general says our job may include having to kill people...cause, well duh, thats what we do.... And the media should not be picking up on what windbag MP is spouting either. So lets step back and educate the ignorant masses before flaming them...

As for the US Army, while they consider us lucky to have to only serve 6 months in what they consider a theater of war....they can not believe we do 12-18 month turn arounds. As one former active duty, now National Guard First Sgt put it...now wonder you guys are good, you've been everywhere, and seen it done.

 

[SemperFidelis]

I still think its hilarious that some ppl forget the meaning of ARMED forces .. ??? armymedic..well said

 

[reccecrewman]

Well one things for sure........... The US loves their Military.  The support those guys get from home is tremendous.  My hometown is a bordertown and every time I go there on leave, I go over the river to do some shopping and it never fails to amaze me that even in a town with an Army base nowhere close, there's STILL American flags waving on lawns & big SUPPORT OUR TROOPS signs all over the place.