Relationship Matter...Help Needed

[oink]

Hello everyone,

New member here....here is my story and what am going through right now. I joined the military 4yrs ago and I have a 4yr old with my wife. It seems of late, we have both come to realize after 10yrs of marriage that our interests and ways just aren't compatible. I am in Ontario by the way

I am up to the point now where I want a divorce, and I mentioned this to her the other day. I am currently paying the mortgage and car payment, along with other utilities. I don't want to turn this into a mess, just looking for a better way for the sake of our son (whom I plan to support and be there for).

My question to others who have been thru similar situations

1. Is there any military help legal wise ?
2. What is the wife entitled to?
3. Can I just put the house back on the market?
4. If she can't afford a lawyer, what happens?
5. anything else I should know?

I have no family support in this country, so nowhere for me to turn. Please be considerate in your replies, it's tough enough as it is now.

Please pm me instead if you will rather keep things private.

Thx

 

[newwifey]

Just suggestions from one who has been there (it took me longer to get divorced than I was married!!) 
I can't be specific for laws as mine was Alberta and civil, not military.

You've been together 10 years and have a child, have you both done everything you can to salvage this relationship?  Go to counselling, speak to your church.  There is help out there if you need and want it.  Not judging at all, but you should try to do all you can to save this, divorce it not only tough on the adults, it sucks for the kids. 

No matter how civil you think this will be, it won't go smooth.  But maybe you'll be lucky.  Depends how you proceed, as adults thinking things thru rationally or as teens throwing tantrums.

Whether you proceed with a divorce or not, she will be in your life forever, you share a child.  Be respectful of that as you proceed.  You loved her enough to marry her and have a child.  Love her enough to get through all this with your dignity in tact (both of you).

Wife is entitled to half.  Half of all the combined assets (including pensions) and half of the combined debts.  She is also entitled to spousal support (for a period of time) and child support plus a percentage of child expenses.
If you are both on the title, you both need to agree to listing and selling your home, you can't just do that on your own.
If she can't afford a lawyer, offer to pay it (altho the supports will assist in that I would think.)

Lawyers and divorce is REALLY expensive.  Don't haggle over $20, particularly when your lawyer is costing you $450 an hour!  Choose your battles and determine where it's really worth the expense!

Ottawa divorce has a superb forum that will address probably 99% of things you want to know.  There are some really good folks there and some fantastic posts.

 

[cupper]

Best piece of advice you are going to get:

Consult a lawyer.

 

[Pusser]

Wife is entitled to half.  Half of all the combined assets (including pensions) and half of the combined debts.  She is also entitled to spousal support (for a period of time) and child support plus a percentage of child expenses.

That's not entirely true, but it might be a good starting point.  Your lawyer will need to consult the Federal Pension Benefit Division Act (I think that's the right name).  Spousal support also depends on numerous factors (i.e. what if she makes more money).  Child support/expenses are also a matter of negotiation (although there are formulas that provide starting points).  The bottom line is a that there are many factors to consider and things can get very complicated.  GET A LAWYER SOONER RATHER THAN LATER!  Your local JAG office cannot represent you or provide legal advice in this, but they may be able to give you a referral.

 

[George Wallace]

Wife is entitled to half.  Half of all the combined assets (including pensions) ........

Wife is only entitled to half of a member's pension if she was married to him prior to his enrollment in the CF.  If she married him after he enrolled, she is only entitled to half of that portion of his pension covered during the period of their marriage.  Now, what if she is "Wife Number 3"?  What would she get then?    >

 

[Remius]

I went through this 6 years ago.  We have an 8 year old boy.  He was 2 when we split.  Luckily it went smoothly.  But my situation or anyone elses on here might not be the same.  The best advice someone here gave you is consult a lawyer.  He/she will walk you through the ins and outs and what you will face.  I won't comment on what anybody else has said here...just go talk to a real expert because you have to much at stake to rely on advice from a public forum.

 

[newwifey]

Child support is not negotiable.  You can consult the tables if you want to know how much you have to pay.
Section 7 expenses are determined based on income for both parents.  If you earn more, you'll pay more.  Only way you can pay less is if you have the child at least 40% of the time.

They've been married (I assume from original post) since he's been in, she's entitled to half of what he's got in pension.  (if you can afford it, pay her out instead)
I'm also guessing if the poster is concerned she can't afford a lawyer, he earns more.  However, if she earned more, he could request spousal support.  It does work two ways.

First wife, fifth wife, doesn't matter.  They are entitled to half the amount that accrued from the date of marriage to the date of separation.  No more.  Could negotiate less.

 

[George Wallace]

  They are entitled to half the amount that accrued from the date of marriage to the date of separation. 

Much better wording that originally posted.

 

[421_434_226]

I believe that the amount she is entitled to from your pension is transferred to a locked in financial product such as an RRSP that she can not touch until 65 yrs of age this is not an immediate cash payout.

 

[Occam]

I believe that the amount she is entitled to from your pension is transferred to a locked in financial product such as an RRSP that she can not touch until 65 yrs of age this is not an immediate cash payout.

Yeah, don't go there.  It's actually much, much more complicated than that and only an actuary could fully comprehend the formula for figuring out the lump sum your spouse gets.

Suffice it to say that on divorce, assets are subject to division.  CF pension is but one of the assets that can be divided.  It doesn't have to be included in the division, the CF member could avoid having their pension affected by negotiating a mutually agreeable similar asset to keep things equitable.  One's spouse might not be interested in an asset that they have to wait until 55 for, and even then they only receive an annuity from it - the funds cannot be withdrawn. 

Edit:  My ex dragon wife was willing to leave my CF pension alone if I was willing to give her cash so that she could reduce or eliminate the shared debt that she would have ended up with.  A lawyer would be able to advise as to what an "equitable" trade-off would be if you were to give cash up front in return for her waiving rights to a pension benefits division.

 

[oink]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. It seems from "our talk" yesterday, she is making it clear that she is not going to move out of the house and that I should. I told her that I'll no longer be able to pay the mortgage nor the car payment and am more than happy for the bank to take the house.

I did mention that we can either be adults about it and settle things amicably or we can go down the court route which will end up costing us both. I suggested going to MEDIATION to work out a separation agreement.

She also has teenage daughter from a previous relationship, which has put a strain on our relationship. She has custody and claims she receives alimony, but never once has she shown me payments, and instead getting me to pay for activities for her daughter.

Looks like I'll need a lawyer afterall and their fees are astronomical, with the ones have seen asking for a deposit of $3500

 

[Pusser]

I told her that I'll no longer be able to pay the mortgage nor the car payment and am more than happy for the bank to take the house.

Don't go there.  Nobody wins in a foreclosure.  The damage you can do to your credit can be substantial and long-lasting.  Ignoring things will not make them go away and will only cause you greater pain in the long run.  Talk to a lawyer.  It may be expensive, but it is money well-spent and will actually be cheaper in the end.

 

[GnyHwy]

She also has teenage daughter from a previous relationship, which has put a strain on our relationship. She has custody and claims she receives alimony, but never once has she shown me payments, and instead getting me to pay for activities for her daughter.

Tread lightly here, you may want to leave well enough alone.  You maybe responsible for her daughter as well.  If the daughter's father is paying child support currently, you may want to leave that be.  Because you have been the guardian of her daughter, you may now be responsible, and the actual father could be absolved.  I am not certain of this, and a lawyer will set you straight, but I have reason to believe this is true.

 

[Scott]

Bottom line, and it can be seen in the subtext here - like when people say, "I'm not sure..." is to follow the normal next line: "Contact a lawyer"

It is easy to feel better having said your piece on an internet forum. Fine, I feel for you. But do not think that the replies you get here will substitute for actual legal advice from one of those actual lawyers.

You get what you pay for...or you pay for not getting it now. Take your pick

 

[Jager]

Tread lightly here, you may want to leave well enough alone.  You maybe responsible for her daughter as well.  If the daughter's father is paying child support currently, you may want to leave that be.  Because you have been the guardian of her daughter, you may now be responsible, and the actual father could be absolved.  I am not certain of this, and a lawyer will set you straight, but I have reason to believe this is true.

Depending on the Judge and province it can go either way. In Alberta I have found that a Judge will not make a "step parent" financially responsible for a step child that has not been adopted. I know this from experience as I went thru this entire process in the last 6 Months and she had tried to make me pay child support for her teenage son from a past relationship. The judge that I had laughed at her, and stated quite clearly that there is no legal obligation for me to provide support for a child that is not biologically related nor adopted by me.

Though your millage could differ, I suggest contacting a Lawyer as they will be able to help you understand the rules and obligations in your situation.

As for the house, there are many routes that can be taken to deal with the Mortgage, selling, etc. Me personally I'm still dealing with this one, as she refuses to sell the house, yet doesn't live in it (we have renters, as she will not let me live in the house either.... funny that). I have to refile in the queens bench to have the court decide to either give her sole ownership of the house (and her $35000 lien) or to give me sole ownership of the house (and take the lien off that is in her name alone). Again I suggest talking to a lawyer, or do some serious reading on the rules and laws for divorce in the Provence that she lives in/you where married in/whatever. I suggest a 1 hour consult with a lawyer to sort out the basics at a minimum. I personally dealt with my own divorce without the use of a Lawyer, but I utilized several 1 hour consultations to get paperwork in order and to have all my questions answered.

 

[bridges]

A follow-up question, if I may, to those who've posted about pensions & spouses - if you've already retired & are receiving a pension when you get married for the first time, would your pension typically remain yours for life? 

Good luck to the OP, by the way - and I concur with the "consult a lawyer asap" advice.

 

[Pusser]

A follow-up question, if I may, to those who've posted about pensions & spouses - if you've already retired & are receiving a pension when you get married for the first time, would your pension typically remain yours for life? 

Good luck to the OP, by the way - and I concur with the "consult a lawyer asap" advice.

Your pension is yours until you die.  I honestly don't know what happens to your pension if you and your post-career spouse split up, but I would like to think that the spouse would have no claim on it because he/she had no part in earning it.  The CFSA has a "gold-digger" clause that denies survivor benefits to any spouse whom the recipient marries after age 60.

 

[bridges]

Your pension is yours until you die.  I honestly don't know what happens to your pension if you and your post-career spouse split up, but I would like to think that the spouse would have no claim on it because he/she had no part in earning it.  The CFSA has a "gold-digger" clause that denies survivor benefits to any spouse whom the recipient marries after age 60.

I was just wondering if the accrual is treated differently than the payout.  I'd like to think that, for someone who earned their CF pension entirely on their own (spouse-wise), they can at least rely on those payments remaining theirs in the long run - whatever may happen with a future marriage.

Interesting, about the so-called "gold-digger" clause ... although we have many pensioners younger than 60, so they'll just have to keep an eye out.     

 

[captloadie]

Would the pension not be seen as a form of income in the eyes of the court?

 

[Occam]

A follow-up question, if I may, to those who've posted about pensions & spouses - if you've already retired & are receiving a pension when you get married for the first time, would your pension typically remain yours for life? 

From http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/eppp-archive/100/201/301/tbs-sct/tb_manual-ef/Pubs_pol/hrpubs/Pensions/PBDA_e.html

Q. Can the member's pension benefits be divided if the member is receiving a retirement pension at the time of the division?

A. Yes. The member's pension benefits, including any present or future annuity, allowance or return of contributions, are subject to division regardless of whether or not benefits are being paid at the time of the division.

So, they would crunch the numbers, find out what the lump sum amount is worth to the spouse, pay them, and then immediately reduce the pensioner's monthly annuity by the appropriate amount.