Replacing the Subs

[Cloud Cover]

I don’t know how things are now, but the few times I’ve been on a submarine base with SSN’s, there was always a very large security force of Marines ( RM and USMC) who appear to have had their sense of humour surgically removed.
It seems to me the security precautions and related security infrastructure, intelligence, recruiting, training and proofing would require a lot of time, thought, planning, effort, co$t, and permanent operational execution. And who provides that since we don’t have a force of Marines> the Army? This seems far beyond the mandate of NTOG, if they even exist anymore.

 

[dimsum]

Fortunately, not being a SSN expert frees me up for wonderfully random option development

It would be a great opportunity for community building. There's a pretty motivated first nation there too, which might be keen to engage in economic development partnerships.

Port Alberni might be another option.

Alberni is a better option. I always thought that it had a ton of potential if someone were to develop the area - if nothing else than service industry to the West Island.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Alberni is a better option. I always thought that it had a ton of potential if someone were to develop the area - if nothing else than service industry to the West Island.

I kind of like that old highway, but then again I don’t like change.

The ferry ride from Alberni to Bamfield in the fall is one of the nicest journeys that this province has to offer. Bears on the shore, Orca and more in the water, beautiful, beautiful views.

 

[Kirkhill]

First US Navy Submarine Will Deploy with New UUV Capability this Year - Naval News

The US Navy has announced that it is set to deploy a torpedo-tube launch-and-recovery UUV capability onboard an operational submarine for the first time

www.navalnews.com

A new abbreviation - TTL&R

Torpedo Tube Launch & Recovery - 12.75" UUV launched from a 21" torpedo tube and recovered via the torpedo tube.

REMUS (vehicle) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Developed by Kongsberg of Norway and bought by Huntington Ingalls

REMUS 600​

US Navy sailors lower a REMUS 600 into the water during a mine countermeasures exercise
The midsized REMUS 600 was previously known as the REMUS 12.75, so called due to its 12.75-inch (32.4 cm) diameter. It was renamed to the 600 to correspond to the maximum depth at which it can operate (600m). It can travel at speeds of up to 5 knots (9.3 km/h) and has an endurance of up to 70 hours at its standard cruising speed of 3 knots (5.6 km/h).

A US Navy derivative of this platform designated Mk 18 Mod 2 Kingfish was manufactured from 2012 to 2023.<a

A total of 175 REMUS 600s were delivered to customers in the United States, United Kingdom, Australia and Japan.

We need lots of torpedo tubes.....

Subs, UUVs, AOPS, CSCs, etc.

 

[Underway]

We need lots of torpedo tubes.....

Subs, UUVs, AOPS, CSCs, etc.

I personally am not convinced by ship launched lightweight torps.

 

[Kirkhill]

I personally am not convinced by ship launched lightweight torps.

Why not standardize on 21" tubes for surface vessels as well?

I am guessing that lightweights are employed for commonality with the Air Det. But is there any reason why a heavy weight material handling system couldn't be rigged inboard? Especially with ships in the 6,000 to 10,000 tonne displacement range.

... or even in the XLUUVs being fielded now.

 

[Rainbow1910]

Why not standardize on 21" tubes for surface vessels as well?

I am guessing that lightweights are employed for commonality with the Air Det. But is there any reason why a heavy weight material handling system couldn't be rigged inboard? Especially with ships in the 6,000 to 10,000 tonne displacement range.

... or even in the XLUUVs being fielded now.

Because the lightweight torpedoes are only carried due to their interoperability with the ASW helicopter, their actual capabilities are quite limited to a last ditch weapon system however, it makes sense to have the launchers aboard as there is already magazines and handling equipment nearby to deal with them for helicopters.

21" torpedoes are significantly larger and heavier than their 12.75" counterparts.

Mark 48 torpedo - 1,700kg and 5.8m long

Mark 54 torpedo - 276kg and 2.72m long

In order to carry and launch these torpedoes from a ship, you'd need to enlarge all of the magazines, handling areas, handling equipment and launchers to store, fit, maintain, load and fire these larger torpedoes. This is cutting into space that could be better used elsewhere and now you would have two separate torpedo types aboard one vessel that aren't interchangeable. Heavyweight submarine launched torpedoes do not bring a reasonable enough capability to surface ships to justify the costs in space and weight that they require.

 

[MilEME09]

big news being dropped

https://twitter.com/x/status/1811114325215429086

 

[calculus]

big news being dropped

https://twitter.com/x/status/1811114325215429086

Nice catch. Further to this:

• Subs will be conventional not nuclear.
• There will be up to 12.
• Requirements include: stealth lethality persistence
• Arctic capable - extended range and endurance.

 

[suffolkowner]

Nice catch. Further to this:

• Subs will be conventional not nuclear.
• There will be up to 12.
• Requirements include: stealth lethality persistence
• Arctic capable - extended range and endurance.

this sounds like a lot of wishes to me. First 12? Thats a big program, a huge fleet.
Arctic capable? What does that mean? Has any diesel sub ever surfaced through 2m of ice? Extended range and endurance? Compared to what?
I'd be ecstatic if we got 5 or 6. Someone has to crew and maintain them. I'm leery of us adding any extra capabilities onto any ongoing build/design

 

[MilEME09]

Nice catch. Further to this:

• Subs will be conventional not nuclear.
• There will be up to 12.
• Requirements include: stealth lethality persistence
• Arctic capable - extended range and endurance.

Given how much South Korea has been lobbying, I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't a front runner just based on Range, and lethality. If the RFI states it has to be an existing design, that will kill most of the european proposals.

 

[YZT580]

Nice catch. Further to this:

• Subs will be conventional not nuclear.
• There will be up to 12.
• Requirements include: stealth lethality persistence
• Arctic capable - extended range and endurance.

'When is the first delivery and is the programme scheduled to be up and running before next October

 

[Infanteer]

• Requirements include: stealth lethality persistence

Stealth and lethality in a submarine...what a humdinger of a requirements definition....

 

[suffolkowner]

Stealth and lethality in a submarine...what a humdinger of a requirements definition....

we get torpedoes with ours!

Is there any known way of deciphering/confirming the range and endurance of diesel subs?

 

[MTShaw]

Press Release:

Through the Canadian Patrol Submarine Project (CPSP), Canada will acquire a larger, modernized submarine fleet to enable the Royal Canadian Navy to covertly detect and deter maritime threats, control our maritime approaches, project power and striking capability further from our shores, and project a persistent

Canada launching process to acquire up to 12 conventionally-powered submarines - Canada.ca

Canada is the country with the largest coastline in the world – an underwater surveillance capability is crucial to our security and sovereignty.

www.canada.ca

 

[Colin Parkinson]

this sounds like a lot of wishes to me. First 12? Thats a big program, a huge fleet.
Arctic capable? What does that mean? Has any diesel sub ever surfaced through 2m of ice? Extended range and endurance? Compared to what?
I'd be ecstatic if we got 5 or 6. Someone has to crew and maintain them. I'm leery of us adding any extra capabilities onto any ongoing build/design

Strengthened sail, protection for masts and periscope for surfacing through light pan ice and perhaps combining some of the newer battery tech with AIP? Likely a sub might accompany a AOP's with the AOP providing ice recon and ice/weather information to it.

 

[YZT580]

Press Release:

Through the Canadian Patrol Submarine Project (CPSP), Canada will acquire a larger, modernized submarine fleet to enable the Royal Canadian Navy to covertly detect and deter maritime threats, control our maritime approaches, project power and striking capability further from our shores, and project a persistent

Canada launching process to acquire up to 12 conventionally-powered submarines - Canada.ca

Canada is the country with the largest coastline in the world – an underwater surveillance capability is crucial to our security and sovereignty.

www.canada.ca

.

 

[brihard]

Think we’ll join Norway and Germany’s program for the 212s? Seems to tick the boxes.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1811120542050562425

 

[Rainbow1910]

Think we’ll join Norway and Germany’s program for the 212s? Seems to tick the boxes.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1811120542050562425

The Type 212CD seems like a good option however, my concern is the ability of the Germans to properly deliver boats to Canada on a reasonable timeframe considering the order for 212CD stands currently at 8 hulls.

 

[Maxman1]

Think we’ll join Norway and Germany’s program for the 212s? Seems to tick the boxes.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1811120542050562425

Or we could join The Netherlands and their purchase of Orka submarines (a variant of the French Shortfin-Barracuda).