Req : Possible Griffon Replacement

[SupersonicMax]

My take on it: 1 type for everything, for medium-size helos (i.e.: Heavy lift excluded):

UH-60 Black Hawk - Utility
SH-60 Sea Hawk - Ship-Borne
HH-60 Pave Hawk - (C?)SAR

1 Supply Chain
Common general training
Common Technicians
Proven Airframes

Convert the Griffons for Portage.

That's in my simple mind though...

 

[dapaterson]

Can we trade in the CF-18s used for ground attack for Herc gunships as well?  Common platform for air transport and for air to ground attack, common supply chain, common training, common technicians, proven airframes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_AC-130

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The difference being the multi-role helo 'makes sense' and could possibly work whereas your *idea* couldn't.

 

[dapaterson]

Proven ground attack aircraft (AC-130) vs developmental program with lots of cost and schedule overruns - the F35.

From a ground support perspective, I know which one work better...

>

 

[Quirky]

Proven ground attack aircraft (AC-130)

Ahh yes, those came in handy during the Libya campaign.

 

[Sf2]

My take on it: 1 type for everything, for medium-size helos (i.e.: Heavy lift excluded):

UH-60 Black Hawk - Utility
SH-60 Sea Hawk - Ship-Borne
HH-60 Pave Hawk - (C?)SAR

1 Supply Chain
Common general training
Common Technicians
Proven Airframes

Convert the Griffons for Portage.

That's in my simple mind though...

Canada is in no position to stand up a CSAR capability.

 

[Good2Golf]

In short, the Griffon may very well be 'replaced' with....a refreshed Griffon.

Some may recall when the H-90 was the preferred platform to replace the Twin Huey helicopter, prior to the Government's 1992 decision to buy the Griffon.  In retrospect, the Griffon procurement wasn't that bad a thing, as the Griffon substantively no less a machine than the Twin Huey and in many cases significantly more.  Most importantly, it reinforced the case for something more valuable to a Department than money...people.  With probably a fleet size of twice as many Griffons as we would have bought Blackhawks, the organization had to retain the people required to operate the Griffon fleet, even while other organizations within the CF were having forced reductions imposed upon them.

If one is looking for a practical/realistic 'replacement' for the Griffon, it may be a pragmatic, limited program to replace obsolescent components (old avionics, non-FADEC engines, etc...), and that's about it.  The actual replacement of the Griffon as an entire aircraft is likely not a realistic solution in these financially pressured times.  To refresh some systems on a 20-year old aircraft, yes. Whole new aircraft?  Unlikely.

:2c:

Regards
G2G

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I think the 412 is still in production? If so, we could do a slow moving replacement program, mid life low hour airframes in batches and slowly replace the higher hour ones with new versions.

 

[Zoomie]

Y model Duey? 

 

[Sf2]

Y model Duey?

Nope.  You'll see ours around 'till 2030 - albeit with some life-extension upgrades.  No Y's on the horizon.

 

[Good2Golf]

Zoomie: Like SF2 notes, probably a mild avionics refresh to leverage multi-function display-driven AMS and the FADEC engines, and that's it.  That would be a pragmatic allocation of taxpayers' dollars.  With the unrealistic expectations of "lift" (in the sense of more than just light utility lift) removed from the Griffon's principle repertoire, it should be able to be employed in a focused, tailored manner with greater supportability than it currently does sitting t a fifth of a century age with minimal mods.

Cheers
G2G

 

[Zoomie]

a mild avionics refresh

Maybe a glance at the 412CF that 3CFFTS uses currently - all the leg work has been done by the contractor.

 

[Good2Golf]

It's not bad, Zoomie. I've flown the Outlaw FSim and the AMS is nice, but the PFD is a smaller designated format (two stacked 4" displays), vice larger MFD-based, which might limit the operational flexibility (mapping, nav, , etc...) Definitely a move in the right direction, beyond 40's/50's era dials (ironically driven by dual 1553 buses and an AIRINC 429 bus).  A fourth channel on the AFCS would be nice...

 

[Fishbone Jones]

It's not bad, Zoomie. I've flown the Outlaw FSim and the AMS is nice, but the PFD is a smaller designated format (two stacked 4" displays), vice larger MFD-based, which might limit the operational flexibility (mapping, nav, , etc...) Definitely a move in the right direction, beyond 40's/50's era dials (ironically driven by dual 1553 buses and an AIRINC 429 bus).  A fourth channel on the AFCS would be nice...

I can drive a bus :christmas happy:

 

[GAP]

I can drive a bus :christmas happy:

a short bus?  ;D

 

[Fishbone Jones]

a short bus?  ;D

If need be

Buckle up yer helmets!

 

[SeaKingTacco]

It's not bad, Zoomie. I've flown the Outlaw FSim and the AMS is nice, but the PFD is a smaller designated format (two stacked 4" displays), vice larger MFD-based, which might limit the operational flexibility (mapping, nav, , etc...) Definitely a move in the right direction, beyond 40's/50's era dials (ironically driven by dual 1553 buses and an AIRINC 429 bus).  A fourth channel on the AFCS would be nice...

This 1553 bus of which you speak...'tis the devils talk.  It has no place in aviation.  Why, the next heresy you utter will no doubt be that dials are some how inferior to them new fangled telemuvision screens...or that a gyro can be solid state.  Impossible, I say! 

Can you tell how old an airplane I fly in?

 

[Good2Golf]

And one that doesn't even have an instrument 'T'!

 

[SeaKingTacco]

And one that doesn't even have an instrument 'T'!

We prefer a random pattern of instruments.  Forces pilots to scan.  None of this cockpit ergonomics nonsense for us.    :nod:

 

[SupersonicMax]

SF2:  That's why I put a question mark by the C.  Nonetheless, it could be a viable SAR platform, like it already is in the States.