RFT abolished?

[seadragon]

Here is my opinion as a recent RFT grad. 
I collapsed, gasping, 10 m short on the last pass for level 5.0 on my first espress test.  My recruiter never mentioned beep tests, just running levels (2.4 Km in a certain time which I had done at my house) and the strength stuff.  I picked myself back up and scored enough for exempt on the strength portion.  RFT/WFT is a great program.  The staff told us they had only had 3 people in 2 years NOT pass after the 90 days.  One of the guys in with me tripped at level 5.5.  After 4 weeks he ran an 8.5!  If he had been sent home for tripping what would have happened to him?  We started with 32 on our phase.  20 of us tested in 4 weeks and only 5 didn't pass!  We had 10 VR and 2 injured to get down to 20.  In another 4 weeks only one was left that had not passed and her Grad parade is next week. 

"The program do work".
 
I am still with 3 people I was in RFT with and we are still in good shape and passing our fitness tests.  I agree with the minimum standards they have in place, some of the people could not do a single push up!  I was told that the testing at the recruiter was stopped because people were passing there then failing immediately at BMQ.  I wish I could have had a try out beep test before.  It would have helped me prepare. 
After I passed I stayed on RFT for 10 more weeks.  My course had a definite starting date and I did not have time to complete BMQ. I met one fellow who failed his beep test because he thought he had to run a "6".  So he ran back and forth 6 times then stopped!  Once I spent time with him in the barracks and explained to him what to do he passed with an 8 after 2 weeks!  One person on my original group applied and was accepted by the CF.  His recruiter told him he would be going in a "few months".  He joined a gym to get in better shape BUT was called and told a few days later, you leave in 2 weeks!
When I left they were testing people every 2 weeks.  This gets people who are close back to BMQ ASAP which is a good thing.
No one has mentioned that you don't just workout on RFT.  You take MK classes, fitness and nutrition courses as well as some tough inspections (4 times a week).  All the people I knew who went on to BMQ told me RFT inspections were much tougher than BMQ and their staff were all impressed.
I was ashamed when I failed.  In my heart I really thought I was prepared but I was 10 m short.  I am very happy for my RFT time.  I love the CF and am proud everyday I put on the uniform and I am proud of the improvements I made on RFT.  This september I will get my oppurtunity to complete BMQ and will pass it easily thanks to my RFT training.

 

[armyvern]

I'm going to agree with this for the most part, we want motivated people that will take the initiative to get fit on their own time and dime.

However, I do think that the physical fitness issues in the CF run much deeper then RFT... proper examples of fitness need to be set at all levels, which is not currently the case.

She's meaning that there used to be a (minimum) standard to enrol in the CF; now there's NO standard to enrol in the CF . We simply take whatever (at  great cost to taxpayers) then hopefully have some CF members motivate them enough in RFT to get fit.

Personal motivation on their parts? None (in the majority of cases). Else they'd have got themselves fit before their BMQ/BOTP began - fuck this is the military after all. Surprise!! Really, - we (taxpayers) pay them to have others motivate them because they obviously weren't self-motivated enough to get themselves in shape prior to reporting for that BMQ/BOTP.

As for those serving who can't meet the minimum standard ... we've got QR&Os and DAODs to deal with them (much used around these parts). ICs, RWs, C&Ps ... the means are there to handle those who simply can't find the "self-motivation" - supervisors simply need to apply it.

... Hey, Cpl Bloggins, you failed your LFCPFT .. here's a big cup of IC applied-motivation for you. Sign here, and have a great day at remedial and your next round of work-ups. Off you go now; and, please do remember that it's an RW next time."

 

[armyvern]

didn't know i had to be qualified to know what harrassment is, i've had my share directed at me, and i never said anyone here is harrassing me or anyone else. but peoples opinions can be interpreted as being harrassment, it's just how someone looks at it. nowadays you have to watch what you say, stuff can be interpreted many ways. opinions are fine, but don't call RFT a drain or a waste of resources in the CF.

No, it's not just "how someone looks at it", but a whole lot of people seem to think that. There are actual criteria that must be met for something to constitute harassment. Not liking what someone's opinion is doesn't make it harassment because that opinion just may be the honest-to-gawd truth. I learned this on my HA & HI courses.

i hate myself for failing that test, i remind myself almost everyday. it keeps me going to keep my fitness levels up where they should be. but i don't need to be belittled by someone else because of it, and i have. even by instructors, whether they realized it or not.

Self-loathing sucks. It's not good for you. BUT, this is a perfect example of exactly why people should begin getting themselves into shape immediately after applying to the MILITARY and PRIOR to reporting for BMQ/BOTP. The standards (!!) are out there - CFRC advises that you will be tested on those minimal standards at the outset of your course ...

@beach_bum

there are people who only failed the express test by .5 on the run or because they tripped or their shoe lace came untied. hell i almost failed my second test in BMQ because i got a major cramp while doing my situps because of an injury.

Double knots cure that issue. Usually the PSP staff recommend it prior to beginning the shuttle run. A little prevention could be worth a pound of cure here. At no cost too.

You almost failed because you got a major cramp due to an injury? Did you check off that box on the XPress Test form that asks "Do you have any injuries that may prevent you from completing this test?" as a "yes" or as a "no"?? Just curious.

i'm not trying to pick fights here(even if that's how i come off as trying to do), just stating what i feel and trying to open some eyes on this whole RFT/WFT or whatever the hell it's called now issue. but hey i'm just a no hook private with very little experience in the CF. i'm just getting sick of trying to show people that RFT is a good thing for the CF, and it would be nice if those of us who have gone through it didn't get looked down upon by everyone else.

I realize that you're not trying to pick fights here, but please do remember that some of us are of the opinion that our old policy of "meeting a minimum standard fitness level in order to be enrolled into the CF in the first place" is better even than RFT and is also fiscally responsible, sane, common sense.

I predict a return to that old policy too --- as soon as TFA winds down and the need to "meet numbers" (no matter what) has passed.  (And I promise to buy Journeyman a beer when this occurs)

 

[lpfan55]

lpfan,

I have a question for you. The stated CF policy for RFT is that one is to be tested after 30 days, 60 days ( if required) and 90 days (if required). After 90 days, if the member cannot pass, he/she is to be released. How could you have been there 7 months ?

You are put on PRB. If the panel gives you another shot, you get the time alotted. Only for those who look like they are making progress. Plus 3 weeks of christmas leave.

 

[X-mo-1979]

You are put on PRB. If the panel gives you another shot, you get the time alotted. Only for those who look like they are making progress. Plus 3 weeks of christmas leave.

So what have you given the CF after 7 months of pay, rations and quarters?
How much progress have you made at home?

 

[lpfan55]

RFT was created because of a 'need' that was produced with the elimination of PT testing at the Recruiting phase.  CFRG created the problem;  CFLRS had to produce *something* to deal with it.  Enter RFT.

How do I know what the desired results of training are for CFLRS and the like?  Well, from spending 13'ish years as an instructor at various schools/units in the CF (the last of which was...you guessed it, CFLRS.  I was there as staff in B Div before you were set foot thru the Green Doors)

It was not an attack, just trying to spurr thought. I'm not saying your wrong but im not saying you're right. I'm just initiating thought. I'm sure you were an instructor.  Like I said, not attacking.

 

[lpfan55]

So what have you given the CF after 7 months of pay, rations and quarters?
How much progress have you made at home?

I've lost another twenty pounds, my situps are up by ten from 28 to 38, my handgrip has increased by a couple of pounds and I have noticed my cardio getting better. I've kept a keen interest in getting back into the CF. Why? Because that's where my heart is. Now yes, i may have dug myself into a hole for 18 years of my life, but guess what? I have the knowledge and the Know-how, to get my self out. So do other people consider me a failure?Yes. Do I consider myself a failure? NO. I have achieved things with the help from the CF I never though I was ever going to get. So in the end, as long as I can look in the mirror, and say i am giving it all I have, then who are you to try and gauge my progress? You may be a senior member, and I respect that, however you have no right to ask me what my progress is, even if you are trying to prove a point!

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I can see this moving into it's death throws. Nothing really new has been covered for the last few pages and it's starting to circle the drain. If you've got something new and groundbreaking, get it out right now. This is heading for a lock.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[armyvern]

I've lost another twenty pounds, my situps are up by ten from 28 to 38, my handgrip has increased by a couple of pounds and I have noticed my cardio getting better. I've kept a keen interest in getting back into the CF. Why? Because that's where my heart is. Now yes, i may have dug myself into a hole for 18 years of my life, but guess what? I have the knowledge and the Know-how, to get my self out. So do other people consider me a failure?Yes. Do I consider myself a failure? NO. I have achieved things with the help from the CF I never though I was ever going to get. So in the end, as long as I can look in the mirror, and say i am giving it all I have, then who are you to try and gauge my progress? You may be a senior member, and I respect that, however you have no right to ask me what my progress is, even if you are trying to prove a point!

I believe that you've now managed to find the self-motivation ... there's other people on this site who've found it too; there's never anything wrong with that. No one is slamming anyone who manages to get themselves into better shape.

It's just that it's more cost-effective (for the CF and the taxpayer) when people hopefully find that self-motivation prior to reporting for their course, not afterwards by relying on RFT to provide motivation for them.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Thanks Vern. I think that caps the whole thing off nicely.

We're done here.

Locked, with the usual caveats.

Milnet.ca Staff