RMC Officer Sues to Avoid Saluting, Toasting Queen?

[niner domestic]

My thoughts exactly OM.  I am extremely disappointed to see this kind of "academic" exposure from RMC.  I recall very fondly, the brilliant teaching faculty RMC has, and has had.  I find I am reading more papers and articles on personal agenda topics from RMC faculty than good, solid academia and research.  I am also disappointed as I recall how hard the faculty and staff worked on gaining accreditation for RMC in the late 90s, if this type of "publishing" continues I can see RMC losing their accreditation.  

But most of all, I feel a huge disappointment that a member of RMC's faculty would subject RMC students to this negative publicity about RMC in light of how hard they have all worked to improve the relationships within Kingston's citizenry.    

 

[sigpig]

I've always considered myself somewhat of an anti-monarchist - it's a remnant of the past and has no relevance to my life as a Canadian or as a member of the army. I didn't like swearing allegiance to the figurehead monarch of a foreign country and I wasn't thrilled about toasting her at dinners either.

That being said, I knew it was the price of admission to serve and I chose to do so. I had/have no delusions that anything was going to change in regards to this and I played the game as needed. Changes to this can only come from the political process when there is the will to do so. For a serving member to do this is very silly.

The fact I think the monarchy is an anachronism in no way reflects on my loyalty towards or love of Canada and willingness to fight for her when I served. To me they are separate issues.

George, does the term 'wingnut' always accompany the word 'atheist' or just when referring to the officer with the Remembrance Day issues?  

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

This "officer" need to resign both his commission and his lofty rank - now.  And I mean immediately.

You don't sign up for the bits you like, you sign up for the whole thing and it's especially incumbent upon officers to realize this.

(see, I managed to post without swearing at the person in question!)

 

[tomahawk6]

The officer needs to accept CF regulations or be seperated from service.

 

[George Wallace]

George, does the term 'wingnut' always accompany the word 'atheist' or just when referring to the officer with the Remembrance Day issues?  

Just the officer with the Remembrance Day issues.  He is to be included in the same category as this 'wingnut' associate professor.  We have a Venn diagram of atheists at Remembrance Services, and a Venn diagram of rabble rousing "Bring the Troops Home" Professors, and a Venn diagram of disloyal RMC Teachers; and where all three overlap, we have the "Wingnut Factor".  

[Edit to correct discription of Charts.....Thanks JM  ;D]

 

[muffin]

I am suddenly embarrassed to drive into work

I know this fellow... so I shall not say what I am REALLY thinking...
I do not agree with his point-of-view. I think it is ludicrous really... I am at a loss for words. (I know - not easy to do!)

muffin

 

[mover1]

Just a question. Is this dude one of those guys who con sideres himself and IRISH Canadian. Who puts his allegiance to his ancestral past above his present nationality.

 

[George Wallace]

It makes you wonder where this person really draws the line on Loyalty.  How far down can his loyalty be trusted?  He has 'sworn' Loyalty to the Crown in the past.  Is he still loyal to the GG as Commander in Chief?  Is he loyal to the CF?  Is he loyal to his Regiment/Branch/Unit?  Where can we now expect him to have loyalty; except to himself?  I agree with Teddy and tomahawk6, the man should Resign if this is what his Loyalty really means.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

To my mind, the fact that this "officer" finds it necessary to SUE the CF over such an issue speaks volumes about his character and judgement.  He must go - now.

 

[captjtq]

I guess "Truth, Duty and Valour" really means nothing to a lot of the younger graduates of RMC.  

You'd be guessing wrong. It actually means quite a bit to most of us "younger graduates", or at least the peers I graduated with - one of whom was living those ethos when she was killed in action earlier this year. Many more are living them right now in Afghanistan and elsewhere. There are rotten apples in every bunch. Actually, in light of Fred's comments, perhaps things have changed significantly in the last five years or so... I am rather removed from Sodom on the St. Lawerence.

In this case, if my information (the ex-cadet database) is correct, the former Harold Kenny is a 1978 Graduate, which would put him in the 50 year-old range. That's the only Harold Kenny in the database, and there is no Mac Giolla Chainnigh listed. I don't know how many Harold Kennys there are in the CF and I don't have access to the DIN right now.

My opinion: if one cannot in good conscious honour the oath given upon enrolment, it's time to get out. I think the lawsuit is frivolous and very nearly vexatious.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

He's listed at RMC:

http://www.rmc.ca/academic/physics/MacGiollaChainnigh/index_e.html

 

[Blakey]

Anyone remember a show on TV (way back in the 60's I think), in which the opening sequence was that a US Calvary Officer was being "drummed" out of the military. (Or maybe it was a movie?)

The officer in question stood there while someone (using a sabre), stripped him of all his rank and buttons, the large wooden door to the fort then opened and out marched the officer, in disgrace.

Sounds good to me.

 

[mover1]

OK so this guy wants to be irish and impose his "Irish" beleifs upon the rest of us. He probably romanticises the IRA, too.

Can you imagine if this guy was of another faith other than the Roman Catholic kind.....

 

[captjtq]

OK so this guy wants to be irish and impose his "Irish" beleifs upon the rest of us. He probably romanticises the IRA, too.

Can you imagine if this guy was of another faith other than the Roman Catholic kind.....

Like what? Wiccan, Episcopalian or Presbyterian? This isn't an Irish-Catholic/Protestant issue - he's arguing that the Queen is a 'foreign' monarch.

 

[Remius]

That's the problem.  She isn't a foreign monarch.  She's the Queen of Canada.

 

[niner domestic]

This person must have been asleep in the Plato to Nato history course we got. 

 

[Haggis]

OK so this guy wants to be Irish and impose his "Irish" beliefs upon the rest of us. He probably romanticises the IRA, too.

Can you imagine if this guy was of another faith other than the Roman Catholic kind.....

Why do you deduce that he is RC?  

Like what? Wiccan, Episcopalian or Presbyterian?

Could be he is enamoured with the Irish culture, not necessarily Irish religion(s)

 

[niner domestic]

I see illogical leaps are still abound.  The point of this topic is not to assume that the subject is attempting to make a religious statement in the absence of evidence to support such an assumption.  What we have is an Commissioned Officer in the CF, challenging not only the sovereignty of Her Majesty, but also the decisions of his Superiors.  (he's been to a number of boards with this complaint and been told, no no and no and now wants to appeal the decision of his superior officer - the CDS. )

That in and of itself is a serious gesture in usurping the authority of the NDA and Her Majesty.  (the fact that I'm annoyed at his lack of his stellar academic contributions is only because I'm an academic and have driven myself nuts with publish or perish and feel anyone who holds an appointment in academia has a responsibility to their field of study.) This officer's actions are inexcusable and not to mention very selfish and egocentric in attempting to move forward his own agenda on the backs of every single CF member that has under oath, pledged to protect Her Majesty and Canada.  I find this discord very frightening as it speaks to the depths of how far an individual will go to appease their own ego. 

 

[KevinB]

I think Movers point was -- what if this guy was an Islamic...

Would RMC put up with Ishmail Wur Mohammed not swearing loyalty to the Queen?

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

RMC isn't the issue, nor is religion.  Our "officer" has sworn the oath, by his own admission.

Now, in a shocking example of ego, selfishness and ill-judgement, he's decided to sue the CF in a misguided attempt to undertake some form of constitutional challenge.  His motives for doing so are irrelevant.

I'll say it again.  He must resign his commission immediately or have it stripped from him.  He can sue all he wants, but not while wearing the uniform.