RMC Officer Sues to Avoid Saluting, Toasting Queen?

[Infanteer]

Wow, this topic sure brings out the intelligence quotient.  Hang 'em!  Spit on 'em.  Bring back the days when we beat recruits, because they were better!!!  Get a grip guys.  Michael O'Leary layed out a warning on tone and content, so follow it.

This case is farcical; recreational litigation was a word I saw earlier which seems to be on the money.  His sentiments are on the level with the guy who refused to go into the Church.  The military has its traditions; show some respect and professionalism and fulfill the duties the uniform requires of you.  The question of the role of the monarchy in Canada is a political one and is probably not one best approached through military channels - infact, proper civil-military relations demands that it be the last place for it to happen.

I'm about done with this waste of time; I feel confident enough in my "Canadian-ness" (if you want to call it that) that I can happily sit through the next Church Parade or Mess Dinner.

Infanteer the Roundhead.  >

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Infanteer, I think you're trivializing what this "officer" is doing.

Frankly, I could care less what his private attitude towards the monarchy is or how his religious/nationalist viewpoint figures into the equation.

My concern is that this person has elected to bring the CF into disrepute by bringing a friviolous and politically-motivated lawsuit after being told "go away" by the chain of command.  As an officer, he owes the institution that he serves a certain amount of loyalty, including eschewing such monumentally stupid displays of his poor judgement.  Moreover, by going public he opens himself to the ad hominum attacks we've seen here; he's effectively become a public figure.

Indeed, if he feels so strongly about the issues he's raised, he has only one option:  resignation.

 

[medaid]

I never swore my allegiance to the Queen...I affirmed it. Does that make me a naughty naughty boy too?

Despite that fact, I agree with what Infanteer said...the military with our proud history really shouldnt be mixed up in something like this. It only spells trouble when one of us, an officer no less, brings this type of debate about both in the military, and the civiliarn world. We have some what showed our asses with regards to this topic... a little bit dont you think? A member not being loyal to the Head of State, might not be loyal to our country at all... damnations... what will happen next?

Drumming him out maybe is the answer...however...maybe we should make him pay the system back for all the years of fraud... and then slam hiim with a lawsuit ourself! ;D

 

[George Wallace]

Actually, this officer's actions could be considered as gross insubordination.  As he refuses to salute the Crown, does he also refuse to salute anyone who holds the Queen's Commission?  If such is the case, then he no doubt will (technically) be refusing to salute his superior officers.  That, or he has not defined clear lines by which he is following his arguments through.

 

[beach_bum]

I never swore my allegiance to the Queen...I affirmed it. Does that make me a naughty naughty boy too?

The afirmation has nothing to do with the Queen....it's about your belief in Christianity.  That's why it doesn't end with "So help me God".

 

[Remius]

Which means you did swear allegiance to the Queen of Canada, her heirs and successors...

 

[mover1]

So if this guy doesn't want to toast Old Betty JR.  does that mean he cuts the crown off of his hat badges and scriblle out the R, ER's, Reginas etc off of the uniforms he wears and texts he reads.

I want to be his lawyer.  After all if there is going to be one winner out of all of this it might as well be me. I wouldn't mind lining my pockets with all kinds of little slips of paper with the queen on them.

 

[rifleman]

Royal Canadian Engineer -> Canadian Military Engineers....

Round up those treasonous individuals...sacrilege I say.

 

[MP 811]

I noted that my post was removed from this thread.  I apologize if my use of a couple words offended anyone, that was not the intent...

 

[Trinity]

Somethings that bother you in life aren't worth fighting for.
You cannot nail yourself to every cross you see. In this case
this meant so much to the individual that he changed his name
and took it all the way to the CDS and then beyond.

To put it bluntly, we can see the cross he's nailing himself too.
He must be well aware of the public uprising and CF uprising
he is bringing.  He must be aware of possible charges against him.
He must be aware of his career ending and most likely having to
resign or be asked to leave. 

Although I DISAGREE with him, to him this issue is THAT important
that he chose to "nail himself to this cross" and make a stand. It is rare
that we see someone stand for their convictions (right or wrong) and
face such incredible pressure (even if it is self made!)

He's knows he's screwed and it wouldn't doubt him one bit to read
any of the comments in this forum.

That being said.. I'm not defending him but I'm just recognizing the
passion behind his actions (instead of calling it lunacy)


If he does resign... wouldn't he make more money as a civilian instructor
at RMC???  ;D : ???

 

[probum non poenitet]

I don't think this chap is thinking about Canada when he is questioning whether we should have a 'foreign' monarch or not.
I get the feeling he has adopted an uber-Irish identity (a name change is awfully radical), and feels vocal criticism of 'foreign English royalty' fits right in with the stereotype.

If my gut feeling is right, the irony is that rather than striving to keep Canada free of 'foreign symbols', he is trying to import a divisive and most definitely foreign issue to our shores.

Maybe he needs to transfer to the Óglaigh na hÉireann.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Somethings that bother you in life aren't worth fighting for.
You cannot nail yourself to every cross you see. In this case
this meant so much to the individual that he changed his name
and took it all the way to the CDS and then beyond.

To put it bluntly, we can see the cross he's nailing himself too.
He must be well aware of the public uprising and CF uprising
he is bringing.  He must be aware of possible charges against him.
He must be aware of his career ending and most likely having to
resign or be asked to leave. 

Although I DISAGREE with him, to him this issue is THAT important
that he chose to "nail himself to this cross" and make a stand. It is rare
that we see someone stand for their convictions (right or wrong) and
face such incredible pressure (even if it is self made!)

Bullshit!!!!!........sometimes you lose and just have to be MAN/WOMAN enough to face that fact. He obviously isn't made of the same stuff his Irish ancestors who faced grave odds to settle in North America.

 

[Trinity]

Bullshit!!!!!........sometimes you lose and just have to be MAN/WOMAN enough to face that fact. He obviously isn't made of the same stuff his Irish ancestors who faced grave odds to settle in North America.

Thank you for being so diplomatic and showing anger towards me
when your anger is towards the individual in question.  I didn't defend him
but merely showed another possibility, one that HAS NOT been disproven
and could be very well true.

Your attack on me is uncalled for.  You can disagree in a more appropriate
mannor if you really wanted to.

edit (fixed spelling on disproven)

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

You are making it seem like it means THAT MUCH to him.....what, like our Savior going to the cross?

I call Bullshit on the fact it means ANYTHING except publicity to him, he know the rules but still played the collection game twice a month........obviously didn't mean enough to him to give up a paycheque.

I would think you of all people would know what "nail in the cross" really means. Our comrades in theatre right now are "crossing" it, not this clown.    I'm actually a bit embarrassed at your "cross" terminology in this case.
Maybe its just me though.

 

[cplcaldwell]

No it's not just you...

 

[Remius]

If it meant that much to him then he should never have joined the CF.  Or he could resign in protest.

 

[Trinity]

You are making it seem like it means THAT MUCH to him.....what, like our Savior going to the cross?

I call Bullshit on the fact it means ANYTHING except publicity to him, he know the rules but still played the collection game twice a month........obviously didn't mean enough to him to give up a paycheque.

I would think you of all people would know what "nail in the cross" really means. Our comrades in theatre right now are "crossing" it, not this clown.    I'm actually a bit embarrassed at your "cross" terminology in this case.
Maybe its just me though.

Lets examine the term "nailing oneself to a cross"

It means taking a stand where you probably aren't going to win but
it means that much to you that you have no other choice but to stand
up for your own convictions. (roughly)  I am not saying he is as
saintly as Jesus.


This guy... is as good as gone.  He knows his actions are going to cost
him his career.  For him.. this is the same.  I could have said Custard's
Last Stand or Kamikaze... instances where there is one decision and
no real way out.  Instead of actual death he's committing career suicide
for his beliefs.

That is also where I disagree with the vast majority here.  These are
his beliefs and feelings.  They appear to be very strong since the age
of 16 he didn't like the oath so we can see how early they are rooted.
He changed his name... that's huge too.  We can assume his beliefs
RIGHT OR WRONG... are very strong. 

That is what I am saying.    That is VALID.

Your point is he isn't MAN enough to accept responsibility.
That is ALSO a valid belief.  There is NO right or wrong answer
to this situation.

EDIT

Oh.. crap.  I disagree with the reasons he's doing it.  I agree entirely
with every other post demanding his Commision, the Royal in RMC, the queen
as our monarch, etc...  My post is simply to show he may not be a raving lunatic
but a misguided person with strong feelings in his heart.

 

[cplcaldwell]

I get your point.

The philosophy is his and thus valid. Very Cartesian, I'll give you that...

What's the ethics of his actions? Isn't that the central point, how ethical is the good Captain, believing one thing and practising another?

 

[Blackadder1916]

He's listed at RMC:

http://www.rmc.ca/academic/physics/MacGiollaChainnigh/index_e.html

Even if I had not somewhat formed an opinion based on this thread, the first impression from looking at his photo was this is a man who does not care about the example that he sets for the cadets at RMC.  Not only is he a 'disloyal tool', he needs to see the barber.

 

[Journeyman]

OK, I've refused to get dragged into this dogpile, but I've got to jump in here........

I could have said Custard's Last Stand...

Custer. LCol (brevet-BGen) George Armstrong Custer. US Cavalry Officer killed at Little Big Horn.
Custard. A milk & egg based dessert or dessert sauce.

Hopefully this topic has now been beaten to death.
Notice how I snuck in a reference to both eggs and Custer's demise