Should everyone get a CD?

[warrickdll]

Some people serve honorably, are never deployed, and leave before 12 years, why not have a medal that shows that they did serve in their nation's military?

And, as a visible display of service, aren't there more meaningful intervals of service other than the 12th, 22nd, and 32nd years?

How about recognizing:
- anyone who has served and has been released (except for disciplinary reasons)
- or, if not discharged, at 2.5 years (generally before the end of the 1st contract),
- at 5 years (generally, sort of, before the end of the 2nd contract),
- at 10 years (the year at which you can leave and still be considered Retired - Note: Personal bias - left after 10 years of service)
- and at every 10 years after that (uhmm... just because it's easy to count by tens)

Here are a few ideas to compare:

-Option 1 -Current CD. Marking - 12, 22, 32, etc -Medal at 12 years -1st Clasp at 22 years (rosette) -Another Clasp every 10 years (additional rosettes) -(e.g. 32, 42, etc) - - -Pro: No changes required -Con: Limited information displayed

-Option 2 -Progressive CD. Marking - 2.5 (or less), 5, 10, 20, 30, etc -Medal with 1st Clasp after honorable discharge -or Medal with 1st Clasp at 2.5 years (silver leaf) -Replaces 1st Clasp at 5 years (gold leaf) -Replaces 1st Clasp at 10 years (red leaf) -Another Clasp every 10 years (additional red leaves) -(e.g. 20, 30, etc) -Pro: Recognizes all military service -Con: More than just a basic change

-Option 3 -Progressive CD. Marking - 5 (or less), 10, 15, etc -Medal 1st Clasp after honorable discharge -or Medal with 1st Clasp at 5 years (silver leaf) -Another Clasp every 5 years (additional silver leaves) -(e.g. 10, 15, etc) - - -Pro: Recognizes all military service -Con: Those clasps will get crowded

-Option 4 -Lower Sleeve Arm Stripes. Marking - 5, 10, 15, etc -1st Stripe at 5 years -Another Stripe every 5 years -(e.g. 10, 15, etc) - - - -Pro: Requires no change to the CD -Con: Only useful on tunic

-Option 5 -Other. Marking - post an idea - - - - - - - -

The costs should be minimal since you are already tracked for the CD, and I am Not advocating a new design (except maybe for the clasps).

Post Nominals can be handled in a few ways:
- Grant them at either 10, 15, or 20 years (depending on Option)
- Stop using them
- Stop using them except for those who were awarded the CD prior to changes
- Grant them to everyone with the new CD


Some important points:

The Canadian Forces Decoration is not just a "time served" award, if you need more information try http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/018-09_e.asp, or http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/dhh/honours_awards/engraph/honour_awards_e.asp?cat=3&Q_ID=92. For the Long Service / Good Conduct awards replaced by the CD try http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/dhh/honours_awards/engraph/long_service_e.asp?cat=3.

Though this may have a minimal affect on some peoples' morale/pride (or sense of order), this change would not increase the operational capability of the CF. That there are more pressing issues is already known.

 

[Patrolman]

To me it is a long service medal given for long a service period. Giving it to someone who serves 2.5,5 or even ten years would not make it a lon service medal. Changing the policy after all these years would diminish the contribution thousands of others have made in the past under current requirements.

 

[BernDawg]

The CD marks a commitment to the CF.  Two and a half years is hardly a commitment (or 5, maybe 10).  If your leaving the forces is honourable you'll get a spiffy certificate for your "I love me" wall.  If you want a CD then commit yourself to the service.

 

[GO!!!]

Iterator,

This seems like an attempt to suggest more impressive uniforms are required for those who are not deployed, or serve for short periods of time.

Seeing as the medals/decorations we recieve are based on very select criteria, I fail to see why this should be "opened up" to more applicants.

I look at the DEUs in my unit, and I see medals for deployments, jump wings, pathfinder torches, commendations from the CiC on down, a few CDs, assaulter badges, wound stripes, and ranger tabs. Why should those who completed demanding trg courses, served overseas or were wounded, be recognised in a similar manner to those who elected to stay in Canada, or took a trade that would see them safely out of harm's way?

Our medals system is fine the way it is. You do the time, you get the gong, stay here, collect your CD, do not pass go - your choice.

 

[geo]

The brits have brought in a medal for shorter service - something along the 8 yr range.
will look it up and post reference

T'was felt that 12 yrs is a wee bit too long...

then again - after 12 yrs - why did they decide to move forward in 10 yr increments thereafter?

 

[Bart Nikodem]

I voted option 5.
Leave the current CD system alone. I say this now since I have mine, if this poll was done last year my answer would have been different.
But...
Institute a generic "Service" medal, so on Remembrance day, job interviews, weddings and funerals you can let people know you were in the CF. The upshot is it'll let the general public know just how many people have served in the CF, and it can be an ice breaker if you see someone in an awkward social setting with one as well, it gives you something to talk about.
Since everyone and their monkey would receive one I suppose the actual prestige won't be that high, but it is something.
I see it akin to those medals everyone in the CF received who were in during WWI and WWII regardless of length of service or place of service.
All the best,
Bart

 

[George Wallace]

I voted option 5.
Leave the current CD system alone. I say this now since I have mine, if this poll was done last year my answer would have been different.

???

That is option # 1 !

But...
Institute a generic "Service" medal, so on Remembrance day, job interviews, weddings and funerals you can let people know you were in the CF. The upshot is it'll let the general public know just how many people have served in the CF, and it can be an ice breaker if you see someone in an awkward social setting with one as well, it gives you something to talk about.
Since everyone and their monkey would receive one I suppose the actual prestige won't be that high, but it is something.
I see it akin to those medals everyone in the CF received who were in during WWI and WWII regardless of length of service or place of service.
All the best,
Bart

That is not a CD, but a whole different Medal.

I love people who want us to start looking like a bunch of "Boy Scouts".  I see they have been greatly influenced by the cretin way of thinking.

If you can't do the time, don't whine about not getting a medal.  You are not dedicated enough to be rewarded.

I agree with GO!!! on this. 

You serve your country and get the reward.  You do the Tours and make the commitment, then you get the gongs.  After a while you will only want a bigger chest to put them on. 

Iterator......you are a crap disturber who really should take some time to know what it is that you suggest in these forums.  Next time you have a bright idea, please put more thought into what you are doing.  Perhaps, even refrain from doing it.

 

[Trinity]

I dunno...

IF it was necessary... IF.. THE BIG IF....

I could see #4 being satisfactory

But I have my CD... and NO OTHER MEDAL...
(and I'm a Lt.. I am the joke of the CF    Lt with or Maj w/o)

Still, there are enough "patches/badges" that require effort to get.
I don't want to get a badge/medal for every little thing like other countries.

 

[Kat Stevens]

How about the StJD (St Jean Decoration)  for completing basic in fewer than 3 tries?  The Meritorious Moving Medal for being posted more than once in any three year period?  The Can-ex Barbershop Loyalty Medal with Crossed Scissors  for getting your hair cut by Bob the Butcher for more than three years and retaining most of both ears?  Anyone? Anyone....?  Bueller...?

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I'd like to see the return of Good Conduct Badges for privates and corporals; they are traditional and they reward long service worker bees (derisively called "career corporals" in some parts).  And they would be in addition to the CD, not in place of.  Anyone promoted to Sr. NCO rank is automatically assumed to be of good character and thus would not be entitled to them.

Otherwise, I agree with Tom's statements. 

And I also don't see the point in rewarding someone with a medal for doing only 2.5 years; this is the point at which a soldier has finally done all the hard work of becoming proficient in his trade and in the reserves may even qualify for minor supervisory duties (I take it promotion to Cpl in the regs is still four years?).  After all the money spent on wages and kit and ammunition and rations just to get a guy up to speed in his job, why on earth reward him for quitting just after he's learned something?  He's been a colossal waste of money.

 

[Bart Nikodem]

George,
I voted 5 not 1 because I don't agree with the status quo on only the CD.

I love people who want us to start looking like a bunch of "Boy Scouts".  

Do you think WWII vets look like "Boy Scouts" because of all the medals they received just for being in during WWII?
I don't.

 

[ZipperHead]

As soon as I read this, I KNEW that the person (Iterator) posing the question had less than 12 years in (i.e no CD). I should have been a cop.....

I think the CD is somewhat of a joke (contrary to EVERY CO's little speech prior to issuing said "decoration"). "12 years of undetected crime......" is but one of the lesser slurs directed at it. If it's to be given out at all (I didn't bother reading the different polls questions, as I didn't vote (even though the time taken to vote IS pensionable time  ;D)) it should be at the end of your career, as a "see ya, glad to know you" thing, and could be worn on the Legion blazer, or whatnot.

IMO, something that EVERYONE gets (well, assuming they serve the 12 years in this case) isn't worth having (somewhat like the Employee of the Month Award at the Springfield Nuclear Power Plant, even an inanimate carbon rod receives it).

Al

 

[George Wallace]

George,
I voted 5 not 1 because I don't agree with the status quo on only the CD.Do you think WWII vets look like "Boy Scouts" because of all the medals they received just for being in during WWII?
I don't.

No!  I don't think that WW II Vets look like "Boy Scouts" because of all their medals.  They went through "Hell" to earn them.

I do object to someone getting a medal for surviving Recruit School and then quiting the CF after getting a Trade (Would that be within the 2.5 year timeframe?).  That shows me that a person is being rewarded for being a self-centered quitter, who didn't joint the CF for the right reasons - but still thinks they deserve some sort of reward for doing so.

A medal means something to me.  It means that the person wearing it has shown a commitment and dedication to the CF.  To degrade it and give it to anyone and his dog, does not show any respect to all who have gone before.  The last thing we need now is to start going through all of the Service Records of every Former Member of the CF and it's previous incarnations to award a Medal to them for having served 2.5, 5,......years.  Do you realize the costs in time and money that this project would take?

This is another "Troll" question and I am tired of it.

 

[Franko]

If the CD goes that route....it'll be like a TFA NSE coin, like the one's they passed out during our tour.    :

"Presented to Cpl Bloggins ..... for special projects" (WTF is that?)

"Presented to Cpl No Name ..... for repairing a roof" (he was an engineer)

"Presented to Cpl Mech ... for recovering vehicles" (that was his job)

It got to the point that the photographer got one for taking pictures, at least he threw it back to the Adj...said it was worthless.

If it were to go that route for the CD...it'd be worthless.

My $0.02 worth

Regards

 

[warrickdll]

This seems like an attempt to suggest more impressive uniforms are required for those who are not deployed, or serve for short periods of time.

Seeing as the medals/decorations we recieve are based on very select criteria, I fail to see why this should be "opened up" to more applicants.

...Why should those who completed demanding trg courses, served overseas or were wounded, be recognised in a similar manner to those who elected to stay in Canada, or took a trade that would see them safely out of harm's way?

...

I guess I should've included the option to get rid of the CD altogether.

then again - after 12 yrs - why did they decide to move forward in 10 yr increments thereafter?

It does seem odd that it didn't stick with 12 year increments. That would seem to make more sense and also follow the traditional Long Service medals.

...
I love people who want us to start looking like a bunch of "Boy Scouts".  I see they have been greatly influenced by the cretin way of thinking.

If you can't do the time, don't whine about not getting a medal.  You are not dedicated enough to be rewarded.
...

Iterator......you are a crap disturber who really should take some time to know what it is that you suggest in these forums.  Next time you have a bright idea, please put more thought into what you are doing.  Perhaps, even refrain from doing it.

Couldn't the same "Boy Scout" comment apply to the issue at 12 years? Was there a specific reason to determine that 12 years was the "Boy Scout" cut-off?

Unless you object - I'm going to have to quote you in my Signature block.

I'd like to see the return of ...Good Conduct Badges...  And they would be in addition to the CD, not in place of.


After all the money spent on wages and kit and ammunition and rations just to get a guy up to speed in his job, why on earth reward him for quitting just after he's learned something?  He's been a colossal waste of money.

Yes, that option (the arm badges) would be with the current CD. I tried not to leave any ambiguities but I did miss that one.


If it is such a waste then why allow short contracts?

As soon as I read this, I KNEW that the person (Iterator) posing the question had less than 12 years in (i.e no CD). I should have been a cop.....

IMO, something that EVERYONE gets (well, assuming they serve the 12 years in this case) isn't worth having (somewhat like the Employee of the Month Award at the Springfield Nuclear Power Plant, even an inanimate carbon rod receives it).

Al

I'm not sure you should be so quick about a career change, after all I did state that Note: Personal bias - left after 10 years of service . However it is up to you to decide whether I would have asked the same question if I had left after 5 or 15 years (I submit that I would have).

Again: I guess I should've included the option to get rid of the CD altogether. However I hope you selected the last option.

...  It means that the person wearing it has shown a commitment and dedication to the CF.  To degrade it and give it to anyone and his dog, does not show any respect to all who have gone before.  The last thing we need now is to start going through all of the Service Records of every Former Member of the CF and it's previous incarnations to award a Medal to them for having served 2.5, 5,......years.  Do you realize the costs in time and money that this project would take?

This is another "Troll" question and I am tired of it.

The CF already tracks a CD forecast doesn't it? As for former members - you could always charge a fee and have them provide their own records (or charge a higher fee for those who don't submit records).

Troll? Everyone aside from yourself seems to be able to respond in a reasonable manner, or not respond at all. I urge you not to trash the topic, especially as it is going your way.

 

[MikeL]

I'm with GO!!! on this one.

Only thing I would like too see would be something similar too the US Marine/Navy Combat Action Ribbon or US Army's CIB, CAB an CMB.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

I personally like the CD just the way it is. I think it does say something to people about your commitment and is a way of recognizing time in....it certainly isn't a good conduct medal as I don't know of anyone who hasn't got one lately due to bad behaviour lol. I think they do dock jail time on the CD tracker but who the heck goes to jail these days....those old boys in Edmonton are getting pretty lonely I think.

Having said that I think the rest of our Honours and Awards system really sucks. The Canada Silver Jubilee, Golden Jubilee and 125 were just bloody jokes. I would be really embarrassed to wear a 125 medal personally after seeing the way they were handed out. I thought we all should have got the Golden Jubilee medal similar to the way it was done in Britain....if you had served 1 year to the crown on the date of the anniversary of the ascension you got one....I was in London in 2002 and saw guardsman at the Palace wearing them.
I would hate to see us go to the American system of ribbons for doing very little and unit citations but there are certain things that could be recognized better.

CD isn't broke...don't fix it>

 

[1feral1]

The CD is fine the way it is, to change it now, cheapens the award for those (including me) who earned it with 12 yrs or more loyal and dedicated service.

In Australia the DFLSM (Defence Force Long Service Medal) is given after 15 yrs service with clasps every 5 yrs thereafter.

The ADF realising there was no medal for those under 15 yrs (less medals for deploymenet and other reasons) came up with the ADM (Australian Defence Medal). Google this for more info, but it is given out to those with a mininum of 6 yrs service, and falls into the criteria for those who although never deployed, gave service during operations at home.

Maybe this same idea should be brought forward to the Canadian parliament? Thats however is up to you.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[NCRCrow]

I would like to see some uniform recognition for sea time, maybe it would reduce the SLL(sick/lame/lazy) and instil some pride.

 

[GO!!!]

Mike, HFX,

I also believe that there should be some sort of equivalency of the CIB, and some sort of recognition for combat service at sea and in the air, too many of our decorations are "I showed up" medals. I've read that 8000 SWASMs were minted, but only 750 men served in the BG!!  ???

I find it quite irksome that the SWASM I earned humping up and down mountains in +50C heat, driving through minefields and eating IMPs for six months straight is the same as the one that the navy got for patrolling the Persian Gulf. Some sort of recognition for the pointy end of all three elements would seem to be in order - BUT

We have already been down this road in the "less entitled" thread.