Signing Bonus - Engineering Officers

[Meridian]

hi... a deo is only an OCdt usually during IAP/BOTP....

As far as I was told, it was because of the advantageous training received by ROTP's and more importantly TI that gives ROTP'ers a different pay scale.

 

[Inch]

I've been looking at the pay scale for officers on the dnd site and   I'm just curious as to why there's no Officer Cadet pay scale for DEO officers, ie "C"?   Am I to assume Officer Cadets under DEO receive Second Lieutenants pay?  

DEOs are 2Lts from the get go, when they finish basic training their commission is effective the day they were sworn in. You receive DEO 2Lt pay from day one.

As an aside why do ROTP Second Lieutenants get paid more than DEO Second Lieutenants?   Is this because ROTP Second Lieutenants already have SLT and other courses completed before commissioning.   If that's the case it takes a DEO 2LT 2 incentive pay categories to have the same basic pay as a ROTP 2LT.   How long does it take to jump two pay incentive categories.    Is it the number of courses completed or is it by time in.   If its by time in, how long before getting to pay incentive category 2, and if its by courses how long would that take to equal the number of courses received by ROTP officers.

The difference in pay is a Time In thing, however, it's kinda skewed a little bit. ROTP guys that I got my wings with got promoted to Lt while myself and other DEOs were promoted right to Capt.  The reason for this is even though the ROTP guys had been in the military longer, I had been commissioned longer. So I believe they get the higher pay only due to the fact that they spend 4 years as an OCdt, but in the end, all your promotions are based on your commissioning date.

Also, you're only supposted to be a 2Lt for one year and an Lt for 2 years. So if an ROTP and a DEO enrolled on the same day, the DEO would be a Capt a year before the ROTP guy was commissioned.

One incentive = one year. You get an incentive for every year you're in that rank until you max out on the pay tables, I got my wings on the 2nd of Apr, so I get an incentive every Apr 2nd as long as I'm a Capt. So since there's 10 incentives for a Capt, once you recieve that last incentive, you won't get any more raises until you're promoted to Maj.

I have also been given the impression that ROTP officers do not qualify for recruitment bonuses like the $40 000 for engineers.   Does anyone have the answer to the above questions?   Thank you for your kind attention.

The only reason I can think of for why they wouldn't get bonuses is because they're not engineers thus not eligible for the bonus. They're only engineers after they graduate in which case the CF owns them for 5 years after university.

 

[Meridian]

ROTP-ers do not qualify because their education is being subsidized. If the government paid for your education, they are not going to give you another 40,000 just for completeing it, basically.

If you are talking about a secondary degree. (Ie I have an AeroEng degree and I want to go back to get a CompEng degree) then I do not know if ROTP will subsidize a second degree, perhaps someone in recruiting could answer that...

 

[Croony]

So if an engineer would sign up for the engineering signing bonus...Does the 4 year contract include training time or does the commitment start once a level of training is complete?

 

[Inch]

Contracts start the day you enroll. There are however some trade specific stipulations, I don't know what they are for engineers, but pilots for example are on restricted release for 7 years after they're MOC qualified. In my case, I enrolled in 1999, spent 5 years in the training system and my 7 years started Apr 2nd 2004. I must stay in until Apr 2nd 2011, period. So my initial 9 year contract wouldn't have covered until the end of my restricted release, thus I had to sign an additional contract. My two options were the Intermediate engagement to take me to my 20 year of service or sign a short engagement that would have ended at the same time as my restricted release.

 

[hoote]

So just to clarify, I will be earning 2Lt pay throughout basic training even though I will be an officer cadet?  I am going in for DEO infantry officer.  I need to know as there is a drastic difference in pay and my wife and I are banking on a certain wage.

Thanks,
Hoote

 

[Thirstyson]

Yes Hoote, but please verify with your recruiting officer as it would be bad to make a mistake.

I think DEO officer cadets are at 2LT pay, table C, level 3 to start.

Again, ask your recruiting officer, they don't mind being asked.

 

[kincanucks]

ROTP-ers do not qualify because their education is being subsidized. If the government paid for your education, they are not going to give you another 40,000 just for completeing it, basically.

If you are talking about a secondary degree. (Ie I have an AeroEng degree and I want to go back to get a CompEng degree) then I do not know if ROTP will subsidize a second degree, perhaps someone in recruiting could answer that...

The CF will only subsidize a second degree if it is required for the occupation, e.g Nursing.

 

[hoote]

Just in case anyone wants to know, I went into the recruiting center this week and they have the new pay scales effective Apr 2005.  DEO officers get $39,000 (and change) from the get go until they are Lieutenants when it goes up to 46,000 (and change).  Then supposedly after 2 years as Lieutenant, they are promoted to Captain and make 63,000 (and of course...change). 

This was nice to hear as I thought DEO officer cadets only got like 2k a month. 

Now all I have to do is get in!! 

Hoote

 

[Thirstyson]

This was nice to hear as I thought DEO officer cadets only got like 2k a month.

Don't count you're chickens before they've hatched .... after tax etc. a DEO takes home about 2.5k per month.

 

[Iliyana]

When my DH first joined as a DEO, he only got officer cadet pay. After IAP, he got SLT pay as back time retroactive to when he joined. He eventually got the full pay, but not at the beginning. Just wanted to clarify!

 

[CdnArtyWife]

Ditto that, only the pay office in St-Jean messed up and tried to pay dh too much, but dh caught it and went to rectify it. Pay office gave him an allotment of 800 each pay until it was fixed. At end of BOTP he got all of his closing ballance which was a nice treat just after christmas (dh grad BOTP 22 Dec 01)

 

[ZxExN]

Does anyone know if DEO applicants can get reimbursed for the education that they paid? It seems a little unfair that everyone getting accepted to RMC and through Civ ROTP are getting their education paid for. The Army is now amping up their recruting advertisement but the one group of people that they would benefit from having (the DEO who already got their degree), that group seems like they're getting the staft. There is absolutely no financial incentive currently for them to join. I'm not saying that it's all about the money, but if one of the major selling point for recruting is paying for your education, a partial reimbursement for people who already have degrees would really be benefical. Plus, I'm sure theres are many that go through RMC or civ that the gov't pays for but dont' complete their program and essential, the gov't has wasted that money on them. However with DEOs, they are guaranteed someone with a degree and hence, no risk.

Also with RMC or ROTP applicants who can take 4 years to finish, with DEO you're getting an applicant thats ready to go right now.

Btw I'm a DEO applicant but I don't want it to sound like all I want is to milk the governement but if they're serious about hiring and beefing up the CF, they should also be fair and give Universe grads some incentives.

 

[Big Foot]

ZxExN, please bear in mind one thing, many DEO officers get a signing bonus when they sign on into the Forces, a signing bonus often times big enough to cover education expenses. As well, we ROTP folks do summer training while going to school, so we're qualified, or close to qualified, when we graduate. Before you start bashing the ROTP program, please do your research. I am uncertain of current signing bonuses, but they do exist for a lot of DEO officers. In short, leave us be. Both programs offer their own advantages.

 

[dapaterson]

It's largely a case of supply and demand - there is enough of a supply of people with degrees applying to meet the intake requirements, so why offer additional inducements?

In the past, there have been some bonuses offered to attract Engineers; and currently there are programs in place to provide inducements to Doctors and Dentists to enrol.  As well, certain NCM occupations offer bonuses for personnel who can bypass training.  I do not have the current list of occupations qualifying for bonuses at hand (if Kincanuks is reading this, perhaps he has it handy?).  But they mostly provide incentives for personnel who can bypass technical training,.

 

[muffin]

Some of the signing bonuses :

Engineers / Science Degrees

http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/engraph/enrollment/index_e.aspx

Doctors

http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/engraph/enrollment/index_e.aspx

Dentists

http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/engraph/enrollment/index_e.aspx

and there have been / or are bonuses for NCM trades as well...

muffin

 

[scoutfinch]

Without attempting to sound like Mother Theresa or too overly altruistic, I really wish people would stop the "what's in it for me" routine before enrollment. 

It is an honour and a privilege to serve my Country.  I say this with all seriousness having left a very lucrative civilian career in midlife to pursue a military career because it is the right thing to do. 

Let's be honest -- no one is going to be rich while serving in the military.  This isn't civie street, so the expectation that someone *owes* you something because you have *deigned* to serve is offensive.  Big deal, you have a degree.  I have three. 

To paraphrase Kennedy, it isn't about what the military can give to you, it should be about what you can do for your country.

 

[HCA123]

A DEO candidate can't expect a reimbursement for university they already have completed. As a DEOer myself, I can say (knowing a few RMC grads) that I had a 'different' university experience. Much more sleeping in and a lot less stress for me. RMC isn't a walk in the park and in my opinion they earn every coin they make/free education they are given. Being an Ocdt for 4 to 5 years can't be easy (as opposed to those of us who are commissioned upon completion of BOTP).

Anyone that wants a 'civie' university experience combined with a military experience (and take advantage of reimbursements), ROTP civie U is an option or you can do what I did and join the reserves and when you are done university, transfer over to the regs. Reservists make much more now than they used to and they have a reimbursement program (50% up to $2000).

In the end, how many jobs are out there that would pay you back for university you have already completed? I'm thinking zero, why should the military be different? The military is offering great things these days (pay, leave, travel, training, etc) and as a previous post states, you can't go into the process thinking the military owes you something. Once you are in and you perform at a high level, you will be rewarded accordingly. Enrolment bonuses for tech trades/engineers/MOs are a different matter altogether and for those professions are deserved as they are trying to fill a serious gap, as the military has to be competitive with the private industry.

 

[ZxExN]

Yeah I guess you guys are right. University experience and an ROTP/RMC experience is quite different. However just on at recruiting point of view, it would be very attractive to offer DEOs some incentives. If at the very least, forgive their government loans.

 

[double0three]

I was pretty sure any DEO applicant received a big bonus, but that may have been only during a specific time frame and no longer available as I can no longer find it.

However while it would certainly be nice that they covered your education costs, its not really necessary.  An officer position in the forces is pretty good money once you move up in the ranks (and decent even when you start up for that matter).  Its pretty competative with salary for an entry level position at most companies, benefits are wonderful, and you won't even be paying living expenses should you live on the base.

Plus none of us want in for the money anyway... right?????