Spiritual Issues

[mariomike]

My personal opinion, is that the near and new dead may leave their mark - "spirit"? - on those sent to help them. No one individual to a significant degree, but as the years pass by, they start to add up. Best not to dwell on it.
Sometimes, when you pass by a home or intersection, you are reminded of them for a moment.

 

[aesop081]

I have the benefit of near-death episodes to draw upon.

*face palm*.........i'm sorry, there is no point talking with you on this any longer. I should have know better than to talk about religion and god with anyone.

CDN_Aviator, seeing as you have studied his work, what are your opinions on the hard evidence (i.e. remote-viewing etc.)?

I dismiss it for what it is.........rubbish.

 

[aesop081]

Sometimes, when you pass by a home or intersection, you are reminded of them for a moment.

Yeah.....we atheists call it "remembering stuff" using something called "memory".

 

[Cat]

Yeah.....we atheists call it "remembering stuff" using something called "memory".

so do alot of us Christians

 

[mariomike]

Yeah.....we atheists call it "remembering stuff" using something called "memory".

I tried to choose my words as best I could. No offence was intended. Sorry if any was caused.

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

I was simply replying in kind, it was not intended to be taken offensively. We are all equals here are we not? If that is the case, I do not see why I would not be entitled to responding in a similar manner.

I am not a Padre, but I have had the priviledge of working closely with a large number of outstanding Padres over the past twenty years.  None would have told someone dismissively to read something and get back to them and none would talk about "responding in kind."  Padres in my experience have a vast reservoir of patience and wisdom; something that I have counted on personally as an individual and professionally as a leader.  Padres need to gain the trust and respect of the soldiers in a unit.  I find that they gain that trust through humility and understanding.  Once they have that trust they can really start to positively affect morale in the unit.  As a sub-unit commander I have spent hours talking with our unit Chaplain on a range of issues - precisely because I trust and respect him.  None of this had to do with religion, but rather to do with his ability to consider an individual's situation and offer counsel/guidance. 

In any case, I hope that you don't think I am picking on you.  The Internetz are a hard way to judge someone, and I apologize if I am coming on a little strong here.

Cheers

 

[Ravanosh]

I agree that my tone was inappropriate, and I have modified that post accordingly. Sometimes the temptation to follow suit can be too difficult to ignore. I was hoping that putting my suggestion forward as a challenge would inspire CDN_Aviator to look into the research. Seeing as he has already done so, this was not necessary.

It certainly wasn't said dismissively, but as you said Tango2Bravo, the internet does not allow for subtle tone, and our words are wholly subject to interpretation. I will choose them more carefully in the future, as should many of us.

 

[57Chevy]

a quote from, The Song of Bernadette:
"For those who believe in God, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not, no explanation is possible."

I really love this quote. Thank you for sharing it.

 

[SARgirl]

I really love this quote. Thank you for sharing it.

You're welcome. 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Seeing how my posts have been received, I think I had best explain myself fully. My opinions are not simply formed on subjective faith, but through objective experience. I have the benefit of near-death episodes to draw upon. Since I cannot relay this first-hand experience, the next best thing is to refer to relevant science, hence my reference to the work of Dr. Thomas Campbell.

Don't really want to get involved in this thread, however I couldn't let this quote go by without a comment.

Check the name of this forum and then consider your wording, not only have many had 'near-death' experiences, many have also been too-close witnesses to 'death' experiences.

Something about judging/ walking/ shoes sound familiar......

 

[Ravanosh]

Check the name of this forum and then consider your wording, not only have many had 'near-death' experiences, many have also been too-close witnesses to 'death' experiences.

Near-death as in Out-of-Body. I'm not saying many on this forum have not had these experiences, I was merely pointing out that they were helpful in reinforcing my conclusions on the nature of reality and spirituality in particular.

Also before this thread disappears into the mix, I would like to thank CDN Aviator, Antoine, and others who provided recommendations on pursuing a career in military science. I believe that as Sapplicant pointed out, the private sector is the most likely place for non-lethal weapons research to be carried out.

I am working on a patent application and grant proposal for a system that would fit the bill. I'll be picking the brains of forum members in the relevant section for tips on refining the delivery system.

 

[armychick2009]

*face palm*.........i'm sorry, there is no point talking with you on this any longer. I should have know better than to talk about religion and god with anyone.

I had to laugh just a little bit on this one... couldn't resist! Have you heard of that list of 3 things to never talk about (at work, on a first date, with in-laws, etc...) unless you want to get into a heated debate?
Politics, Religion and Money?

Oh yea... I've learned to take that to heart so I can avoid events requiring the  *face palm*

 

[Nemecek]

Ravanosh,

It seems that you are over-thinking this. While I respect your beliefs in a spiritual universe (One of my majors was religious studies), you have created an error in your career priorities.

As a Canadian Forces Chaplain, your first duty is to your country and your fellow personnel. Canada is a democratic state, not a theocracy. Liberté, égalité, fraternité are essentially what will become your trinity. While spiritual advice and counsel is a very large part of the job, you will be completely beholden to the ideologies of Canada and its military. The taxpayers are paying your salary, not anyone or anything else. There may even be times when you may be asked to implicitly support something that contradicts your weltpolitik or theological beliefs. You'll have to reconcile that with yourself.


I've noticed your tag of 'Paladin', and frankly I believe you should rethink it. You give off the aura that you seriously style yourself as some righteous crusader. I think that can be a dangerous mindset. I would seriously caution you about using those wide brush strokes of 'good' and 'evil'. There are many people on both sides of the fence who fit into one of the categories, both, or neither. You seem to be respectful and humble, but I think that your humility is facetious, and you believe you are unequivocally right in everything you profess. You lecture other posters that they should keep their minds open and look for new answers; you should truly take your own advice. You deride other posters for not having the same mindset of what you've come to believe, yet in every major religious text there are passages telling us not to believe those lies spoken by people claiming it is God's truth.


If you want to be a true servant of God, beholden only to the word that you interpret, then join the clergy of whatever faith you profess. If you want to be a true servant of your fellow man, then keep thinking about the Canadian Forces.

 

[Ravanosh]

In retrospect, I agree that my tone and wording are indicative of a close-minded spiritual viewpoint.

However, my intent was to elaborate upon the reasons for my convictions in as complete a fashion as possible. My hope was that I could instill interest in the fields of theology and metaphysics at the same time - an effort which has lead to misinterpretations of my intent.

I am open and eager to review any science that contradicts my views. Debate on such a heavy topic is intrinsically difficult to have without offending someone at some point. I apologize if I lead anyone to assume that I am not open to well-supported counter arguments.

I adopted the moniker of Paladin as I believe it reflects on my personality - that being a spiritual man with the desire to fight for what is right. Also, I do not use the terms good and evil lightly. I am fully aware that such generalizations are too broad, and remain subject to interpretation.

Still, I believe that there are many people who fit into the extreme of either moral spectrum.

I appreciate your advice on serving in the Chaplaincy Nemecek. If I were to serve in such a capacity, I would never think to force my beliefs on others. My job would be to instill a sense of the "greater good" in the troops, while serving the faith needs of Christians.

I am sorry to have mislead you, and others, in regards to my intentions. In many posts in this thread I took too active an approach in explaining my position, and I regret having done so.

 

[Jungle]

A couple of points:

As far as "faith" or "spirituality" goes, I am agnostic; I accept that some things are unexplained and unexplainable, like god, the universe and my kids' adolescence... I believe all religions were invented by humans to control and manipulate other humans, and that if there is a god, he is probably nothing like any of the religions believe. I certainly do not lose any sleep over any of these concepts... Religions have given us traditions in the form of gestures and sayings that some hypocrits decided to make "holy".
Look at the history of conflict, and try to convince me that religions are not one of the main causes of wars.

The Mayan calendar is somewhat like ours; I saw the "long count" stone calendar in Coba, Mexico, and the guide explained to us that like our calendar, it was repetitive. I believe it is now in it's thirteenth repetition. The guide also explained to us that the Mayans were very intelligent people, but that like everybody else, they were incapable of seeing the future.

Nostradamus was an illuminated idiot... and so is the guy who dresses like him on Discovery channel; except he is not illuminated...

 

[57Chevy]

Ravanosh,
You have no reason to explain your spiritual values here, nor abase them.
If you feel that you have something to offer to the soldier, whether he be
Christian or not, then you should go with that.

 

[Ravanosh]

Look at the history of conflict, and try to convince me that religions are not one of the main causes of wars.

Religious grounds have served as reasoning for a great deal of warfare throughout history, this is true. Our troubles in the middle-east are partly an extension of that fact.

Keep in mind however that religion is often manipulated by those "fighting for it" in order to serve their own purposes. At this point religion becomes nothing more than justification for actions. It is quite possible these actions could have been excused via other methods not involving religion, were it necessary to do so.

It is in large part the sheer prevalence and influence of religion that has lead to its involvement in so much conflict. Granted, there are many wars that were fought on purely religious grounds, but just as many wars have been fought for solely secular reasons that share a similar level of prevalence in society.

Also, I do acknowledge that most religions have been modified (or manipulated if you prefer) repeatedly since their inception. And yes, such amendments have often been made for the purposes of gaining control of the masses and securing positions of power.

These were loopholes exploited by devious individuals and organizations operating in a religiously dominated environment, in some cases a theocracy. However, modern governments are just as guilty of exploiting secular law to their advantage.

No system of societal guidance is exempt from the manipulations of those hungry for power.

Ravanosh,
You have no reason to explain your spiritual values here, nor abase them.
If you feel that you have something to offer to the soldier, whether he be
Christian or not, then you should go with that.

I have some difficulty envisioning a role in the Chaplaincy without a focus on spirituality. My intention throughout this thread has been rationalize my position, while at the same time gauging the response of forum members to philosophical discussion and debate.

 

[mariomike]

For what it is worth, there are similar topics:

Chaplains:
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/89181/post-875781.html#msg875781

Chaplains:
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/59190/post-549787.html#msg549787

 

[KrazyHamburglar]

Also, I do acknowledge that most religions have been modified (or manipulated if you prefer) repeatedly since their inception. And yes, such amendments have often been made for the purposes of gaining control of the masses and securing positions of power.

Just for the sake of discussion...

How do you make a difference between what religion was suppose to be at the beginning and what has been added with time? If most amendments were made to gain control of the masses, isn't it possible that, if we go back at the beginning, religion was created as a political lever?
Also, since you acknowledge the manipulation of religion for political purposes, how do you know that your beliefs doesn't come directly from one of those "unholy" transformations?


Die Religion ist das Opium des Volkes ... indeed my dear Karl... indeed

 

[Jarnhamar]

Ravanosh,

It seems that you are over-thinking this. While I respect your beliefs in a spiritual universe (One of my majors was religious studies), you have created an error in your career priorities.

As a Canadian Forces Chaplain, your first duty is to your country and your fellow personnel. Canada is a democratic state, not a theocracy. Liberté, égalité, fraternité are essentially what will become your trinity. While spiritual advice and counsel is a very large part of the job, you will be completely beholden to the ideologies of Canada and its military. The taxpayers are paying your salary, not anyone or anything else. There may even be times when you may be asked to implicitly support something that contradicts your weltpolitik or theological beliefs. You'll have to reconcile that with yourself.


I've noticed your tag of 'Paladin', and frankly I believe you should rethink it. You give off the aura that you seriously style yourself as some righteous crusader. I think that can be a dangerous mindset. I would seriously caution you about using those wide brush strokes of 'good' and 'evil'. There are many people on both sides of the fence who fit into one of the categories, both, or neither. You seem to be respectful and humble, but I think that your humility is facetious, and you believe you are unequivocally right in everything you profess. You lecture other posters that they should keep their minds open and look for new answers; you should truly take your own advice. You deride other posters for not having the same mindset of what you've come to believe, yet in every major religious text there are passages telling us not to believe those lies spoken by people claiming it is God's truth.


If you want to be a true servant of God, beholden only to the word that you interpret, then join the clergy of whatever faith you profess. If you want to be a true servant of your fellow man, then keep thinking about the Canadian Forces.

Ravanosh,
This is perhaps one of the best pieces of advice I've seen for someone in all my years here. It's incredably insightful and I believe pegs you to a T.
Self stylising yourself as a Holy Crusader/Knight in shinning armor might not be the best approach for you entering into the CF.