Supply Tech Ettiquette
- Thread starter Jarnhamar
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All I know is I am now down to my last pair of presentable combat pants and supply considers it my problem as they are out of stock. My replacement boots have been on order for 6 months and they no longer exchange the green combat socks as they are out of the system (so they say). sigh
So I guess they are saving the good stuff for when the Regs need me to fill a slot on a Roto. Not when I spend 2 months in the field supporting them every summer.
So I guess they are saving the good stuff for when the Regs need me to fill a slot on a Roto. Not when I spend 2 months in the field supporting them every summer.
- Reaction score
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Gunnerlove said:
Yep. It's called boondoggle. Blame the librals not the Supply Techs. All government contracts (guess what? That includes ours!!) are handled by PWGSC (Public Works & Government Services Canada). So....when the auditor freezes all the contracts because of Adscam/inquiries etc things tend to be depleted from the system. And hey it's not just the CF...all Govnt depts are just now getting back to business because of this.
Perhaps a little thinking about what you are whining about will do a lot to dispel the myth of the Supply hoarding/hiding the stock just so YOU can't have it. Waiting for you to build that bridge because I find it hard to believe that anyone with any military experience has not realized that the CF is a Federal Institution who buys/replenishes via contracts via PWGSC. I don't work for PWGSC...no Sup Tech does...don't blame us for problems in that federal dept.
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[me=madpat]smashes head into keyboard... filled the page with a response then accidentally went back a page. lots of typing... round two![/me]
To the first poster. I am a reservist SupTech private, I am the type of person that you see behind the counter telling you that you can't have any kit. Let me try and fit myself into the shoes of the person you saw there. In my QM we have a bunch of half shelters, some brand new still in the box, some returned from people as they left the forces. We have no stock of NS half shelters, anything that is returned to us because it is broken gets tagged and sent upstream for R and D. When we issue out a half shelter the general rule of thumb we use is the old out first. Why do we hoard the new ones? The simple reason is they are still packed really nice and tight in the box they were shipped in, they are easy to count and store well, the returned ones take up about twice as much room each as the new and get mixed together, making stock taking more difficult. When some one asks for a ground sheet either for initial issue or replacement we grab any used ones first. If the person is asking for an exchange and is bringing in a used ground sheet that has no obvious damage to it and is in as good as or better condition to the ones we have in stock we will have a few questions. We are not there to replace your kit with the newest in the system because yours got a little dirty. Declaring items NS and getting them replaced is more paper work and time then we want if the items are still useable. I recall we had a few duffel bags that had small rips and one a broken zipper pull, I was at ASU when they went through our load and their eyes lit up seeing them... they were out of stock so even though there were slight rips the items went into stock... even though we had tagged them as busted.
As far as the LOG officer getting less trouble at the QM... quick question, if your boss asks you to do something lawfull and within the rules do you question him? At my unit I have a bunch of people that I have to deal with every day, people that basically have the power over my job and career and if grabbing a half shelter from the new box makes him happy and saves me having to explain to the person who decides if I ever get on course, or get promoted or get that class B contract I have been asking for why his half shelter is poorly folded and why it has someone else's name on it, I might be tempted to just do that.
The other cases including the jacket, I know for one that we do not hold stock of the old combat jackets. We don't actually hold stock of the new jackets either so if your jacket is NS you are SOL. And as stated before, it is against the rules to have soldiers running around in NS shredded jackets. On the wind pants, I don't have them. I have never bothered going after them even though I am entitled to them.
As far as for the troop with no presentable pants, like your boots new ones were likely ordered. If the system doesn't have any then you won't get any. Feel free to hate the bin rat that refuses to give you what he doesn't have, but most of us lack the magical ability to create CADPAT by clicking our fingers.
The questions about what limitations the current computer system has have mostly been answered. Using MIMS a sup tech can review or print your entire IA... anyone in the systems IA. They can also review entitlements of individual items to see if you are supposed to get it or if that one you got but left at home is the only one you are entitled to have. Also on MIMS you can review all the outstanding requisitions to see at what stage the order is at. If you boots were "ordered" 6 months ago you might want to ask your QM what the status of the order is. I know that some units have problems with lack of computer access. A suptech I did my threes with who's working with the local reserve medics has informed me that their QM has no computers and anything they want done must be done through 2227s sent to ASU. My unit had (up until a week or two ago) read access only to MIMS. We could review peoples accounts to our hearts delight and peer at every transaction currently underway, but we couldn't order a single item for anyone. If anyone wanted kit we had to do up a 2227 and send it off to ASU where they would do the MSO140. I still only have read only, they only have just put enough trust in the Sgt to let her start ordering stuff.(not sure if she has the ability to make adjustments) One problem that had plagued us was orders not being done. Some times we would not get around to sending it to ASU, sometimes ASU wouldn't bother inputing it into MIMS but even though your order went into the QM a year ago doesn't guarantee anything has happened with it beyond the sup tech telling you that yes the paperwork was done, it will get here when it gets here.
To the first poster. I am a reservist SupTech private, I am the type of person that you see behind the counter telling you that you can't have any kit. Let me try and fit myself into the shoes of the person you saw there. In my QM we have a bunch of half shelters, some brand new still in the box, some returned from people as they left the forces. We have no stock of NS half shelters, anything that is returned to us because it is broken gets tagged and sent upstream for R and D. When we issue out a half shelter the general rule of thumb we use is the old out first. Why do we hoard the new ones? The simple reason is they are still packed really nice and tight in the box they were shipped in, they are easy to count and store well, the returned ones take up about twice as much room each as the new and get mixed together, making stock taking more difficult. When some one asks for a ground sheet either for initial issue or replacement we grab any used ones first. If the person is asking for an exchange and is bringing in a used ground sheet that has no obvious damage to it and is in as good as or better condition to the ones we have in stock we will have a few questions. We are not there to replace your kit with the newest in the system because yours got a little dirty. Declaring items NS and getting them replaced is more paper work and time then we want if the items are still useable. I recall we had a few duffel bags that had small rips and one a broken zipper pull, I was at ASU when they went through our load and their eyes lit up seeing them... they were out of stock so even though there were slight rips the items went into stock... even though we had tagged them as busted.
As far as the LOG officer getting less trouble at the QM... quick question, if your boss asks you to do something lawfull and within the rules do you question him? At my unit I have a bunch of people that I have to deal with every day, people that basically have the power over my job and career and if grabbing a half shelter from the new box makes him happy and saves me having to explain to the person who decides if I ever get on course, or get promoted or get that class B contract I have been asking for why his half shelter is poorly folded and why it has someone else's name on it, I might be tempted to just do that.
The other cases including the jacket, I know for one that we do not hold stock of the old combat jackets. We don't actually hold stock of the new jackets either so if your jacket is NS you are SOL. And as stated before, it is against the rules to have soldiers running around in NS shredded jackets. On the wind pants, I don't have them. I have never bothered going after them even though I am entitled to them.
As far as for the troop with no presentable pants, like your boots new ones were likely ordered. If the system doesn't have any then you won't get any. Feel free to hate the bin rat that refuses to give you what he doesn't have, but most of us lack the magical ability to create CADPAT by clicking our fingers.
The questions about what limitations the current computer system has have mostly been answered. Using MIMS a sup tech can review or print your entire IA... anyone in the systems IA. They can also review entitlements of individual items to see if you are supposed to get it or if that one you got but left at home is the only one you are entitled to have. Also on MIMS you can review all the outstanding requisitions to see at what stage the order is at. If you boots were "ordered" 6 months ago you might want to ask your QM what the status of the order is. I know that some units have problems with lack of computer access. A suptech I did my threes with who's working with the local reserve medics has informed me that their QM has no computers and anything they want done must be done through 2227s sent to ASU. My unit had (up until a week or two ago) read access only to MIMS. We could review peoples accounts to our hearts delight and peer at every transaction currently underway, but we couldn't order a single item for anyone. If anyone wanted kit we had to do up a 2227 and send it off to ASU where they would do the MSO140. I still only have read only, they only have just put enough trust in the Sgt to let her start ordering stuff.(not sure if she has the ability to make adjustments) One problem that had plagued us was orders not being done. Some times we would not get around to sending it to ASU, sometimes ASU wouldn't bother inputing it into MIMS but even though your order went into the QM a year ago doesn't guarantee anything has happened with it beyond the sup tech telling you that yes the paperwork was done, it will get here when it gets here.
- Reaction score
- 114
- Points
- 680
Well, I just have a couple of things regarding the last post:
The customer is NEVER SOL. Because if you happen to have none in stock it is your job to input the MSO140 and demand it (via ASU if necessary). Period. Not to "maybe get around" to sending the paperwork to them...or not. Just do it.
Why don't you have any of the old combat jackets in stock? I understand why you have no gortex...because there simply is none of that to be had (and no, I can't knit it either). But, last time I checked CANFORGENs were also applicable to your Unit. Units are to stock and issue the combat jacket as an in-lieu of item (as per CANFORGEN) when a customer requires either an initial issue of a jacket or an exchange of a jacket and you have no IECS in their size. Why is this?? Exactly so that the customer is not SOL. After all it's winter...he needs a coat, I'm sure you've got one. It's all comes down to common sense not luck.
As for the slight tears in your returned duffle bags...that is the difference between 1st line Supply and 2nd line. First Line (you) get to tag it and send it back to the ASU/ASGs as NS. We (because we're 2nd line) have Mat Techs and Tailor Shops who repair those slight tears so that we can put them back into stock and another customer is happy and not SOL.
It is always the policy to issue the used gear first. That's SOP and in the books. Use the one that's going to expire first...first!! People do it with their milk at home all the time. But, here's the kicker...as a Supply Tech your job is to follow the rules and the books...not to favour certain people because of what it may be able to do for you. And when Supply Techs behind the counter "favour" whoever for whatever reason over another "less worthy/can't do anything for my career" customer...those Supply Techs deserve every bit of el toro poo poo that flies at them. And if it happened here in Gagetown, and I found about it...it would be noted under "shortcomings" on your PDR; and, word up....continued shortcomings is NOT going to get one promoted if one's leadership is doing it's job.
It is Supply Techs doing exactly the above (the diggers of new ground sheets) that gives those of us who actually enjoy our jobs and whose priority it is to do our jobs to the best of our ability no matter who the customer is...the bad name. Oy yoy yoy...glad I'm in Gagetown.
PS just FYI....there was a message out last year that stated that all ResF Clothing Dets were to be built into the CFSS and to have access by 31 Mar 05. Me thinks perhaps you should address this with your supervisor.
The customer is NEVER SOL. Because if you happen to have none in stock it is your job to input the MSO140 and demand it (via ASU if necessary). Period. Not to "maybe get around" to sending the paperwork to them...or not. Just do it.
Why don't you have any of the old combat jackets in stock? I understand why you have no gortex...because there simply is none of that to be had (and no, I can't knit it either). But, last time I checked CANFORGENs were also applicable to your Unit. Units are to stock and issue the combat jacket as an in-lieu of item (as per CANFORGEN) when a customer requires either an initial issue of a jacket or an exchange of a jacket and you have no IECS in their size. Why is this?? Exactly so that the customer is not SOL. After all it's winter...he needs a coat, I'm sure you've got one. It's all comes down to common sense not luck.
As for the slight tears in your returned duffle bags...that is the difference between 1st line Supply and 2nd line. First Line (you) get to tag it and send it back to the ASU/ASGs as NS. We (because we're 2nd line) have Mat Techs and Tailor Shops who repair those slight tears so that we can put them back into stock and another customer is happy and not SOL.
It is always the policy to issue the used gear first. That's SOP and in the books. Use the one that's going to expire first...first!! People do it with their milk at home all the time. But, here's the kicker...as a Supply Tech your job is to follow the rules and the books...not to favour certain people because of what it may be able to do for you. And when Supply Techs behind the counter "favour" whoever for whatever reason over another "less worthy/can't do anything for my career" customer...those Supply Techs deserve every bit of el toro poo poo that flies at them. And if it happened here in Gagetown, and I found about it...it would be noted under "shortcomings" on your PDR; and, word up....continued shortcomings is NOT going to get one promoted if one's leadership is doing it's job.
It is Supply Techs doing exactly the above (the diggers of new ground sheets) that gives those of us who actually enjoy our jobs and whose priority it is to do our jobs to the best of our ability no matter who the customer is...the bad name. Oy yoy yoy...glad I'm in Gagetown.
PS just FYI....there was a message out last year that stated that all ResF Clothing Dets were to be built into the CFSS and to have access by 31 Mar 05. Me thinks perhaps you should address this with your supervisor.
- Reaction score
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- Points
- 60
M y first set of combat boots (I was only entitled to 1 pair) had 3 crossed ou names in them. (91)
I showed up and tried to exchange a canteen after a recruit kit draw. Mine was cracked and I was going to the field. I was told to make do without as they d idn't have my docs and my copy wasn't correctly stamped (94? 95?)
When I was on leadership course I turned in a pair of boots that tore. The next set of boot I laced up and the stitching went out on the right away due to faulty manufacture. So, I exchanged those, via the Base clothing stores. They handed me back the set of boots I had turned in as N/S in the first place. (98)
The same course a supply tech actually ran about a km outside the QM to get back goretex socks that I wasn't entitled to that he had issued, when he realized I was a reservist.
I attempted to turn in a set of mukluks which had lost the glue on the rubber and had a hole each in them. The supply tech at the counter refused as they were still "80% servicable". I reported this to my Sgt Maj and got my first brand new set ever of mukluks. (03) I didn't really like the sup tech anyway and was kinda glad tho.
A new soldier in my (Reg) unit had goretex socks issued when he was an untrained recruit in Gagetown. He went to trade them in and had them taken off his docs and no replaced as a fully trained combat arms soldier in another base, as he was no longer entitled to them. (04)
I went in to exchange my rucksack which had exploded due to carrying heavy weight in it. I rejected the first 3 (previously used)rucksacks presented to me at the counter as they were unservicable. (05)
No matter what anyone says reserves and Regs, officers and NCO's _will_ be treated differently at the counter; it's only human nature. The difference is how you fix the problem when it occours. A phone call from a WO or Sgt Maj down to base supply _does_ do wonders. Also a phone call down to them before you go in to ask about availabilty scales of issue, special issues for exercises etc, before getting mad at the guy behind the counter helps.
Dealing with a supply tech who was an ex combat arms type is SO much easier as they understand how the equipment is used what the real needs are etc. A lot of supply techs go out of their way to help, but 1 jerk in a shop of 15 guys will give the whole shop a bad name. This is exactly a jr/sr supervisor area of responsability.
I showed up and tried to exchange a canteen after a recruit kit draw. Mine was cracked and I was going to the field. I was told to make do without as they d idn't have my docs and my copy wasn't correctly stamped (94? 95?)
When I was on leadership course I turned in a pair of boots that tore. The next set of boot I laced up and the stitching went out on the right away due to faulty manufacture. So, I exchanged those, via the Base clothing stores. They handed me back the set of boots I had turned in as N/S in the first place. (98)
The same course a supply tech actually ran about a km outside the QM to get back goretex socks that I wasn't entitled to that he had issued, when he realized I was a reservist.
I attempted to turn in a set of mukluks which had lost the glue on the rubber and had a hole each in them. The supply tech at the counter refused as they were still "80% servicable". I reported this to my Sgt Maj and got my first brand new set ever of mukluks. (03) I didn't really like the sup tech anyway and was kinda glad tho.
A new soldier in my (Reg) unit had goretex socks issued when he was an untrained recruit in Gagetown. He went to trade them in and had them taken off his docs and no replaced as a fully trained combat arms soldier in another base, as he was no longer entitled to them. (04)
I went in to exchange my rucksack which had exploded due to carrying heavy weight in it. I rejected the first 3 (previously used)rucksacks presented to me at the counter as they were unservicable. (05)
No matter what anyone says reserves and Regs, officers and NCO's _will_ be treated differently at the counter; it's only human nature. The difference is how you fix the problem when it occours. A phone call from a WO or Sgt Maj down to base supply _does_ do wonders. Also a phone call down to them before you go in to ask about availabilty scales of issue, special issues for exercises etc, before getting mad at the guy behind the counter helps.
Dealing with a supply tech who was an ex combat arms type is SO much easier as they understand how the equipment is used what the real needs are etc. A lot of supply techs go out of their way to help, but 1 jerk in a shop of 15 guys will give the whole shop a bad name. This is exactly a jr/sr supervisor area of responsability.
- Reaction score
- 114
- Points
- 680
Good point Daidolous about respect.
If anybody always seems to have nothing BUT problems when they go to clothing stores..perhaps there may be a reason for that occuring. Ie...someone always gives the counter staff a hard time or walks in with their attitude...tends to make a name for themself. I know quite a few who fall into this category...it's a 2 way street.
If anybody always seems to have nothing BUT problems when they go to clothing stores..perhaps there may be a reason for that occuring. Ie...someone always gives the counter staff a hard time or walks in with their attitude...tends to make a name for themself. I know quite a few who fall into this category...it's a 2 way street.
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Vern and Johny have good points but they do not address the main issue. No officers do not get special treatment as a general rule. Unless the Sup tech is a baglicker. As for reserves they should also receive the same level of service, kit and respect as any reg force personnel. Unless the Sup Tech is a jackazz. Unfortunatley in your scenario the Sup Tech is both a baglicker and jackazz and we all have this type in every trade. I personally have no use for either baglickers or jackazz's and if this was a member under my command he would wish he wasn't.
I will not stand for Inequitable treatment of anyone in my section or the military if I can help it. I Abhor favouritism of any kind and think it to be unprofessional and unethical. I personally appologize on behalf of all the good Sup Tech's if you or anyone reading this has been treated in such a manner. And yes I have been SHARP trained but I always fail at being Politically Correct.
I will not stand for Inequitable treatment of anyone in my section or the military if I can help it. I Abhor favouritism of any kind and think it to be unprofessional and unethical. I personally appologize on behalf of all the good Sup Tech's if you or anyone reading this has been treated in such a manner. And yes I have been SHARP trained but I always fail at being Politically Correct.
Halifax Tar
Army.ca Fixture
- Reaction score
- 11,132
- Points
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You know it all comes down to who you get behind the counter on any given day. Sup Techs are human too and we have the same problems and personal issues that our customers deal with (by the way in my eyes we don't have customers we have soldier, sailor's and airmen and airwomen). So give them a break too ok ? You know your boots may be the last thing on his mind because the night before he came home from work to find his wife in bed with hie neighbour or a whole slew of other scenarios. Good or bad right or wrong that's just the way it is.
Now some of you are going to say well that person should be removed from the counter and put somewhere where they can work alone or at least away from customers. Well that's great. It makes sense too but what unit in the CF actually has the man power to do that ? I know we don't in Halifax. We have the largest personnel base in Canada something in the area of 10-12 thousand people mil and civie to look out for and many times we are down to 2 Cpl/Pte working the counter.
Having said all this I agree you should make all the effort to fulfill the SOLDIERS requirements and then follow the SOPs if you cant fit them of the shelf but for petesakes give us a break ok.
Off on a side not here. I think a major issue with supply in the CF is the civilianization of it. I don't mean the civie workers I mean the way we conduct daily business. We have lost allot of the military aspect and that is what's causing allot of these etiquette issues were having.
WO Vern, I'm intrested to hear your take on my post, being the senior suptech on board and all. And I only mean senior by rank not by age
Now some of you are going to say well that person should be removed from the counter and put somewhere where they can work alone or at least away from customers. Well that's great. It makes sense too but what unit in the CF actually has the man power to do that ? I know we don't in Halifax. We have the largest personnel base in Canada something in the area of 10-12 thousand people mil and civie to look out for and many times we are down to 2 Cpl/Pte working the counter.
Having said all this I agree you should make all the effort to fulfill the SOLDIERS requirements and then follow the SOPs if you cant fit them of the shelf but for petesakes give us a break ok.
Off on a side not here. I think a major issue with supply in the CF is the civilianization of it. I don't mean the civie workers I mean the way we conduct daily business. We have lost allot of the military aspect and that is what's causing allot of these etiquette issues were having.
WO Vern, I'm intrested to hear your take on my post, being the senior suptech on board and all. And I only mean senior by rank not by age
- Reaction score
- 114
- Points
- 680
Halifax Tar said:WO Vern, I'm intrested to hear your take on my post, being the senior suptech on board and all. And I only mean senior by rank not by age
Well, I'll clarify that I am not the senior Sup Tech on this forum...
either in age or rank.Here's my take...
We all have bad days. Check it at the door when you walk into my section either to work or to get service. Customers and staff alike. Either way, if someone chooses, and it is a choice, to treat the person on the opposite side of the counter front them in a manner which is disrespectful, ignorant, rude, ill-informed, or shows favouritism towards rank or buddies etc....I will deal with it, and it usually doesn't end up pretty. You can trust me on that one.
All that you really need to do is remain professional, we are professionals after all.
- Reaction score
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My two cents:
I worked Clothing Stores in Gagetown for almost 3 years - most of it on the front counter. I saw all types on both sides of the counter, heard all kinds of stories and rumors, and probably even pissed a few people off. It all came down to one thing - scales. If you were entitled to it and I had it, it was yours. If I didn't have it, I ordered it for you. If you weren't entitled to it, I wasn't saying no, Ottawa said no a long time ago. I would have loved to give the infanteer that prized set of pilots gloves because taking an o group in the field on a cold day was impossible with the bulky gloves we had. But if I gave a pair to one, there were 50 at the counter the next day. It's all about precedence. As far as exchanges were concerned, our "bible" and "AIG" messages tells us that there are rules for that too. We follow them because we are Supply Techs.
Bottom line - every one has a bad day every now and then. The difference between me and the soldier who takes their bad day out on others is "professionalism".
My 2 cents.
PS - Vern, senior or not, you're still hot!! Miss ya babe.
I worked Clothing Stores in Gagetown for almost 3 years - most of it on the front counter. I saw all types on both sides of the counter, heard all kinds of stories and rumors, and probably even pissed a few people off. It all came down to one thing - scales. If you were entitled to it and I had it, it was yours. If I didn't have it, I ordered it for you. If you weren't entitled to it, I wasn't saying no, Ottawa said no a long time ago. I would have loved to give the infanteer that prized set of pilots gloves because taking an o group in the field on a cold day was impossible with the bulky gloves we had. But if I gave a pair to one, there were 50 at the counter the next day. It's all about precedence. As far as exchanges were concerned, our "bible" and "AIG" messages tells us that there are rules for that too. We follow them because we are Supply Techs.
Bottom line - every one has a bad day every now and then. The difference between me and the soldier who takes their bad day out on others is "professionalism".
My 2 cents.
PS - Vern, senior or not, you're still hot!! Miss ya babe.
- Reaction score
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Halifax Tar said:
I'm late chiming in here, but I will anyway.
I started off as an Infmn (bloody DECADES ago!!) - then I became an Adm Clk, then I became an RMS Clk (when the Log branch took us over).
I ALWAYS objected to the Fin and Sup habits of talking about the people at their counters as "customers" or "clients" - I always maintained that this habit was indicative of a "civilianization" of the service. As an Infmn and an Adm Clk, I NEVER thought I was dealing with "customers" - I ALWAYS thought I was dealing with soldiers. When they presented a problem, I SOLVED it, I didn't quote regulations to them (to be honest, this sometimes involved skating close to the edge, regulation wise).
This is not to say that there aren't outstanding Log types in service (as there always have been) who deal with soldier's problems expeditiously, just that we (the corporate "we") allowed too many MBAs into the service.
In short, I agree with the above quote.
- Reaction score
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- Points
- 680
I find that interesting. Calling pers "customers" in no way insinuates that one will not do their very best to "solve" problems on their behalves; if it is indeed within the regulations. As an RMS clerk Roy, I am quite sure that you did whatever you could within those regulations to assist your customers. It works the same for Supply. "Within" the regulations is indeed the operative word. And, like you, if the request made sense but is not within the regulations, then we address it and try to make the change. You didn't "quote" regulations but you certainly didn't circumvent those TB regulations either. TB regulations also play a direct role in the CF scales of entitlement used by Supply sections; after all it is the tax-payer who ultimately owns all that kit that needs to be accountable to them IAW those same regulations (just ask the auditor general).
As a side-note; MBAs really have nothing to do with the terminology "customer." I have never heard a customer referred to as a "client" in Supply. And my father, a Sup Tech served "customers" in the 60s as well. This IS NOT a new terminology to our trade. It has been called "Customer Service Section" forever and a day. I just want to clarify that.
Edited to add:
As a side-note; MBAs really have nothing to do with the terminology "customer." I have never heard a customer referred to as a "client" in Supply. And my father, a Sup Tech served "customers" in the 60s as well. This IS NOT a new terminology to our trade. It has been called "Customer Service Section" forever and a day. I just want to clarify that.
Edited to add:
Halifax Tar, I'm sad to hear that this may be the case in Halifax, it (civilianization) certainly isn't an issue at any of the Army bases I've been to. When "etiquette" is improper, for whatever reason, good supervisors deal with it...immediately.
- Reaction score
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I actually run Kittings/Releases at Clothing in Kingston, and RMC cadets are as on the bottom rung of the ladder as anyone in the Forces in total...
they get crap kit from St.Jean, they get crap from us... they are on par with CIC who has zero entitlement for field kit except for summer taskings, and when the time comes for them to return their kit, we are left sitting with a DND638 temp loan card with non-existant contact info... kiss those two sets of cadpat good-bye not to mention the free pair of MkIII's they just managed to scam.
If I had a dime for every time I had someone ask me for cadpat raingear I'd be a happily retired cpl... I had it all issued in Trenton when I worked there, and as soon as I set foot in Kingston, I got told, return it, or get rid of it... same with my tac vest....
everyone assumes the sup tech hoardes everything to themselves and it would look a lot better on my shelf than on your azz... which may be the case for some, but not me... If 1 CAD wants to buy raingear, that's up to them... and as soon as any airforce start chirping for clothe the soldier items, I show them the door with a huge grin... t ake it up with Ottawa if you feel that strong about it,
As far as the reserves go, they have supply techs (not many mind you) and they can order the same crap I can, in just as short a time... so that Reg Force/Reserve debate is a foregone conclusion. Even when I was in the Rigger shop in Trenton and a part of CPC we were still the last to get all the new kit issued there too... so...
they get crap kit from St.Jean, they get crap from us... they are on par with CIC who has zero entitlement for field kit except for summer taskings, and when the time comes for them to return their kit, we are left sitting with a DND638 temp loan card with non-existant contact info... kiss those two sets of cadpat good-bye not to mention the free pair of MkIII's they just managed to scam.
If I had a dime for every time I had someone ask me for cadpat raingear I'd be a happily retired cpl... I had it all issued in Trenton when I worked there, and as soon as I set foot in Kingston, I got told, return it, or get rid of it... same with my tac vest....
everyone assumes the sup tech hoardes everything to themselves and it would look a lot better on my shelf than on your azz... which may be the case for some, but not me... If 1 CAD wants to buy raingear, that's up to them... and as soon as any airforce start chirping for clothe the soldier items, I show them the door with a huge grin... t ake it up with Ottawa if you feel that strong about it,
As far as the reserves go, they have supply techs (not many mind you) and they can order the same crap I can, in just as short a time... so that Reg Force/Reserve debate is a foregone conclusion. Even when I was in the Rigger shop in Trenton and a part of CPC we were still the last to get all the new kit issued there too... so...
How you treat the person behind the counter is the most efficient way to dealing with kit issues.
When you have a problem ask for their name/rank and a written response to why there is a problem. Then let your Warrent have a copy and have them deal with it.
Scale of issue came up often when I was a Reservist. Not entitled to it or we have to keep that for the Reg's, or for issue to the Army.
One fine day I was going through scale of issue with the PO in charge, Good god What we found made both of our eyes bug out. Scale of issue for Regs was the same as a Reservist for the applicable trade I was in. He was shocked.
From then on it was less of a hassle. We even were issued things we never thought were possible and things I personally did not want, I mean who wants a parka when you live on the west coast.
We all have had good and bad expediences with dealing with Supply. Show up in a cheery mood, expect nothing more then they do their Job. Before handing over any clothing make sure you have the replacement piece in hand. If their is a need for the kit now then calmly explain this, most clothing stores carry a emergency supply of clothing they can issue out even if only temporary.
Do not accept kit or clothing that is worn out, does not fit and or other wise unacceptable. Better to not have a piece of kit then to have one that is bad. Make sure that you get a receipt and or written acknowledgement that you turned in one piece and was not reissued another and the reason for no issue. Again give this to your Warrent and let them sort it out.
At the end of the day avoid getting hostile and always use the utmost respect when dealing with the people behind the counter. 9 times out of 10 their boss will be on the phone to yours before you get back to work. Only to have to explain your side after the fact.
Request a copy of your supply docs once a year and review them, also ask for a copy of your trade entitlement.
refuse the thought of choking the person out behind the desk no matter how bad it gets, this applys to every person you deal with except the enemy.
When you have a problem ask for their name/rank and a written response to why there is a problem. Then let your Warrent have a copy and have them deal with it.
Scale of issue came up often when I was a Reservist. Not entitled to it or we have to keep that for the Reg's, or for issue to the Army.
One fine day I was going through scale of issue with the PO in charge, Good god What we found made both of our eyes bug out. Scale of issue for Regs was the same as a Reservist for the applicable trade I was in. He was shocked.
From then on it was less of a hassle. We even were issued things we never thought were possible and things I personally did not want, I mean who wants a parka when you live on the west coast.
We all have had good and bad expediences with dealing with Supply. Show up in a cheery mood, expect nothing more then they do their Job. Before handing over any clothing make sure you have the replacement piece in hand. If their is a need for the kit now then calmly explain this, most clothing stores carry a emergency supply of clothing they can issue out even if only temporary.
Do not accept kit or clothing that is worn out, does not fit and or other wise unacceptable. Better to not have a piece of kit then to have one that is bad. Make sure that you get a receipt and or written acknowledgement that you turned in one piece and was not reissued another and the reason for no issue. Again give this to your Warrent and let them sort it out.
At the end of the day avoid getting hostile and always use the utmost respect when dealing with the people behind the counter. 9 times out of 10 their boss will be on the phone to yours before you get back to work. Only to have to explain your side after the fact.
Request a copy of your supply docs once a year and review them, also ask for a copy of your trade entitlement.
refuse the thought of choking the person out behind the desk no matter how bad it gets, this applys to every person you deal with except the enemy.
- Reaction score
- 114
- Points
- 680
The Scales are available on the DIN from the DMMD web-site. No need to ask your Supply tech at clothing for one. The scales change constantly, and a print copy at the counter could be out of date tomorrow.
Always refer to the DIN scale as it is the most accurate and up-to-date; on the same site, ensure that you check the "messages" tab; as it will give you the details on 'unique' scale items. The messages are where you'd find out why, even though your scale says you are entitled by trade/course or ResF/RegF etc, why that item may be currently restricted or high-demand stock with a caveat on it, such as "Due to high Op tempo, RegF and ResF entitlement to Barrack boxes has been temporaily reduced by one each, despite what the scale says in order to prioritize issue to deploying personnel."
You don't like the way you're treated? Ask for the supervisor. It's really quite simple. Just remember that Sup techs deal with over 100 scales of entitlement, all with caveats, and all constantly changing. No one, not even the non-trade experts out there, can keep up with them all. If you believe that you are entitled to one, and are told no...simply ask them to show you the scale. For you Army guys, that's D01-301 Land Force Field Equipment Entitlement table. Perhaps it's changed overnight, which would not be unusual.
edited to add:
In ref to the earlier point about asking for a copy of your clothing IA. Good idea. And if you see something wrong, phone clothing and ask for an appointment to have a verification done on your docs. At the last Army Clothing working group in Ottawa that I attended, we requested that persons IAs (Electronic clothing docs) be made available on the EMAA web-site where you find all your other pers info. Hopefully, this happens, then you can check out your docs any time you want.
Always refer to the DIN scale as it is the most accurate and up-to-date; on the same site, ensure that you check the "messages" tab; as it will give you the details on 'unique' scale items. The messages are where you'd find out why, even though your scale says you are entitled by trade/course or ResF/RegF etc, why that item may be currently restricted or high-demand stock with a caveat on it, such as "Due to high Op tempo, RegF and ResF entitlement to Barrack boxes has been temporaily reduced by one each, despite what the scale says in order to prioritize issue to deploying personnel."
You don't like the way you're treated? Ask for the supervisor. It's really quite simple. Just remember that Sup techs deal with over 100 scales of entitlement, all with caveats, and all constantly changing. No one, not even the non-trade experts out there, can keep up with them all. If you believe that you are entitled to one, and are told no...simply ask them to show you the scale. For you Army guys, that's D01-301 Land Force Field Equipment Entitlement table. Perhaps it's changed overnight, which would not be unusual.
edited to add:
In ref to the earlier point about asking for a copy of your clothing IA. Good idea. And if you see something wrong, phone clothing and ask for an appointment to have a verification done on your docs. At the last Army Clothing working group in Ottawa that I attended, we requested that persons IAs (Electronic clothing docs) be made available on the EMAA web-site where you find all your other pers info. Hopefully, this happens, then you can check out your docs any time you want.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 60
Any supply tech can print your docs, it is a R,CDBI01A.
As for the scales, Librarian is 110% correct... entitlements in Kingston change almost daily...
CFSCE will get an item on Monday, tell all their buddies, and Friday it will change and the lucky one might get to keep whatever they've obtained... the smallpack is an ongoing almost draining issue in my WH...
On top of the D01-301 there are items from the D01-115 that are also available... if you can decipher the description(s) you are doing better than the average tech that has no Clothing experience.
The only consistentencies are the troops deploying as far as top-ups and anything Arid... not to mention the items they will get issued in Mirage (GenIII vests, GenIII plates, NBC gear....) I'm not at my desk where I usually quote them, and point to ponder, if you don't have a message, position ID at the least, you may not get kitted......
As for the scales, Librarian is 110% correct... entitlements in Kingston change almost daily...
CFSCE will get an item on Monday, tell all their buddies, and Friday it will change and the lucky one might get to keep whatever they've obtained... the smallpack is an ongoing almost draining issue in my WH...
On top of the D01-301 there are items from the D01-115 that are also available... if you can decipher the description(s) you are doing better than the average tech that has no Clothing experience.
The only consistentencies are the troops deploying as far as top-ups and anything Arid... not to mention the items they will get issued in Mirage (GenIII vests, GenIII plates, NBC gear....) I'm not at my desk where I usually quote them, and point to ponder, if you don't have a message, position ID at the least, you may not get kitted......
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 60
Hello everyone. I have worked on both sides of the counter, so I do feel for you all. I sujest you get a book called verbal judo. Its a great book in helping dealing with difficult situations verbaly. I hope this will help a bit, in letting the costomer understand the situation. It helped me many times. Both in and out of the relish. 
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
Actually, not to get nit-picky (I know someone will say something) but an R,CDBI01A will transfer a waybill into the NMDS and close it. An R,CDR892A or 121A will print your docs. Also, the scale D01-115 only applies to attach postings overseas as applicable to the attached posting message.
Vern, what an awesome idea!! I bet you had something to do with that one, huh?
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