• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Syria Superthread [merged]

57Chevy said:
                                        Shared with provisions of The Copyright Act

Multinational force massed on Jordanian-Syrian border as 55 killed in Damascus bombings
DEBKAfile 10 May
http://www.debka.com/article/21989/

Beset on two fronts, Bashar Assad rushed his elite Presidential Guard Division to Damascus Thursday, May 10, as two massive car bombs in the al Qaza district of Damascus demolished the command center of the Syrian military security service’s reconnaissance division, killing 55 people and injuring more than 300. Over  to the southeast, 12,000 special operations troops from 17 nations, including the US and other NATO members, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, were poised on the Jordanian side of the Syrian border for an exercise codenamed “Eager Lion.”

debkafile’s military sources also disclose that the bomb attack on Damascus was the most serious his regime had suffered against a military target since the 14-month Syrian uprising began. For the first time, Assad moved his most loyal unit, the Republican Guard Brigade, into central Damascus.

Western and Arab pressure is building up to an intolerable pitch for the Syrian president to step down and save his people from the descent into the ultimate agony of a full-blown civil war. It is coming from two directions:

1. Special forces units of the US, France, Britain, Canada and other NATO members have gathered in Jordan alongside Saudi, Jordanian and Qatari special units for a large-scale ten-day military exercise in Jordan starting May 15.

The exercise was set up by the US Special Operations Command Central. It is the Obama administration's message to the Islamic rulers of Iran, Bashar Assad and his Moscow backers, as well as its answer to the complaints from Arab and other Western governments that America is doing nothing to stop the horrors perpetrated in Syria.

Since all 12,000 troops massed in Jordan are commandos, they stand ready at all times to cross the border into Syria if this is deemed necessary.


2.  Syrian cities, especially the capital, are being targeted for violent bombing attacks designed to bring the Assad regime tumbling down. Behind these attacks are Persian Gulf emirates led by Saudi Arabia and Qatar. debkafile’s intelligence sources disclose they have been joined in the last few days for the first time by Turkey which is contributing intelligence input. The military pressure on the Assad regime is thus reinforced by a campaign of terror against its props.

No connection is admitted between the multinational force on the Jordanian-Syrian border and the spate of bombings. However, if Saudi or Qatari intelligence did play a hand in the Damascus bombings, their special forces in Jordan will have been in the picture.

What Debka is talking about is Ex Eager Lion 12 which is a large scale, multi-national exercise presently taking place in Jordan. Besides US, Jordanian, French, Turkish and Saudi participants, I couldn't find any of who the other participants are, let alone any Canadian involvement.

I'm sure, come Monday, Thomas Mulchair and Bob Rae we be asking the PM whether Canadian troops are involved.
 
The Syrian opposition is perhaps falling under the influence of radical groups, with serious consequences for the surrounding region. Of course, there is always a silver lining; if Syria collapses into civil war and drags Lebanon with it, a lot of Iranian attention will be drawn away from other issues as they work to salvage their allies and Isreal will receive a breather:

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/garfinkle/2012/05/11/syria-spins-out-of-control/

Syria Spins Out of Control
Adam Garfinkle

Yesterday’s massive bombings in Damascus portend a new stage of the Syrian crisis. The apparent involvement of al-Qaeda in Iraq in these bombings, and other evidence of the increased jihadi radicalization of the opposition movement, puts an end most likely to any prospect of an organized external military intervention in Syria.

That intervention was unlikely anyway, because the key actor in any such effort, the United States, absented itself long ago for reasons having to do with domestic politics. I suggested months ago a Turkish-led intervention, backed by the United States and NATO and the Arab League, designed to trigger a coup in Syria against the Assad regime. I suggested that along with that operation a diplomatic contact group be established to ease the transition to a better, perhaps even in some form a democratic, constitutional arrangement in Syria. The Obama Administration refused even to discuss the matter privately with the visiting Turkish Foreign Minister when he raised the question.

I (and others) also warned at the time that, absent an intervention to put an end to the conflict, the longer it went on, the more likely it would be radicalized. A very similar pattern manifested itself in Bosnia, and has done so also in other places. That warning now seems to have been validated.

I would be worried right now if I were a Lebanese. It is impossible to say if the Assad regime can hold out against a radicalized Syrian opposition, with volunteer support pouring in from neighboring countries. Most likely, in my view, it cannot. But it could take many months, even a year or two, for this bloody drama to play out. In the meantime, the conflict will pour across borders, including the Lebanese border, as it has already begin to do. If, in the fullness of time, a jihadi-led or strongly influenced state arises in Syria, or parts of it, then it is virtually inevitable that the Shi’a-tilted status quo in Lebanon will be upset. Sunni radicals in Damascus will not get along with Hizballah, and there are homegrown Sunni radicals in Lebanon that “friends” in Damascus would encourage and support on their behalf. The likely result? A new civil war, with a beginning epicenter most like in and around Tripoli.

I would also be concerned if I were an Iranian leader, because radical Sunnis in Damascus will not be able to get along with the mullahs in Iran either. From the U.S. point of view, that is not such a bad result, but losing its only state ally could nudge the Iranian leadership further toward the acquisition of nuclear weapons. In any event, the complexities of the three- and four-sided rivalries that will emerge in the region are very hard to predict, but the results will not be pretty or easily influenced by outside powers.

All of this is, of course, sort of tragic, because strong American leadership, a leadership that understood the strategic stakes involved in Syria and showed itself willing to take commensurate risks to secure them, probably could have prevented all this. Too late now.
 
A good reminder of Canadian troops overlooking the Golan between Israel and Syria.....
The escalating violence and unrest in Syria has added to the risks and challenges faced by Canadian Forces (CF) members working for the United Nations Disengagement Observer Force (UNDOF).

Recent events that have been widely reported in the media have added challenges to the entire UNDOF team, as well as the three Canadians who serve in it.  Maj Catry, a Royal Canadian Dragoon officer based out of CFB Kingston, has noted that because of the unrest in Syria, as well as Nakba and Naksa Day protests last year, UNDOF’s work load, tempo and intensity have increased dramatically in maintaining the peace in the Golan Heights.

As the Military Assistant/Advisor to the Force Commander of UNDOF and as the Force’s Senior Staff Officer for personnel respectively, Maj Catry says he and Lieutenant-Commander Rohe, a Royal Canadian Navy Finance Officer from Ottawa, are busier than usual dealing with contingency plans and preparations.

"“My job has changed in the sense that it has become busier and slightly more tension filled due to the increasingly more complex situation,”" says Maj Catry. "“Whenever UNDOF goes high-tempo, we go high-tempo.”"

Maj Catry says the recent events have made the environment more complex and risky, but adds that the experience the CF members have from previous deployments helps them adjust to the dynamic situation in Syria. They take care to identify and avoid problematic areas in Damascus, and keep their protective gear close at hand.

A key new addition to the team, however, is also providing helpful insight to both the CF team and UNDOF.  Major Islam Elkorazati deployed to the Golan Heights in September 2011 as the Liaison Officer to the Senior Syrian Arab Delegate. He joined Major Chris Catry and Lieutenant-Commander Peter Rohe as the newest member of Operation GLADIUS, the CF contribution to UNDOF as part of Canada’s support for peacekeeping operations in the region.

Maj Elkorazati is the communications link between UNDOF and the Syrian government regarding the Golan Heights, an area characterized by an ‘Area of Separation’ rather than a border between two nations technically still at war. He shares information with both offices and resolves issues between UNDOF and the Syrian government. The position was previously held by an officer from Ireland. At the request of Canada it became a position to be filled permanently by a CF officer last autumn .....
CEFCOM Info-machine, 15 May 12

More on OP Gladius (Canada's contribution to UNDOF) here, on the U.N. Disengagement Observer Force here and on whazzup in Syria here (Google News) and here (European Commission news aggregator)
 
Head of Intelligence: Assef Shawkat confirmed dead through poisoning. Though the SY media denied it, reports from the ground from multiple sources confirm he and 2 others are dead. It would be a great blow to the Syrian regime that may possibly cause cracks. Reports from Damascus indicate unusual military presence by the national guard.

Story carried by AFP: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hJof8hnDlLVeV_T9ydV8r0ekZYPg?docId=CNG.b474f90df2945e3d6ed3dcac07a3dceb.251

Speculation over 'killing' of Assad brother-in-law

(AFP) – 5 hours ago

BEIRUT — Speculation was rife on Wednesday among Syrian anti-regime activists over the alleged "killing" of President Bashar al-Assad's brother-in-law who is also Syria's deputy defence minister.

Assef Shawkat, former head of military intelligence, was poisoned, according to anti-regime activists. The authorities in Damascus could not be reached for comment and have not responded publicly to the claim.

According to anti-regime activists, Shawkat was being buried on Wednesday in his hometown, which they identified as Madhale, near the Mediterranean coastal city of Tartous.

Several activists quoted by Saudi-owned Al-Arabiya television said black flags were flying in Madhale in mourning.

On their Syrian Revolution Facebook page, online anti-regime activists wrote that: "Assef Shawkat is being buried right now in his home town Madhale ... God curse him. He was poisoned."

They said Shawkat's body was transported to a hospital near his hometown that was emptied of patients on Tuesday evening.

Speculation over Shawkat's fate first emerged on May 20 when Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya television broadcast an amateur video showing a man claiming responsibility on behalf of a rebel group for killing six regime stalwarts.

They included Shawkat, Interior Minister Mohammed al-Shaar, Defence Minister Daoud Rajha, national security chief Hisham Bakhtiar and Hassan Turkmeni, assistant to the vice president.

Turkmeni appeared on state television this week to dismiss the reports, while Shaar denied them in a telephone interview, accusing Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya of "lies and slander."

But Shawkat has not made any public appearance or personally denied the reports, though he rarely makes public statements.

According to Peter Harling, an expert on Syria with the Brussels-based International Crisis Group, the reports are "essentially unconfirmed for now.

"What is interesting is this story's success, regardless of its factual grounding," Harling told AFP. "A month ago, Syrians would not have believed, conveyed, invested in such news and it would not have spread.

"The regime then appeared particularly strong. Now there is a sense that the armed opposition is on the offensive."

A member of the inner circle of former Syrian president Hafez al-Assad and his son Bashar, Shawkat rose quickly through the ranks of power after he married the late leader's only daughter, Bushra, in the 1990s.

But Shawkat's relations with the Assad clan were not always smooth. Bashar's powerful brother Maher al-Assad allegedly shot him in the stomach in 1999.

The two men were named in leaked version of a preliminary UN report as possible suspects in the 2005 assassination of Lebanese ex-premier Rafiq Hariri.

Copyright © 2012 AFP
 
Crisis Management Team leaders were poisioned but survived

Source: http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/syrian-rebels-tried-to-kill-assad-s-top-aides-israeli-officials-confirm-1.432505

A senior Israeli official said the information obtained indicates that the food at the meeting really was poisoned. "All those who ate the food were rushed to the hospital and saved at the last minute by medical attendants," he said. "The bodyguard who slipped the poison in was smuggled out of Syria."

Another Israeli official said the information published by the Syrian opposition after the incident is deemed credible by Israel. "There was an attempt to poison Shawkat and the other senior officials, but it failed, and all those who were at the meeting are still alive," he said.
 
                          From Spiegel and shared with provisions of The Copyright Act

The World from Berlin
'Only Russia Can Exert Influence on Syria'
30 May
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-prospects-for-a-political-solution-in-syria-a-835977.html


On Tuesday, the diplomatic war began in earnest. With the United Nations citing indications that many of the 108 people killed in last Friday's massacre in Houla, Syria were executed by pro-government militiamen, several Western nations expelled Syrian diplomats. In a coordinated move, the United States, Britain, Germany, Canada, Australia, Bulgaria, Spain, Italy, France and Switzerland all told Syrian ambassadors in their countries that they would have to leave. Japan did the same on Wednesday.

There has been widespread international outrage over the bloodshed, in which dozens of children also lost their lives -- many of them, according to eyewitnesses, having been shot in the head at close range. Nevertheless, it appears unlikely that the UN will authorize a military intervention. Both China and Russia on Wednesday reiterated their opposition to such a move.

Their comments came as French President François Hollande indicated on Wednesday that he would not rule out the possibility of a military intervention in the country. "It is dependent on me and the others to convince the Russians and the Chinese" not to veto military action in the United Nations Security Council, Hollande said. "We cannot allow Syrian President Bashar Assad to continue massacring his own people." Hollande plans to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday.

It seems unlikely that he will have any luck, though. Deputy Foreign Minister Gennady Gatilov said on Wednesday that Moscow remains categorically opposed to military intervention in Syria, Russian news agency Interfax reported. Meanwhile, a spokesman for the Chinese Foreign Ministry said on Wednesday that his country "opposes military intervention and does not support forced regime change." Even the US is against taking action, with White House Press Secretary Jay Carney saying that "we do not believe that further militarization of the situation in Syria at this point is the right course of action."

'Tipping Point'

The Houla massacre is thought to be the most horrifying slaughter so far in the months-long unrest in Syria. On Tuesday, the UN said that initial investigations concluded that fewer than 20 of those killed on Friday night lost their lives in the artillery bombardment launched by pro-regime fighters. Most of the rest were killed by summary executions, with eyewitnesses reporting gunmen sweeping through Houla stabbing and shooting victims to death.

It is clear, said UN rights spokesman Rupert Colville on Tuesday, "that this was an absolutely abominable event that took place in Houla, and at least a substantial part of it were summary executions of civilians -- women and children." He added that "at this point it looks like entire families were shot in their houses." The UN Human Rights Council announced on Wednesday that it plans to hold an emergency session on Friday to address the events in Houla.

Kofi Annan, special UN envoy to Syria, travelled to Damascus on Tuesday to urge Assad to stop the killing. After the meeting, he said the country was at a "tipping point" and urged Assad's troops and pro-regime militias to exercise restraint.

German commentators take a closer look at the situation again on Wednesday.

Center-left daily Süddeutsche Zeitung writes:

"The Syrian crisis has now reached a point which allows us to see how reality and diplomacy sometimes exist in parallel worlds. Diplomacy is the horrified statements from the foreign ministries; the expulsion of envoys who, as protocol would have it, must depart their host countries within 72 hours; and the international peace broker who really doesn't have anything left to broker, but shakes hands nonetheless. Reality is the tanks, the mortar fire and the mob which murders women and children on behalf of the Syrian regime."

"These two worlds no longer have anything to do with one another. The one is governed by the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations from April 18, 1961. The other is war. One shouldn't harbor any illusions: The tools of the one world will not be able to stop the murder in the other."

Left-leaning daily Die Tageszeitung writes:

"A civil war on the model of Lebanon is beginning to take shape in Syria -- one in which everyone seems to be fighting everyone. Ethno-religious motivations are mixing with political preferences, Shiite Alawis are being played against orthodox Christians and Sunni Muslims. And then there are the al-Qaida groups, jihadists and all manner of mercenaries who are involved in this war -- and that's not counting influence from Iran and the Gulf states. The regime has intentionally stoked the conflict to present itself as a neutral guarantor of peace. In the wake of Houla, this lie has lost its last shred of credibility."

"After more than 10,000 dead in the Syrian revolt, only the most pigheaded can still believe that a political solution to the crisis can be achieved with the Assad regime. As such, the mission of Kofi Annan was predestined to fail because it presupposed that the Assad clan was able to arrive at a realistic assessment of the situation. But holding on to power is the only thing that counts for him. At any price."

"Not even the West is interested in a military intervention like the one in Libya, Russia and China also realize that fact. But a long civil war like the one that appears to be taking shape would likely hurt Russian and Chinese interests in the region more than a sudden overthrow of the despotic Assad clan. It is time to rethink things in Beijing and Moscow."

Financial daily Handelsblatt writes:

"After the Houla massacre, the rifts are so deep and the anger so intense that any political efforts seem doomed to failure. Yet diplomacy nevertheless offers the only way out of the difficult situation. The UN cannot fulfil the task, at least not alone. It has neither the means nor the strength. Its half-hearted resolutions, appeals and threats have all missed their mark. As long as the UN Security Council does not speak powerfully with a single voice, Assad can continue his inhuman activities unhindered. The Europeans and Americans are too busy with themselves at the moment to even consider a dangerous military intervention."

"The only power that can exert a certain amount of influence on Damascus is Russia. In Syria, however, Russia has an ally that offers it strategically vital access to the Middle East and it cannot give that up. Which is why the Russian government continues to protect Assad, even if it has become visibly more uncomfortable for Moscow to do so. But even Moscow must slowly realize that a diplomatic solution, which Russia has insisted it wants, is no longer possible with Assad. Therefore, the only option is to force Assad to give up power. And only Moscow could do that."

Conservative daily Die Welt writes:

"Expelling an ambassador is the strongest weapon available to diplomacy. But that won't put an end to the public outrage (over the Houla massacre). The United Nations have pinpointed the pro-regime shabiha militia as being responsible for this crime against humanity. It might be that President Assad does not personally lead this group of fighters, but he is ultimately responsible when his people are murdered by marauding mercenaries. In Syria, the chain of command ends with him, the dictator. Personal weakness does not protect one from culpability."

"Nevertheless, it is right of UN special envoy Kofi Annan to cling to his peace plan. Because it is still not too late for a 'Yemeni solution,' which would involve the Assad clan stepping down in exchange for political exile. Some might find that dissatisfying because it would allow Assad to escape justice. But any other solution to the Syrian tragedy would cost a much greater price in bloodshed."
Charles Hawley
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I believe that soldiers of civilized nations do not take too kindly the massacre of civilians, especially women,
and so much more of little children.
That is one big reason why Nations have soldiers.
IMO, the Houla massacre will not only cause a rift, but also the beginning of a separation between a Nuclear Iran
and a Syrian madman.
I agree that Moscow must exert its influence.
 
Did a search, but not sure if this is the right thread for this story; if not, please move it.  This is from the AP via CBC, reproduced here under the Fair Dealings provision of the Copyright Act.  http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/05/30/houla-massacre-syrian-boy.html

My heart goes out to this kid. 

"How an 11-year-old survived Houla massacre"

When the gunmen began to slaughter his family, 11-year-old Ali el-Sayed says he fell to the floor of his home, soaking his clothes with his brother's blood to fool the killers into thinking he was already dead.

The Syrian boy tried to stop himself from trembling, even as the gunmen, with long beards and shaved heads, killed his parents and all four of his siblings, one by one.

The youngest to die was Ali's brother, six-year-old Nader. His small body bore two bullet holes —one in his head, another in his back.

"I put my brother's blood all over me and acted like I was dead," Ali told The Associated Press over Skype on Wednesday, his raspy voice steady and matter-of-fact, five days after the killing spree that left him both an orphan and an only child.
.....
By most accounts, the gunmen descended on Houla from an arc of nearby villages, making the deaths all the more horrifying because the victims could have known their attackers.

Ali, the 11-year-old, said his mother began weeping the moment about 11 gunmen entered the family home in the middle of the night. The men led Ali's father and oldest brother outside.

"My mother started screaming 'Why did you take them? Why did you take them?"' Ali said.

Soon afterward, he said, the gunmen killed Ali's entire family.

As Ali huddled with his youngest siblings, a man in civilian clothes took Ali's mother to the bedroom and shot her five times in the head and neck.

"Then he left the bedroom. He used his flashlight to see in front of him," Ali said. "When he saw my sister Rasha, he shot her in the head while she was in the hallway."

Ali had been hiding near his brothers Nader, 6, and Aden, 8. The gunmen shot both of them, killing them instantly. He then fired at Ali but missed.

"I was terrified," Ali said, speaking from Houla, where relatives have taken him in. "My whole body was trembling."

Ali is among the few survivors of the massacre, although it was impossible to independently corroborate his story. The AP contacted him through anti-regime activists in Houla who arranged for an interview with the child over Skype.

Days after the attack, many victims remain missing.

Ali can describe the attack on his family. But al-Qassem said the full story of the massacre may never emerge.

"There are no eyewitnesses of the massacre," he said. "The eyewitnesses are all dead."



 
Russia is playing with fire. On one hand they're claiming to be a broker for peace. They do abruptly come out and claim they don't want military intervention or armament of the opposition to prevent civil war. However, their actions show something different. Their supply ships docking with ammunition and fuel to the Syrian regime: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hXTte72iC-_0AsX7TRnPxIGEeBng?docId=CNG.d99aea8c4dec4723aea914b35c1dd520.f71 
US envoy slams 'reprehensible' Russia arms sales to Syria

I don't believe the US or Europe is waiting on Russia's approval or not of any military intervention. The Russian know that Assad regime in all eventuality going to be removed from power. Yet, they've still not offered an alternative solution.

The fractured opposition and the weak militia with very little communication or structure is probably the only cause for this prolonged crisis. The West does not want to risk armed soldiers on the ground, and Turkey will not intervene unless directly attacked. So Syria is at a stand still until something new comes along.
 
From Hansard yesterday:
Mr. Paul Dewar (Ottawa Centre, NDP):  Mr. Speaker, if you seek it I believe you would find unanimous consent for the following motion on Syria. I move, seconded by the Minister of International Cooperation and the member for Mount Royal:

    That the House continue to support measures which
(a) condemn the brutal massacre of Syrian civilians by government forces in clear violation of earlier commitments;
(b) call for an immediate end to the violence, especially the attacks on civilians;
(c) support the Joint Special Envoy of the UN and Arab League efforts to establish a ceasefire and implement the six-point peace plan;
(d) call for unrestricted access to the country for the international media;
(e) support the government's decision to expel Syrian diplomats in protest to the latest atrocities in Syria;
(f) call on the international community to speak with one voice clearly and categorically condemning the violence and working to bring about a complete cessation of hostilities;
(g) urge the leadership of China and Russia to play an active and decisive role in achieving an effective ceasefire that saves the lives of innocent civilians as well as negotiating a road map to reforms that respond to the democratic aspirations of the Syrian people;
(h) continue Canada's humanitarian aid to refugees and to internally displaced persons fleeing violence in Syria, as needed, and;
(i) stand in solidarity with those who aspire for peace, democratic governance and the protection of human rights.


The Speaker:  Does the hon. member have the unanimous consent of the House to propose the motion?

Some hon. members: Agreed.

The Speaker: The House has heard the terms of the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Some hon. members: Agreed.

    (Motion agreed to)
 
More news from Syria.





http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/06/children-killed-bodies-burned-in-syrian-massacre-that-killed-86-opposition/
 
While there is no upside to the West getting involved in Syria, there is still a serious downside to the possible outcomes there. Watching the Saudis arm the rebles (and knowing the rebles are either radical Islamists or will be overtaken by them) is hardley encouraging news. The best possible outcome is most likely to let each side fight it out to a stalemate, horrible as it might sound. Often we are confronted by making the least bad choice:

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2012/06/09/the-real-news-from-syria/

The Real News From Syria

There’s a lot of noise coming out of Syria and the various international chat-fests being organized around it these days. Stern warnings from the State Department, charges and counter charges of massacres and atrocities on the ground in Syria, soothing platitudes from Kofi Anan, diplomatic warnings from Russia: most of it can be summarized as “blah, blah, blah.”

None of this has much bearing on what will happen. It is mostly posturing — the Russians are trying to look like they matter, the Turks want to look busy while minimizing their risks, the Americans want to feel good about themselves by mounting rhetorical assaults against atrocities they have no will to prevent, and so it goes. The legacy press covers this stuff because it can, and because it often buys into the establishment’s diplomatic narrative, but serious students of international affairs should not be misled: most of what is written about Syria these days is fluff and filler rather than news.

For insight into the future of Syria, try this story in the (paywall protected) Financial Times. Support for arming the rebels is growing, as Saudi Arabia, Qatar and wealthy Syrian expats and others step up funding for the military resistance to Assad.
The weapons being provided include light infantry arms and, increasingly, anti-tank weapons. Better armed rebels are credited with increasing the death toll among Assad’s soldiers as well as growing numbers of tanks destroyed.

Much of the funding comes from official channels, but it’s not clear who exactly is getting the money. While the “Free Syrian Army” is developing a more organized structure around the country, there are many groups in the chaotic resistance movements and, given the atmosphere of lawlessness and smuggling that has been a persistent feature in parts of Syria, it’s not at all clear where these weapons end up.

The FT also notes that radical and Salafist sheikhs and organizations in the Gulf are getting into the weapons delivery act. For many jihadis, the fight against Assad is first and foremost a struggle against Alawite “heretics”, and the goal is to build a radical Islamic state on the ruins of Ba’athist, secular Syria.

It’s been a classic Saudi ploy to keep the radicals quiet at home by letting them fight and support fighters abroad; this dates back at least as far as the war against the Soviets in Afghanistan and has been a pattern in many conflicts since. It seems likely that in this case, when the Saudi state interest in weakening Iran and strengthening the Saudi voice in both Lebanon and Damascus coincides with the jihadi hunger for a Syrian religious war, that Saudi authorities will see radical enthusiasm for Syria as an asset.

What’s happening in Syria is a true civil war, and like most civil wars it won’t come to an end until one side loses or until both sides realize that they can’t win. What the Arabs and others are doing to arm the rebels has much more to do with this war than the choreographed posturing of diplomats and the elegant pirouettes of moral concern performed by world leaders trying to make themselves look good against a background of chaos and blood.
Will the rebels get the strength and the international backing to drive Assad from power, or will Assad finally manage to crush his opponents once and for all? Or will a stalemate gradually emerge as both sides do everything they can, but neither can quite beat the other? If the rebels do start to succeed, who will win the power struggle among the many different factions into which the regime’s enemies are divided?

Those are the real questions in Syria, and understanding the flow of money and arms to rebel groups is almost infinitely more important than following the travel schedule of Kofi Annan as we try to see what comes next.
 
While there is no upside to the West getting involved in Syria, there is still a serious downside to the possible outcomes there. Watching the Saudis arm the rebles (and knowing the rebles are either radical Islamists or will be overtaken by them) is hardley encouraging news. The best possible outcome is most likely to let each side fight it out to a stalemate, horrible as it might sound. Often we are confronted by making the least bad choice:

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2012/06/09/the-real-news-from-syria/

doing nothing right now means allowing Syria to get down to a very deep civil war with hundreds of thousands of people killed or murdered. The recent events in Tripoli, Lebanon also serve a reminder that what happens in Syria will affect the whole region as a whole.

I still think the UN will do something once the death toll reaches the magic number of 100,000 killed. When it is too little, too late.

Radical Islamists need empathy to rise in Syria. Syria had never elected a radical gov't before. Most of the population is considered moderate if not liberated, especially in the major cities. I can't see an Iranian style islamists take over. The only worry that if this situations continues with the status quo that Islamists will gain more sympathy (out of desperation...).

In other news, Syrian National Council elected a new leader from the Kurdish-Syrian minority. UK PM saying Syria resmebles Bosnia in 1990s. The city of Homs resmebles Sarajevo in many aspects. Many parts of the city are deserted with only FSA members and families whom have no where else to go are holding the grounds. The Syrian army on the outskirts with artillery fire and many attempts to push through the FSA controlled areas.  The Syrian army is sending more logistical support to the province of Homs. Surprisingly, most of the equipment is made for urban warfare (little if any tanks), mostly pickup trucks with machine guns mounted at the backز

 
I still think the UN will do something once the death toll reaches the magic number of 100,000 killed. When it is too little, too late.
[/quote]

Tiamo, how many people died in the African debacles such as Rwanda or Somalia? I don't think large numbers of civilian deaths will make any difference to UN effectiveness in dealing with this situation.
 
I tried to vote in the poll at the top of this page, then realized it's almost a year old.  Maybe it's time for an updated poll on foreign intervention in Syria-?   
 
Radical Islamists only need to be the baddest cats in the valley of death; once everyone else is cowed into inaction they can rape and pillage to their heart's content. Since they are already organized and supplied by outside backers, they have huge advantages over any home grown opposition, just ask the Egyptians.

The death count is irrelevant to the UN. Look at what happened in the Sudan; tens of thousands of people dead were obviously some sort of coincidence; no genocide there...
 
If Debka.com is to be believed....
US President Barack Obama has ordered the US Navy and Air Force to accelerate preparations for a limited air offensive against the Assad regime and the imposition of no-fly zones over Syria, debkafile reports. Their mission will be to knock out Assad’s central regime and military command centers so as to shake regime stability and restrict Syrian army and air force activity for subduing rebel action and wreaking violence on civilian populations.
debkafile’s sources disclose that the US President decided on this step after hearing Russian officials stating repeatedly that “Moscow would support the departure of President Bashar al-Assad if Syrians agreed to it.”  This position was interpreted as opening up two paths of action:
1.  To go for Assad’s removal by stepping up arms supplies to the rebels and organizing their forces as a professional force able to take on the military units loyal to Assad. This process was already in evidence Friday, June 8, when for the first time a Syrian Free Army (which numbers some 600 men under arms) attacked a Syrian army battalion in Damascus. One of its targets was a bus carrying Russian specialists.
2.  To select a group of high army officers who, under the pressure of the limited air offensive, would be ready to ease Assad out of power or stage a military coup to force him and his family to accept exile ....
 
Thucydides said:
Radical Islamists only need to be the baddest cats in the valley of death; once everyone else is cowed into inaction they can rape and pillage to their heart's content. Since they are already organized and supplied by outside backers, they have huge advantages over any home grown opposition, just ask the Egyptians.

The death count is irrelevant to the UN. Look at what happened in the Sudan; tens of thousands of people dead were obviously some sort of coincidence; no genocide there...

Many Radical Islamist groups are directly armed and supported by the US government. The Egyptian crisis was a successful revolution but all these revolutions have had US involvement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSNyPS0fXpU  All these wars were planned. US Empire is obviously behind schedule with their plans, they always have France and UK on board with their plans, both significant former Imperial Powers.

Libya was the same and Canada supported this war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pgim5hS7qiE  CIA spotted with Libyan Rebels.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=XorKTwkFPDU&NR=1  This was the Libya before the war, a benevolent dictatorship in my opinion.
 
I heard a report this morning describing another attack on another Syrian town and the local person being quoted said, apparently, that the attackers were from the next village - and they had many old scores to settle with the victim village. The reporter/commentator suggested that both sides, the Syrian administration and the opposition (whoever and whatever that is, are both exploiting local feuds to further their ends. Elsewhere, here on Army.ca, a senior member agreed with me that many of the problems in a different region (Africa) are "tribal" in nature; I suspect that we have at least some of the same thing in the Middle East: opposing forces (governments and insurgents) can and will exploit intrareligious (Sunni vs Shia, Alawites vs other Sias and Sunnis, and so on) and local differences to fight proxy battles.

In my opinion we - the UN members who pay the bills - ought not to do anything to exacerbate the current problems, and that includes (my opinion again) taking military action or offering military aid. (Heaven knows if here's one thing we do not need more of in Africa and the Middle east it's weapons.)
 
Back
Top