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The Agent Orange and Its Repercussions Thread

Thank you Armyvern, I may have responded a bit to quickly.. but it was the
So why stress about it now? Sit back, see what happens
that basically caused my reaction....

and your right, I/we do see a conspiracy of lying and denying....
For any that would like to view the Committee meeting from Nov17.. It will be aired today on CPAC, the Canadian Parliamentary channel.

NATIONAL DEFENCE

Sunday, November 20 at 12PM ET / 9AM PT

Members convened on November 17 for a briefing session on Agent Orange. Among the witnesses was Kenneth Dobbie from the Agent Orange Association of Canada.
 
Thu 24 Nov 2005

The Chatham Daily News

Agent Orange also hits civilians: Class-action lawsuit grows as word spreads

by Grant LaFleche

THOROLD -- Like all tall tales, it grew in the telling. A story about
a dangerous chemical that makes Vietnam War veterans sick sprayed
over a Canadian army base some 40 years ago.

For decades, it was regarded as a myth among Canadian soldiers, who
knew only a skeletal outline of the story of Agent Orange being
sprayed at CFB Gagetown in New Brunswick.

But in dark tales of soldiers being used as unwitting lab rats were
bits of truth.

They might not have passed from myth to fact and become national news
were it not for a single dead soldier and a Kingston man with a
shrinking brain.

That Agent Orange and other herbicides containing chemicals toxic to
humans were used to clear dense forest at Gagetown was never an
official secret. It just wasn't well known. And those who did know
about it weren't talking. But in Kingston, there was one man who was.

Gordon Sellar was a retired brigadier general who commanded more than
1,000 soldiers at Gagetown in the 1960s.

He would later develop chronic lymphocytic leukemia, which he claimed
was caused by Agent Orange. He applied for compensation through
Veterans Affairs Canada.

In 2004, the federal government acknowledged the spraying of Agent
Orange had led to Sellar's illness and awarded his compensation.
Sellar died two weeks later.

It was the first domino to fall. Sellar's victory brought the issue
out in the open to the general public for the first time.

As Sellar pursued the government to accept his application, another
Kingston man had become convinced his three-decades struggle with a
list of health problems was caused by the toxic dioxin found in Agent
Orange.

Ken Dobbie, 57, worked at the CFB Gagetown as a teenager and says he
now gets tested for liver cancer -- one of the cancers associated
with high exposure to dioxin -- every three months.

That would seem like paranoia but for his list of health problems.

Dobbie says he suffers from nine serious illnesses, including
pancreatitis and diabetes. His doctors have told him he has sclerosis
of the liver, even though he doesn't drink. He has growths on his
thyroid.

Most bizarre, the frontal lobes of his brain have atrophied by 30 per
cent, resulting in blackouts, seizures and memory losses. He
sometimes has trouble telling left from right.

"It's scary. I am always in pain," he says. "They told me my brain
had atrophied. I mean, how does that happen? Nobody could understand
what caused this."

Dobbie was hired to work on the base through the Canada Youth Works
Program in 1966.

"There were about 500 kids that were hired altogether," Dobbie says.
"Some of the kids got jobs cutting the extensive lawns on the base,
some got jobs cleaning sewers, some got jobs cleaning the barracks.

"But the main project, the one I was involved in, was cutting and
burning the defoliated brush."

For the 10 years before Dobbie was hired, the military used powerful
herbicides to clear brush. At that time, the herbicide 2,4,5-T, which
can contain dioxin, was used extensively.

When Dobbie was hired to clear away brush killed by the herbicides,
the army was experimenting with Agent Orange, which contained 2,4,5-T.

Dobbie says the work crews were not issued protective gear because no
one knew about the toxins in the herbicides.

"You have to remember it was hot, sweaty, dirty work. We would strip
to the waist. I can remember the brush was sticky to the touch. It
was all dead and the best way I can describe it was that it smelled
metallic."

The crews would even eat lunch where they worked, he said.

As time went by, Dobbie's health slipped away. With each new aliment,
his frustration and that of his doctors grew.

Specialists began to suspect some of his problems were caused by some
kind of chemical exposure, but it wasn't until 1994, when he saw a
toxicologist about his atrophied brain, that he made the connection.

"One of things this doctor has you do is fill out a questionnaire and
one question is, had you ever worked with hazardous chemicals. Right
then, it clicked. Gagetown."

Dobbie has become the public face of those claiming they were harmed
by the spray programs.

He is the lead plaintiff in the class action suit against the
Department of National Defence claiming the use of agents Orange,
Purple and White damaged the health of soldiers, civilians and
surrounding properties.

The lawsuit has not yet been certified, but Dobbie's involvement has
earned him some attention in the national media.

His appearance on Canada A.M. this summer caused other former
Gagetown residents to come forward, including Thorold's Nancy Belfry.

She grew up at CFB Gagetown where her father was stationed in the
1960s and, like Dobbie, has struggled for decades with a strange
array of health problems.

"I really started to connect the dots when I saw Mr. Dobbie on
television," she says. "I thought, is this the cause of it all?"

Belfry's father has steadfastly refused to discuss anything about
Agent Orange, with the media or his daughter.

After hearing Dobbie's story, she turned to John Maloney, the MP for
Welland, for answers.

The first response was an e-mail from Maloney's assistant, who wanted
to give Belfry "some peace of mind" and assured her that agents
Purple and Orange were only tested in 1966 and 1967 and never on
humans.

Belfry, aware the Gagetown spray program dated back to 1956, was angry.

A later letter from Maloney himself, urging Belfry to have her father
provide information to a government fact finding mission in Gagetown,
didn't help.

"I just felt like, where is my government? Where were they in 1960,
'70, '80?," she says.

"They could have said years ago, 'If you lived there or were born
there, please get yourself checked out.' Or they could have said to
my father, 'You know, we did this, get yourself checked out.'

"But they didn't."

Frustrated with the pace at which answers were coming, Belfry signed
onto the class-action suit, joining about 120 others -- former
soldiers, civilian employees and residents of Gagetown.

Tony Merchant, the lawyer bringing the lawsuit forward, says he isn't
waiting for the government's inquiries to finish before going to
court.

"We are going forward as quickly as possible," he says.

Representatives from the Department of National Defence declined to
be interviewed for this story.

Instead, they referred to several documents about Agent Orange and
Gagetown on the Canadian Forces web page.

Those documents say the ongoing probe, which initially was to focus
on the spraying of agents Orange and Purple, has been expanded.

According to publicly released statements, the Defence Department is
looking back at herbicide spraying in Gagetown before 1956.

"It is also committed to identifying and reporting on facts
surrounding the use of all herbicides sprayed at Canadian Forces Base
(CFB) Gagetown from 1952 to present day," said a government news
release.

"This approach is based on historic and scientific research that will
gather a clear and consistent set of facts and allow the Government
of Canada to make responsible decisions on future action."

Testing of the soil at the base will begin shortly to try and find
traces of the defoliants, as will an attempt to track down all
personnel involved in the spray programs.

Belfry, who is waiting to see specialists about her health problems,
says the government needs to find answers quickly.

"Waiting for another attack of pancreatitis isn't fun," she says. "I
don't take summer holidays because I am afraid of what might happen
if I have an attack away from home.

"The bottom line is, I want answers."

_______________________________________________________

People on this forum like to have facts...
Fact 1    http://www.basegagetownandareafactfindersproject.ca/  was put online Oct3,2005 and lacks updates when we were told it would have information to allow us to 'see' what is being achieved. Check it out yourselves and ask yourself, Is this communication with the public? The fact-finding project has done nothing to advertise the website or the 1-800 phone # that they are so proud about...

Fact 2     
Ms. Karen Ellis: Just to link back, the question that you've just ended on connects back to what a couple of the other members had raised, which is what testing are we doing now. And, the sampling we've done for water, soil, and vegetation in the last couple of months doesn't tell you necessarily what happened 40 years ago or 30 years ago, but it will certainly tell you what's happened in recent years and if there's a cumulative effect from the recent spraying program.
This will take until 2007 to be completed... and the veterans will have to wait til then before a decision is made. this seems strange since the testing is for assertaining IF the area is safe for training at this time.. nothing for 40 years ago. The information is available NOW concerning what occurred at Gagetown yet the government is dragging their feet. At this moment, the Minister of Defense has just said in the House of Commons that the testing information is needed before this 'problem' can be recognized... hmmmmm ??

Fact 3    Minister DVA has just at this moment stated that
14 AgentOrange claims have been approved for DVA pension
14?  I am sure there were more than just 14 claims from just ill or dead BlackWatch members that were with Brig/Gen Sellar at the time of his accepted exposure...

IMO.. the year of the veteran that our Government has been so excited about was nothing but PR and lip service. The government has participated in 'ClawBacks' from military pensions ( http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/military.pension/
, has confiscated millions of dollars from the Military pension fund, and have lied and denied the Gagetown spraying for years. Veterans within Canada are treated with less respect than the Government gives criminals... Lately our prisons were given $700,000 to permit prisoners to obtain tatoos as one example.... On Monday, I for one will be cheering as the non-confidence vote is put forward in the House of Commons....
 
I am finding it rather facinating that DND staff are being protected from citizens of Canada... in that communications with the staff of our Defense Dept are screened... below is the response received when an email address was requested for Karen Ellis, Assistant Deputy Minister (Infrastructure and Environment)
National Defence.

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 10:00 AM
Subject: Contact request

Hello Mrs. *******,

Thank you for contacting the Department of National Defence.

Would you be able to provide us with more information as to the purpose or your request?  Mrs. Ellis is the Assitant Deputy Minister for Infrastructure and Environment.  If you need to reach her directly, we would be glad to give you her direct email address, provided we know the purpose of your query.

You may call her office at 613-945-7545.

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding!

Kind regards,

Dominique Boily
General Inquiries Officer, ADM (Public Affairs)
Officier aux renseignements généraux, SMA (Affaires Publiques)
tél: (613) 996-0255
fax: (613) 992-4739
Boily.D@forces.gc.ca


It is also facinating that our Military Members must not see criticism of an MP published in a base paper... A base newspaper says they can not print criticism since to print it would mean the paper agrees with it... don't they know they can add that by printing they are not necessarily agreeing but only keeping Members informed?

I am confused that our DND staff and Military Members need to be protected from citizens that try to use email or base newspapers to inform them of current events... and that THEY can only be exposed to the positive side of a story... I know the Members on this site are not adverse to keeping abreast of current events and even having some good discussion so that many points of view can be observed...
 
Miksam,

    Since you have been so critical of me in the past when I posted the truth to counter your view, let me be the first to tell you how the facts specifically the testing results are turning out at Gagetown.
  Thus far the digging up of so called barrels of Agent Orange have turned out to be nothing. No harmful levels of any samples from areas chosen by the vets who claim they saw barrels of AO dumped. Not even a harmful sample from the two areas were agent O was tested. All water samples are clear all soil is clear no barrels found.

Those are the facts.
 
Is the whole AO contraversy almost over yet? My father remembers when they were disputing that... I don't even know what to beleive, whether it is there or not... :-\
 
I am sorry you think I am so critical of you, 3rd Horseman, and thank you for your information. If you information is complete then I am pleased that future members will be safe from chemical exposure. Can you also inform me as to why this information, that you seem to have, will not be released to the public for 18 months? If all is complete, why is the Fact-Finding Project ongoing? Please don't get me wrong cause to have a clean training area is going to be great news, yet it does not change the facts that these chemicals were sprayed and did poison and kill many and did cause many years of suffering.

to answer MacKenzie's question... NO the contraversy is not over. It will continue until the government admits their error and the government still has not accepted any responsibility for what was done even when they are presented with their own documents that show the facts.. It seems science says that the Chemicals are deadly today but for some reason the government still maintains the same chemicals were not deadly when sprayed 30-50 years ago.. Does that make sense?  to know how things are progressing you can check the website for information at http://www.agentorangealert.com/pages/1/index.htm  and select the forum area....
 
Those comments are not complete just the preliminary results.

I totally agree with you that some (few I believe) have been harmed by this spray program, all the stories by the vets how they saw this or did that is making all of you loose credibility. The reality is that some of the spray crews are ill and need help and compensation. As for the military that served at Gagetown during the times in question it will be darn hard to show me or anyone that they where sprayed and harmed. As I said before just because DVA gave someone a pension does not mean it was right and now should be valid for all, they made a mistake and opened Pandora's box, how many COs ever went in the field in the 50s none! This the third investigation into the issue will end it once and for all. You should go after the Provincial Government and the parks services and the cities they sprayed it in your back yard school grounds and in the ditches. The amount that was sprayed at Gagetown did not harm anyone more than what was standard in the environment.
 
OK now I become critical. You are calling these vets liars?... you are saying Brig/Gen Sellar did not deserve his compensation? You made statement of fact, again, and now you say it is not completed? How can you make statements about something that all the results are not in yet?

(Sarcasm) I am so pleased to be discussing this topic with such an expert. A person with a scientific degree that finds his expertise is such that he can argue proven scientific facts. A person that is in the mix of things that they get preliminary results and from those can quote facts.

(back to the real world) The BlackWatch Battalion was onsite during the spraying and I am sure it can be agreed that they did not number 'only a few'. These sprayings took place from 56-84, I am sure there were more than 'some' or 'a few' in the area. Back to my complaint of how the government has/is handling this problem. It has nothing to do with the spraying itself, instead it is that the government has lied about facts and tryed to hide facts in an effort to NOT accept any responsibility for ANY that were killed or lost so many years of good health. Once again I say, you will not know until you walk in the shoes of the men that served at that time and instead of portraying youself as an expert please take the time to become educated as to what the facts might teach you.

I sometimes feel a bit disgusted that we are fighting so hard for the protection of members that are now serving and some of them come along and call us liars just as the government has done for years. We served and now are standing to serve again and we do it with pride and HONOUR.
 
I feel I owe an apology since sarcasm is not needed... I was lifted up by hearing what I accepted as a positive fact that the tests have shown a chemical free training area... I was so ready to accept that... this morning, to find out it was nothing but a rumour, I was angry and I think that showed in my last post and for that I am sorry...
 
MIKsam,

The areas tested so far have indeed showed up to be fine. There will be another independant contractor re-testing in the same areas, hopefully he will get the same results. The results from this first round of tests have been released to the media and have been published locally and discussed on the radio. I also watched a story on CBC about the round of tests by the first contractor and the update that two areas identified as possible burial grounds for drums have turned up nothing and testing there has been clean as well. I believe that these are the tests to which 3rd Horseman was referring.

Much more remains to be done however. Any idea on how many applications DVA has now received from Vets? And how many (besides the late BGen Sellars) that have actually been approved?

Anyway, my best for a merry Christmas and a wonderful New Year. Here's hoping that the New Year also brings about some definitive results and action for those who have been affected by spraying which occured.
 
Thankyou armyvern for the clarification.

To date I believe about 950 claims, it would appear only a handful (11 rings a bell) have been granted  a pension. But I caution all on the meaning of that, since pensions are private we don't know that they were granted for, could be AO could be something else, we only know they were granted. It would be nice to see the DVA wording on the BG Sellers pension, it may not be for AO in Gagetown it could be for AO in Vietnam during the observer mission of the early 70s. Or it could be for something associated with AO in Gagetown. Possibly it is for something completely different but aggravated by field time in Gagetown....? I would suggest printing it, then if it is valid, let all the soldiers of the Black Watch get it because if a CO got it for I would suggest never being near a blade of grass in the area other than to have tea and a sherry while watching the troops exercise then they all should get it.

  What I do know for fact is that my local neighbours who worked on the spray program are sick, it would appear that illness is associated with long term exposure to the spraying. They worked as mixers and nozzle holders during the project for years. They deserve a close look and IMHO compensation, but the soldiers who drove by the area or walked through it that is a stretch. More of a stretch is those that spent a day visiting from away up on base proper not even in the field making a claim.

  Heres to a resolution of this issue and people who don't know the details calling myself and my friends creators of a cover up and lier's to hide the truth. Instead in time they may say thankyou for always telling the truth about the issue and not covering anything up...{sorry we were wrong} it woud be nice to hear one day.
 
Hi...

I wanted to clear up a few things.

First of all, the testing program for finding if contamination exists is SERIOUSLY flawed. According to military document A-2004-00207 there are at least 20 dumpsites for the chemical barrels.

It is stated by DND that they used anywhere between 200 and 700 barrels each summer. The barrels were buried on site where they werre working any particular summer. DND states to the New Brunswick Cabinet that this happened for at least 20 years. Thus, there must be at least 20 dump sites. So why haven't these been identified by the military.

Another issue is that of the testing for Hexachlorobenzene....THERE ISN'T ANY!!!

If you read document A-2004-00207, which by the way has been verified by the Director of Freedom of Information for DND to be authored by DND, then you will see that of the 1.3 million litres of toxins that were sprayed. 1.1 million of that amount was Hexachlorobenzene. In additon, DND also srayed DRY chemical, in the amount of TWO MILLION POUNDS of Hexachlorobenzene.

Hexachlorobenzene is a proven Killer. The World Health Organization have listed it as a track one pollutant, meaning that it is carcinogenic and is not only a developmental toxicant but aslo affects many systems in the body such as the blood, bones, endocrine, immune, cirulatory, cardiac, gastrointestinal, neurological systems among other diseases and dysfunctions that it causes.

You DO NOT HAVE TO BE SPRAYED BY IT. You absorb it through your skin with contact with the soil or affected water. It does not go away. It stays in the environment and travels up the food chain quickly and it migrates through water supplies easily. IT has been found as deep as 45 feet. It will always be there in the soil and in the sediments of the rivers, lakes and streams.

DND has never uttered the word Hexachlorobenzene because they know that it is a deadly killer and they know that they sprayed almost 20 times more of it than they did of Dioxin.

Since Hexachlorobenze was sprayed almost 20 times as much as Dioxin, it doesn't take much to understand that this POP (persistant organic pollutant) has severely poisoned the training area. Since the government is not testing for Hexachlorobenzene, none will be found and everyone will go home happy.

You can't find something if you aren't looking for it.

Just another example of our DND screwing with the findings.

The problem is very clear. In a criminal investigation, the criminal is not the one who should be running the investigation.

Since DND is running this entire charade, it begs the question...why is the accused running the investigation???

Kenneth Dobbie
President
Agent Orange Association of Canada

Post your replies to www.agentorangealert.com so we can all see your opinions.
 
If you are going to point out facts get them right.

Hexachlorobenzene was and is not a specific agent that was sprayed at Gagetown as a specific herbicide. It is a by product of the wood and pulp industry that is used as a relatively inert filler in herbicides and insecticides and as a anti fungus agent on farmers seeds. In Gagetowns case it was used by the chem corps as a filler in the herbicide mix that was sprayed. No big conspiracy here unless you want to call the chem corps using it as a filler a conspiracy. You can get exposed to Hexachlorobenzene by burning trash or by using wood products that were sprayed with preservatives, you know your back deck, telephone pole, fence post and last but not least eating fish from rivers and lakes that have been contaminated by the pulp and paper industry....last but not least it is the anti fungus coating on the seeds local farmers use...etc. More Hexachlorobenzene has been placed in the Gagetown environment by the pulp mills and the burning of trash than the base sprayed as a filler product in the herbicide program.

Hexachlorobenzene breaks down in 2.5 to 7 years unless sprayed in aerosol form were it disappears almost entirely on application.

 
whoaaaa Horseman  WHOAAA!!!!!
Good gracious man you are taking this information sharing as a personal attack... Why don't you obtain the document that MrDobbie has mentioned and read it for yourself... MrDobbie put the document ID and its origin in his writeup so anyone can check on the FACTS that he is telling us about.
As for Hexachlorobenzene  being used as a spray, anyone can do a search online and read that info for themselves as well... and the harmful effects that can occur.
Once again I say that you are calling people liars and scientist liars and just your words do not make you an expert on such topics, it might be a good thing to REALLY learn the facts before opening your *mouth* and displaying a MR-KNOW-IT-ALL, with a lack of knowledge, when documents are given that show the facts...

On this topic, it is important that we ALL educate ourselves without shooting darts before checking out the data. I have obtained the document and I have read it.... HAVE YOU??
 
Horseman...

You are the one who had better get your facts straight!!!

You don't have the vaguest idea of what you are talking about. You sound like you have read a farmer's manual on anti-fungicides and the application of Hexachlorobenzene to destroy fungicides in farm crops.

I have read and extensively studied DND document A-2004-00207. I have studied the sprayings that were done at CFB Gagetown. I have studied documents from the World Health Organization, Health Canada, EPA, Stockholm Convention and so on and so on and so on...

Hexachlorobenzene was a specifc agent used extensively at CFB Gagetown, regardless of what you say and not only were there 1.1 million litres of it sprayed in liquid form, but there was an additonal two million pounds of dry Hexachlorobenzene sprayed during the same time frame of 20 years from 1965 to 1984. It is all in black and white produced by DND. Why don't you do yourself a favour and read it before you further your career as a horse's ass.

You shouldn't spout off about something you obviously know little about.

I was there. Were you??? I was poisoned by the stuff. Not only by working with it, but I also had hundreds of exposures over the years by being in contact with the poison. I have been sick for over 30 years.

My father was there, Sgt in the Cdn 2nd Battalion Black Watch. Prior to that in the British Black Watch, a war hero in the British 8th army, a desert rat with Montgomery against Rommel in North Africa, invasion of Sicily, invasion of Italy, D-Day at swordfish beach, battle of the ardennes, fighting hand to hand in germany against the herman goering troops, liberator of Belsen-Bergen, military police after the war guarding the nuremburg war criminals. He survived hell on earth only to be killed by cancer caused by peacetime sprayings of Dioxin and Hexachlorobenzene. 

Were you there?  If you had been you wouldn't make such stupid and uniformed opinions.

In the jargon of the sixties, ""get real, man!!!""...because you are definitely on another planet...

Kenneth Dobbie




 
Public hearings on Agent Orange tests at N.B. base on hold until February
Chris Morris, Canadian Press
Published: January 9, 2006

FREDERICTON -- A fact-finding mission on the use of Agent Orange and other toxic chemicals at a New Brunswick military base is facing another delay, this time because of the federal election.

Dennis Furlong, the newly appointed co-ordinator of the federal probe, said Friday that public hearings on spray programs at Canadian Forces Base Gagetown won't be held until February, following the Jan. 23 vote.

Furlong, who was appointed in November after the previous co-ordinator stepped aside, said it's clear from his initial review of material that there has been misunderstanding and miscommunication about spraying at the sprawling base.

Furlong said testing of Agent Orange and other toxic herbicides by the U.S. military was limited to only several days in 1966 and 1967. He said most of the public concern appears to be focused on annual herbicide spray programs at the base, which have occurred almost every year since 1956.

"Although it is called the Agent Orange issue, it is more about the annual herbicide spray which had some of the same chemicals in it as Agent Orange," he said.

"The implications of the annual spray are far greater than the implications of the testing of the chemical Agent Orange done in a controlled fashion in 1966 and 1967."

Hundreds of veterans and civilians who live near the base claim their health was harmed by spraying.

Canadian military officials say the Agent Orange tests were confined to a relatively small and remote area at Gagetown and lasted only a few days. Those tests have been common knowledge since the early 1980s.

Veterans and concerned residents have complained about the length of time the federal probe is taking. It's expected the inquiry will take at least another year and a half.

Gloria Sellar of Kingston, Ont., who says her husband died from complications related to Agent Orange exposure while stationed at Gagetown in the 1960s, said people are suffering and dying while Ottawa takes its time.

"It's a pity, but of course they have been in denial for a long time," she said of federal officials.

"They are looking for remnants of barrels and things at the base, but the fact is the soldiers who were there are the remnants and they need help urgently."

Sellar's husband, Gordon, died of leukemia shortly after he received medical compensation for exposure to Agent Orange.

The results of the inquiry, which will include an examination of health trends in areas around the military base, will guide Ottawa in deciding pension and compensation claims.
 
This is a bit political but also follows this thread... I did say I would keep this thread informed of up-dates

DVA has rejected my husbands claim of exposure to chemicals sprayed at CFB Gagetown(letter dated Jan12), which has not surprised me... BlackWatch members, that have no problem proving they were located in Gagetown during the spraying of chemicals are also receiving rejections. My only comment is that I am seeing DVA clearing off their desks, sending rejections and preparing to start off the new government with a clean slate. Well, those desks are NOT clean. The ghosts of claims will haunt DVA for a very long time and meanwhile tax dollars will be gobbled up as all these rejection letters lead so many into the appeal phase.

In the rejection letter I received, it is noted that the government is still steadfastly holding to 7 days of spraying during Jun66 and Jun67.
Based on information provided by the Department of National Defense, it is known that small scale testing of defoliants, including Agent Orange, was carried out for very short periods at CFB Gagetown in June 1966 and June 1967
It would seem that DND has not fully informed DVA by including ALL information concerning these sprayings.
DVA also noted that my husbands files do not show him as being posted in CFB Gagetown but show instead that he was posted in CFB Chatham during the times listed on his claim. hmmmmm?.. They were told that on his claim!

Point being that his claim was submitted over a year ago and any information that is covered in the rejection letter was known since mid Jun2005 when DND was pushed to admit that spraying occurred. (DND did choose to only accept Jun66 Jun67 as they attempted to limit the fallout of this disaster). I guess the rejection letter took 6 months to write. Having said that and having knowledge of other rejection letters, it appears that DVA are using a preprepared form letter with a couple fo paragraphs modified to fit each person. 400 claims(at last count), 4 accepted - 2 (it seems 2 claims were for members that actually served in Vietnam) shows that DND&DVA have not intended to take this matter seriously, in my opinion.

Hopefully a new government will actually work together to acknowledge those that served their country and were poisoned and killed by those they served. I know I intend to take advantage of all appeals available. My husband, along with MANY others,  deserve respect not rejection by the country they served...
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11037756/
Court rules against U.S. firms on Agent Orange
S. Korea court orders companies to pay $62M over Vietnam War-era use
 
Updated: 5:50 a.m. ET Jan. 26, 2006
SEOUL, South Korea - A South Korean court on Thursday ordered two U.S. manufacturers of the defoliant Agent Orange to pay $62 million in medical compensation to South Korean veterans of the Vietnam War and their families.

The Seoul High Court ordered Dow Chemical in Midland, Mich., and Monsanto Company in St. Louis to pay the compensation to about 6,800 people. It was the first time a South Korean court has ruled in favor of victims of Agent Orange.
“It is acknowledged ... the defendants failed to ensure safety as the defoliants manufactured by the defendants had higher levels of dioxins than standard,” the court said in its ruling.

South Koreans made up the largest foreign contingent of U.S. allies fighting in Vietnam, contributing some 320,000 troops. South Korea lost 5,077 soldiers and suffered 10,962 wounded.
South Koreans, Vietnamese and many U.S. veterans blame a variety of illnesses on exposure to Agent Orange, including miscarriages, birth defects, cancers and nervous disorders.
Official U.S. records show the U.S. military sprayed 19 million gallons of herbicide over southern Vietnam between 1962 and 1971 to destroy jungle cover for communist troops. About 55 percent of that was Agent Orange.
 
JAN 30, 2006
CBC NEWS, FREDERICTON (1808 - 2:30)
 
Citizens investigating chemical use at CFB Gagetown
CBC: A group of citizens is now part of a team investigating the use
of chemicals at CFB Gagetown. The federal government has started
looking into who may have been exposed over the years, what was
sprayed where and the possible health effects. The citizens will
serve on advisory panels overseeing the investigations. Don Dickson
has more.

DON DICKSON (Reporter): This was the first chance for eight citizens
who will serve on two advisory panels to find out exactly what's
expected of them and how they can help answer questions about
chemical spraying on Base Gagetown and who may have been hurt by it.

KAREN ELLIS (DND deputy-minister): But what we thought would be
useful would be to have some people with different types of
expertise on the advisory panels who can really ask us questions as
we brief on the tasks and sometimes people can bring insights or
questions or say, 'Have you thought of this? Have you thought of
that?' so that we can be flexible and open throughout the process.
And if some interesting questions are brought to bear we might be
able to make some adjustments to the task to make sure they really
get us what we need.

DICKSON: The Department of Defence deputy-minister Karen Ellis co-
chairs the fact-finding task force with former New Brunswick Health
Minister Dr. Dennis Furlong. Initial concerns about spraying on the
base focused on the testing of Agent Orange in the 1960's but now
the focus is on any chemicals used on the base dating back to the
early 1950's.

DR. DENNIS FURLONG (Fact-finding co-chair): Yes, there's lots of
information. It's like a supermarket, there's lots of food in there
but you still have to go shopping.

DICKSON: That's Furlong's answer to those who complain the
investigation is taking too long when much information is already
available in government documents.

WAYNE CARDINAL (Veteran): And this was a challenge that was there
and I said it was time that the...my fellow soldiers and civilians
who were exposed to this had somebody fighting for them.

DICKSON: Veteran Wayne Cardinal is on an advisory panel. He's on
medication for numerous conditions he believes may be linked to his
duty on the base in the 1960's.

CARDINAL: I must admit I've been impressed so far with everything
that's went on. I really feel they are trying to do the correct
political thing for both the people and the military involved,
answer the questions, get it done and just make sure that something
of this larger scale---and people do not realize how large a scale
this is---doesn't happen again.

CBC: The investigation is focused on soldiers and civilian employees
of the base but part of the investigation is centered on health
matters and Dr. Furlong says that could come up with information
suggesting the exposure of off-base civilians as well.

Don Dickson, CBC News, Fredericton.

Agent Orange promises by Stephen Harper
CBC: On the East coast, people exposed to Agent Orange at CFB
Gagetown are hopeful again that they'll be compensated for some
after decades of waiting. The committee looking into the spray of
the toxic herbicide is back at work. But even more encouraging are
the promises of Canada's new Prime Minister Stephen Harper. Sarah
Trainer has more.

REPORTER: On the campaign trail, Conservative leader Stephen Harper,
made a specific promise for CFB Gagetown. A week and a half before
the election Harper pledges free medical testing for veterans who
believe they were hurt by herbicide spraying at the base, and he had
this promise for those exposed to defoliant spraying.

STEPHEN HARPER: The Conservative government will stand up for full
and fair compensation for persons exposed to defoliant spraying
during the period from 1956 to 1984. We'll disclose all information
concerning the spraying to veterans and civilians.

REPORTER: Dennis Furlong is leading the investigation of herbicide
use at CFB Gagetown. He says the fact finding process is committed
to openness.

DENNIS FURLONG: The whole process is to instill into the people of
Canada and the people of the area that the skepticism that was
surrounding this historically will be allayed because of the
openness and the independence of my office to try to get the answers
necessary.

REPORTER: In light of Harper's promise for compensation to all those
exposed to herbicide spraying, Furlong was asked whether his
committee's work will change. He has decided to adopt a wait and see
strategy. Furlong says there are plans to brief the new defence
minister on the task force progress and they'll find out at that
point how much work is left to do.

Sarah Trainor, CBC News, CFB Gagetown.

HURRY HURRY after 6 months they have to hurry so they can brief the new Minister of Defense with information showing they have done something... Meetings are once again scheduled for February and I am awaiting info on the expertise they have on their citizens advisory council. Being a member of the AOAC (AgentOrangeAssociation of Canada), I have not heard of any of our members being approached to be included. This is still not an open and 'transparent' investigation, With a Deputy Minister of Defense as co-chair, it is still under the control of DND and much data will remain hidden. That is my opinion... Sandy/MIKsam
 
FEB 01, 2006
CTV NEWS, MARITIMES (1817 - 3:00)
 


The spraying of herbicides at CFB Gagetown

CTV: Prime Minister-designate Stephen Harper will be sworn in as
Canada's 22nd prime minister next Monday and that has some Maritime
military veterans hopeful that their long fight is going to near an
end. The veterans want answers about herbicide use at CFB Gagetown
and compensation for exposure to the deadly chemicals. CTV's Andy
Campbell has the very latest.

ANDY CAMPBELL: Wayne Cardinal is one of thousands of veterans who say
exposure to defoliants has made him sick. Cardinal is a retired
soldier who spent much of his career at CFB Gagetown where herbicides
containing deadly dioxins were used to kill vegetation. He's
confident the incoming prime minister will live up to a campaign
promise to provide answers and compensation.

WAYNE CARDINAL (Veteran): There is enough information out there now
that some of this stuff could be fast-tracked to a certain level and
if he puts it through council and handles it right I think, I truly
think they'll do that.

CAMPBELL: On January 11 during a campaign rally in Woodstock Harper
made a commitment former Gagetown soldiers and their families had
been waiting months to hear.

STEPHEN HARPER (During the campaign): A Conservative government will
stand up for full and fair compensation for persons exposed to
defoliant spraying during the period of 1956 to 1984.

CAMPBELL: Harper also promised to disclose details of the spraying
program. It was enough to bring John Chisholm to tears. He' s hoping
Harper's promise means an immediate change in Veterans Affairs
policies that have frustrated Chisholm and others for years, policies
that have put the onus of proof on the veterans,

JOHN CHISHOLM (Veteran): We know you were there but how do you
associate the spraying with where you're at now even though we know
you're sick?


CAMPBELL: Chisholm is expecting action soon. He says something should
happen within a matter of weeks of Harper and the Conservatives
officially taking control in Ottawa. Chisholm says Harper's promise
was only a step and he'll be doing everything he can to ensure that
pledge becomes reality.

CHISHOLM: I'll be just like a thorn in his side until such time that
we're compensated because we're not going to let go.

CAMPBELL: And veterans from this area will meet the Conservative Greg
Thompson, the MP for New Brunswick Southwest tomorrow before he heads
off to Ottawa for the official change of power on Monday and Peter,
there's widespread speculation here and in Ottawa that because of
Thompson's work on the defoliant spray file that he is the odds-on
candidate to become the next Minister of Veterans Affairs.

CTV: Thank you Andy.

CAMPBELL: You're welcome.

CTV: CTV's Andy Campbell live tonight from Fredericton.
 
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