The brown Temperate Combat Boot (AKA: Mk IV Cbt Boot) - No longer CADPAT

[Good2Golf]

I can't remember if this was brought up or answered before, but since this is going to be the flying boot as well, wouldn't having synthetic uppers that melt quickly be a bad thing on an airplane?  (Same argument would probably apply to LAVs/tanks)

A valid concern, Dimsum, although the risk would be mitigated partially by being generally covered with double Nomex from the lower leg/cuff of the flying suit.  In my younger days as a Group (before 1 CAD) ALSEO, we conducted risk assessments on a number of difference flying (and armd crewing) clothing issues and there were items like boots that we determined the 'best' was full leather, but that multilayer synthetics were reasonable in flash test...ironically, it was non-FR laces that posed the greatest problem, even in full leather boots, as when the laces burned through, the boot would no longer stay on one's foot.  We procured a rather large quantity of Matterhorns and Danners in the mid/late-90's and when we tried to also procure several thousands of paris of Nomex laces, we ran into systemic difficulties that seemed more difficult than surviving inside a fireball.  Even the current Aircrew version of the GP doesn't have nomex laces...go figure.

cheers
G2G

 

[Infanteer]

Boot looks good enough - we'll see how they fit.  That being said, I do relish the thought of getting rid of 2 sets of boots for this single set.  Issue a set of NEOs (I know the CLS was prodded on them after seeing one of his Bdes, from Private soldier to Bde Comd, decked out in them) and you can get rid of WWBs as well.

 

[REDinstaller]

NEOS are excellent, but if you are in the top end of sizing for them as i am it gets to be complicated trying to wear them. I can only wear boots that aren't welted in them. So my matterhorns end up being a sunny day boot, where as the magnums are my sole NEOS compatible boots. Being a sz 15 really sucks.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I've finally given up on the CF being able to produce anything that will not cause hand size blisters on the soles of my feet and all my toenails to shed, and invested in a pair of Lowa Combat GTX.
http://www.lowaboots.com/catalog/ShowBoot.cfm?StockNum=2118800999&Category=8&Type=M

I've done a few hours of tabbing over hills with about 60lbs on and, right out of the box, they are frickin' excellent ....

 

[Wolf117]

Those look pretty comfortable.  I've been wearing the Rocky SV2 for a few years now.  On both tours to Kandahar and a black version back in Canada.  For me they are the most comfortable and durrable combat boot I've had. I also find my agility and stamina is superior in them when compared to Mk3 vibramed or the GP boots.  The contour of the sole make them almost like Merrel style hiking boots.  It's nice when your leg muscles are focusing their energy solely on pushing you forward instead of fighting the clunkyness of the GP style soles.

I really wish the boot replacement program was taking into account troops' experiences in the field and new developments in design and manufacturing practices.  The hockey puck style soles may work well in a vehicle or in an office, however, when your job requires you to move fast over long distances by foot, you had better believe you learn fast what works and what fumbles.
Not to sound arrogant, but I really wish they'd make a seperate boot for field troops.  Or at least make something the lives up to our standards.

 

[lawandorder]

Why switch the colour of the boot?  What is wrong with a black boot?  The new boot looks a little on the heavy side, but will be hard to tell until you actually touch and feel it in real life.

 

[OldSolduer]

Why switch the colour of the boot?  What is wrong with a black boot?  The new boot looks a little on the heavy side, but will be hard to tell until you actually touch and feel it in real life.

Black does not blend into the surroundings as well as brown does.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Black does not blend into the surroundings as well as brown does.

I also (painfully) recall the difference between wearing black and brown boots in hot climates. Black, of course, soaks up more radiation and is therefore much warmer!

 

[REDinstaller]

Too true, nothing like wool socks in a hot leather boot in july.

 

[McG]

Why switch the colour of the boot?  What is wrong with a black boot?  The new boot looks a little on the heavy side, but will be hard to tell until you actually touch and feel it in real life.

Black does not blend into the surroundings as well as brown does.

Actually, it is also because black was found to contrast too much with the rest of the uniform.  Back when CADPAT was still new, there were many studies on why soldiers are seen and one conclusion was contrast between uniform and several items of solid black equipment (rifle, boots, gloves, etc). 

Brown was chosen because it is the one colour common to both temperate and arid.  Therefore, all boots can be made in brown and soldiers can pick their preference between any style issued boot in any given natural environment regardless of which combat uniform is worn.

 

[Armymedic]

I've finally given up on the CF being able to produce anything that will not cause hand size blisters on the soles of my feet and all my toenails to shed, and invested in a pair of Lowa Combat GTX.
http://www.lowaboots.com/catalog/ShowBoot.cfm?StockNum=2118800999&Category=8&Type=M

I've done a few hours of tabbing over hills with about 60lbs on and, right out of the box, they are frickin' excellent ....

Awesome boot. Pity it is more than the CF can afford to give us.

Why switch the colour of the boot?  What is wrong with a black boot?  The new boot looks a little on the heavy side, but will be hard to tell until you actually touch and feel it in real life.

We need to break the tradition of the "black boot" for anything but dress uniforms. There is no good specific reason to keep, and several already listed here against, a black boot for our combat uniform.

In a few years, we'll talk about the reason why we wore black boots being the same as why farmers painted their barns red:

Because, at first it was the cheapest, but then it was what everyone did.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Awesome boot. Pity it is more than the CF can afford to give us.

The 'F' in Infantry stands for 'Footborne' (and sometimes other words that are not suitable for a G rated audience).

How can we NOT make that kind of investment in the most basic and vitally important piece of personal kit - yes, I'd say that boots are the most improtant piece of personal kit - when we're quite happy spending bejillions on tanks, planes etc?

I wore them again yesterday on a short workout... my feet are still smiling.  ;D

The issued socks work well with them, by the way, so we wouldn't have to start from scratch if we wanted to save our aching feet, and reduce casualty rates.

 

[Loachman]

Pity it is more than the CF can afford to give us.

With all of the money that's been dumped into crappy boots over the last few years, buying a decent, quality, modern boot in the first place probably would have saved a bundle.

 

[MikeL]

When the CF officially makes the move to wear brown boots and issues them out, I wonder what rules there will be for those who have boot chits/buy their own boots.  Will we be allowed to wear desert/tan boots, or will they have to be brown? 

 

[Loachman]

There's got to be some spray paint that's close.

If spray paint is good enough for parade boots and dress Oxfords, it'll be good enough for combat boots.

 

[daftandbarmy]

There's got to be some spray paint that's close.

If spray paint is good enough for parade boots and dress Oxfords, it'll be good enough for combat boots.

I think I've just heard the souls of ten thousand dead Guardsmen scream out in horror. 

 

[aesop081]

I'm sure that when the switch is final, there will be several enterprising manufacturers ready and willing to sell us all better brown non-issued boots.

Bates boots, i would like a pair of brown M9s with side-zip, size 9 please...........

 

[REDinstaller]

No doubt this will be a long term phase in, vice a short term solution.

 

[Wolf117]

The 'F' in Infantry stands for 'Footborne' (and sometimes other words that are not suitable for a G rated audience).

How can we NOT make that kind of investment in the most basic and vitally important piece of personal kit - yes, I'd say that boots are the most improtant piece of personal kit - when we're quite happy spending bejillions on tanks, planes etc?

I wore them again yesterday on a short workout... my feet are still smiling.  ;D

The issued socks work well with them, by the way, so we wouldn't have to start from scratch if we wanted to save our aching feet, and reduce casualty rates.

Very good point, the boot is as important to an infantryman as a tank is to a armoured soldier.

Which is why I wish they'd just issue a different higher quality boot for infantry and field troops.  If they wanted to save money that is.  Or else design a new boot that lives up to our standards.  OR and this is a big or, buy a boot that is already in use by our troops overseas (bought on our own dollars in most cases).  It seems like a big waste of money for us to have a research and development program to re-design the wheel when there are already more durrable and comfortable and vastly more advanced products out there thanks to industry.  There's a reason the CANSOFCOM guys get kit allowances to buy commercial combat gear, IT'S BETTER THAN WHAT WE ISSUE!

 

[George Wallace]

........ There's a reason the CANSOFCOM guys get kit allowances to buy commercial combat gear, IT'S BETTER THAN WHAT WE ISSUE!

I would say "Prove it!"  In some cases, it may be better, but is it safer?  Does it meet the safety requirements in the ways of fire protection/heat protection/impact protection.  Gucci kit is not always better, even if it looks good/better/kool.  There are safety standards that have to be met, and that is what the majority of the CF have to meet.  This is also why testing is so long and drawn out.  Then comes contracting out for mass production and of course we must not forget "Quality Control".  Just because you can't get the Gucci kit you want, doesn't mean that what you do get is garbage.